Curse

Sagittario · Mar 31, 2011, 05:40 PM // 17:40

I've been trying many team build and strategies, but the last one seems to be very good. I'd like to someone else try it and post his opinion as well as some advice to improve it.

Codes:
Me - OACjAiiMpStllTfT+gXTQTVT0gA Link (Asuran r8, Kurz r8, SS r10)
Kahmu - OgCjkurLLOA4BM3Xcndvua31LA [Link]
Master - OANDUshvSyBVBoBbh3V1DBEVVA [Link]
Gwen - OQBDAqwDO0gpnpLHkBICL/RI [Link]
Norgu - OQBDAawDSvAIgrA5ZkALfZAEBA [Link]
Vekk - OghkowMaoIiDdbs20M2MTcBt4iB [Link]
Hayda - OQOiYyo8YGtwh/ecNeH7ul3A [Link]
Tahlkora - OwUUMs2+EITNgXEdRVEfP9AZAMEA [Link]

I've tried many variants, but still derv and para need a little help.

mage767 · Mar 31, 2011, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Put fragility in the ineptitude mesmer.

Sagittario · Mar 31, 2011, 06:44 PM // 18:44

I put Fragility instead of Clumsiness. Do you have better idea?

BrettM · Mar 31, 2011, 07:24 PM // 19:24

As the only para in the group, Hayda is going to have a hard time maintaining Aggressive Refrain between battles. If you don't micro AR, then Hayda will cast it every time it is recharged as soon as she has 25e built up, even if AR is still up from the last use. If you do micro it, then she may not always cast Anthem of Weariness to keep it up between battles, so you will have to re-cast AR before going into battle. Fall Back has too long a cooldown to keep AR up and I don't believe heroes will use ToF out of battle, though I might be wrong.

This means that she will often be drained of energy, particularly at the start of a battle, and this is a very energy-intensive build you've chosen.

Since there are no attack skills on the bar, the only member in the party who will benefit from Anthem of Weariness is Kahmu, who already has Staggering Force on his bar. So, you are basically using a skill slot for the sole purpose of keeping AR up.

On MoW's bar, you can drop SoLS in favor of Putrid Bile. Foes should be dying fast enough that SoLS is not necessary. However, for an AotL MB, I prefer OANDUsldSyBVBoBKgLCJgGNoRA [Link]. This provides a good bit of healing and excellent condition removal, allowing you to drop Empathic Removal from Hayda's bar to have more flexibility in fixing her build.

Let Tahlkora handle the prots, since it makes no sense to have her running 11 Healing just to power a single spell. Again, let MoW handle the condition removal, freeing up the slot used for Mend Ailment. If you need more condition removal than that, put Spirit's Gift on your own bar. Armor of Unfeeling on a channeling bar is generally not necessary.

Maybe it's just me, but Siphon Spirit just looks so very, very wrong on an ele bar. GoLE makes more sense to me. Heroes are not very good about moving around to siphon a different spirit each time, so you may be overestimating the energy return Vekk will get out of it. The main purpose of Gaze of Fury is to take out enemy spirits, which does not require any investment in Channeling at all, and you will be much better off to put those points back into Energy Storage.

I am curious, though, why you want to base a whole PvE team on the concept of conditions? Doing damage directly is a lot faster and more efficient than trying to degen everything to death.

Outerworld · Mar 31, 2011, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

I am curious, though, why you want to base a whole PvE team on the concept of conditions? Doing damage directly is a lot faster and more efficient than trying to degen everything to death.

Assuming Fragility is in the team, the piled up conds can add up too a fair amount of damage.

mortenya · Mar 31, 2011, 07:32 PM // 19:32

i'm pretty sure para heroes will cast anthem of flame on CD most of the time if they have the energy.

Sagittario · Mar 31, 2011, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortenya

i'm pretty sure para heroes will cast anthem of flame on CD most of the time if they have the energy.

Yes, Anthem of Flame guarantees maintaining AR. She casts it every 10 sec.
But only Kahmu is effected. Spirits nor minions aren't. Do you know what similar does?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Since there are no attack skills on the bar, the only member in the party who will benefit from Anthem of Weariness is Kahmu, who already has Staggering Force on his bar. So, you are basically using a skill slot for the sole purpose of keeping AR up.

Don't forget the spirits are effected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

On MoW's bar, you can drop SoLS in favor of Putrid Bile. Foes should be dying fast enough that SoLS is not necessary. However, for an AotL MB, I prefer OANDUsldSyBVBoBKgLCJgGNoRA [Link]. This provides a good bit of healing and excellent condition removal, allowing you to drop Empathic Removal from Hayda's bar to have more flexibility in fixing her build.

Let Tahlkora handle the prots, since it makes no sense to have her running 11 Healing just to power a single spell. Again, let MoW handle the condition removal, freeing up the slot used for Mend Ailment. If you need more condition removal than that, put Spirit's Gift on your own bar. Armor of Unfeeling on a channeling bar is generally not necessary.

Since Tahlkora is the only healer and UA, she needs some energy help. I'm not sure she's really able to heal the entire party and cast prots effectively.
And are sure Master does use Dwayna's sorrow on minions instead of party members?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Maybe it's just me, but Siphon Spirit just looks so very, very wrong on an ele bar. GoLE makes more sense to me. Heroes are not very good about moving around to siphon a different spirit each time, so you may be overestimating the energy return Vekk will get out of it. The main purpose of Gaze of Fury is to take out enemy spirits, which does not require any investment in Channeling at all, and you will be much better off to put those points back into Energy Storage.

People advised me this a month ago when I asked and noone told it's bad. But I'll try. Sounds it will work better.

Chthon · Mar 31, 2011, 08:27 PM // 20:27

I'm not sure if a condition based team is going to be a worthwhile idea at all, but, if it is, then Fragility and Reap Impurities are probably "must haves."

Sagittario · Mar 31, 2011, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I'm not sure if a condition based team is going to be a worthwhile idea at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

I am curious, though, why you want to base a whole PvE team on the concept of conditions? Doing damage directly is a lot faster and more efficient than trying to degen everything to death.

Why do many paragons dislike imba? Because it's BORING!
Finding new exciting ways makes the game much more fun.
People love making new builds, trying them and fixing.
Especially when it works. (And it really has so far.)

That's the reason.

majoho · Mar 31, 2011, 09:20 PM // 21:20

I've been making my own condition team and it looks very different, one suggestion I have would be to replace "Aura of the Lich" with "Virulence", and put "Epidemic" on one of the mesmers.

Xenomortis · Mar 31, 2011, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Why do you not have Fevered Dreams in there?
And don't take Virulence. Disease isn't worth your elite and it's got a stupid recharge anyway.

Outerworld · Mar 31, 2011, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Why do you not have Fevered Dreams in there?
And don't take Virulence. Disease isn't worth your elite and it's got a stupid recharge anyway.

I was under the impression heroes were no good with FD.

BrettM · Mar 31, 2011, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagittario

Yes, Anthem of Flame guarantees maintaining AR. She casts it every 10 sec.

Except when she doesn't. When the team is moving, she may skip it if she's falling too far behind on a long run between groups, at which point she loses AR. And she will fall behind on a long run if she has to stop every 10 seconds to shout. I really think you'd be better off to replace Empathic Removal with something like Soldier's Fury or Focused Anger and drop AR. Paras are wonderful energy-making machines, but only if they start out with enough energy to get that first shout off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagittario

And are sure Master does use Dwayna's sorrow on minions instead of party members?

Absolutely sure. I've been using this build for a long time, and you can see the little healing numbers popping up on the party every time a minion dies. It's about the best use for Dwayna's I've ever seen. The great thing is that all the minions cluster around him, so he only has to cast it on one to enchant all of them. I wish Death Nova worked the same way.

Xenomortis · Mar 31, 2011, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

I was under the impression heroes were no good with FD.

They use it and use it fairly early. And when you have so many conditions that are going to be applied in a fairly staggered fashion, you can get away with reasonably poor use.

Edit: Keep the prots on Master of Whispers - he has the energy for them. Prots on a monk with only 3 pips of regen is asking for trouble.
Tahlk can take Dwayna's Sorrow no problem though (and since she'll have higher Healing Prayers it makes a lot more sense).

majoho · Mar 31, 2011, 10:08 PM // 22:08

What are you talking about?

Virulence has the same recharge as most elite spells like the mesmer elites (panic, ineptitude) also heroes seem to use it better than Fevered dreams in my experience - my fevered dream hero never casts fevered dreams first.

My current MM is using Virulence, mobs will be bleeding from the shambling horrors so he will cast it and use Epidemic if any other mobs are near - easy way to get 3 extra conditions on several mobs and with a long duration.

Xenomortis · Mar 31, 2011, 10:10 PM // 22:10

So you bring an elite that Poisons and Weakens a single target (once every 15 seconds) and also inflicts Disease? Poison is redundant (you have Death Nova) and Weakness is easy to bring with Enfeebling Blood. So you now have an elite that inflicts Disease.
It's shit.

majoho · Mar 31, 2011, 10:24 PM // 22:24

I guess you are the expert.

The thing is just that Virulence+Epidemic works better than Fevered Dreams.

Xenomortis · Mar 31, 2011, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

I guess you are the expert.

The thing is just that Virulence+Epidemic works better than Fevered Dreams.

I fail to see how when one can repeatedly inflict Dazed and has a much larger AoE than the one that doesn't inflict Dazed.
Well, I can see how it might get a better spread of Weakness in the hands of heroes (like I give a damn about Poison and Disease) but if I cared about that I'd take Enfeebling Blood which is better then Virulence by a long way.

majoho · Mar 31, 2011, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Well in theory you are right I'm not arguing that, but heroes just don't do it the right way in my experience.

I have run a hero with Fevered dreams as well and most of the time he will be casting conditions on the mobs before casting fevered dreams.

(I gave him Fevered Dreams, Weaken armor, Enfeebling Blood, Accumulated Pain and Fragility).

Xenomortis · Apr 01, 2011, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Don't give him the conditions (well, you can give him Accumulated since he'll want hexes on the target first).