Curse

Bront · May 07, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

I tried something like that in another thread, and got shot down, mostly because the orders and DF need to be spammed readily. I've yet to try any of them in actual play though.

As for Sabs+Racs, bring a monk friend with Sabs, and take Racs, and you're good

I have found that Barbs and Mark of Pain work well with paragons though. (not on them though)

Mr Pink57 · May 07, 2008, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

Since I'm not a big fan of the D/N orders (Never had any luck with it) I've been toying with the N/Rt healer to modify it to fit in with the paragons and still add extra damage.

This is my current attempt:

[build prof=n/rt box name="Restoring Orders" blood=9+1+2 soulreaping=9+1 restoration=12][weapon of remedy][ghostmirror light][spirit light][mend body and soul][life][signet of lost souls][dark fury][order of pain][/build]

Done a couple areas in Ascalon in HM, couple dungeons, both NM and HM and does pretty good for itself.

Been toying around with the elite though-tried [spirit light weapon] which my hero never used. Tried [preservation] tonight-that did okay, but felt a little random in it's healing. You can also knock SR down 1 and add it to Blood for extra damage and should still be good on energy.

So far it feels a lot more stable than the OotV Restorer I posted earlier.

I'd take masochism over SoLS since you will be sac'ing from your two enchants.

Problem with builds like this is:
1. Lower AL then derv with windwalkers (up to 90AL base)
2. I find they try to heal after every sac which reduces the spam of OoP and DF.

With the derv they basically set Zeal and go to work and occasionally cast DTouch. This character with Windwalkers and max enchants becomes the highest AL person on the team.

EDIt: Might be better to go Channeling and make the character full offense. Putting out things like Splinter, AR, and Nightmare weapon to really help a full physical team.

pink

Racthoh · May 07, 2008, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pink57

1. Lower AL then derv with windwalkers (up to 90AL base)

That's generally only an issue for the first few seconds of the fight until SY goes up. I have my hero with Survivors since the AI generally targets whoever has the lowest health, giving me enough time to build an SY before the D/N's health level dips low enough to attract the AI. At which point it doesn't matter who is being attacked because everyone is reaping the +100.

Quote:

2. I find they try to heal after every sac which reduces the spam of OoP and DF.

This is key when making the core of the hero work. The OoP and DF spam is what you're looking to achieve. Order of Pain means things are dying faster, Dark Fury means SY is up longer and your other physicals get to rock faces. The D/N build concept is genius; the spam fuels the healing.

Quote:

Might be better to go Channeling and make the character full offense. Putting out things like Splinter, AR, and Nightmare weapon to really help a full physical team.

I use this when I Urgoz:

[Splinter Support;OAhkQoGbYIqEGjhwkwcwWQV1W4FD]
Minor Blood on the hat and pop a conset naturally.

Madeentje · May 07, 2008, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I use this when I Urgoz:

[Splinter Support;OAhkQoGbYIqEGjhwkwcwWQV1W4FD]
Minor Blood on the hat and pop a conset naturally.

Maybe put Well of the profane in there, since that character is not really used as a healing character anyway, and the enchantment stripping is great vs evil raptors or just any enchantment blocking...

EDIT : Forgot Profane was in Death magic, though you don't need a high investment for it to be useful.

Richardt · May 07, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pink57

I'd take masochism over SoLS since you will be sac'ing from your two enchants.

Mascochism is an interesting choice-I'll try that tonight.

Quote:

Problem with builds like this is:
1. Lower AL then derv with windwalkers (up to 90AL base)

You can make this argument about any healer

Basically I counter this by keeping her flagged behind the paras, but still in range for the shouts. And once SY! goes up, the difference between 190 armor and a 160 armor isn't much.

Quote:

2. I find they try to heal after every sac which reduces the spam of OoP and DF.

Actually my necro hero does pretty good keeping everything up. One of the reasons I'm experimenting with Preservation is that it's the same amount of healing as some of the Restoration skills, and the necro doesn't have to cast them-just drop the spirit and go.

Quote:

EDIt: Might be better to go Channeling and make the character full offense. Putting out things like Splinter, AR, and Nightmare weapon to really help a full physical team.

This is what we normally do if we have the healing already covered. Or I set her with OotV with some curses support (things like Bards and Weaken Armor-anything that complements the physicals).

[DE] · May 07, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimitjeeuuhh

Maybe put Well of the profane in there, since that character is not really used as a healing character anyway, and the enchantment stripping is great vs evil raptors or just any enchantment blocking...

EDIT : Forgot Profane was in Death magic, though you don't need a high investment for it to be useful.

When we Urgoz we usually have the human necro with CC bring Profane. Makes the attribute spreads much nicer.

DarkSpirit · May 08, 2008, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I use this when I Urgoz:

[Splinter Support;OAhkQoGbYIqEGjhwkwcwWQV1W4FD]
Minor Blood on the hat and pop a conset naturally.

Nice. I was thinking of something like this:

[build prof=N/Mo box name="Orders Support" blo=12+1+3 sou=9+1 pro=9][Signet of Removal][Order of Pain][Dark Fury][Masochism][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Vengeance][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

...or alteratively, replace vengeance with a heal like Blood Renewal.

- Tain - · May 08, 2008, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Prot like PS/Aegis is mostly pointless with SY, most of the time you'd be better off investing the attributes elsewhere.

DarkSpirit · May 08, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by - Tain -

Prot like PS/Aegis is mostly pointless with SY, most of the time you'd be better off investing the attributes elsewhere.

Blocking and damage reduction are still useful, so I dont see why that should be the case.

Tyla · May 08, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Blocking and damage reduction are still important, so I dont see why that should be the case.

The only damage PSpirit would reduce is armour-ignoring damage, as does "TNTF!".
Aegis, maybe, but you're already taking next to no damage.

DarkSpirit · May 08, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

The only damage PSpirit would reduce is armour-ignoring damage, as does "TNTF!".
Aegis, maybe, but you're already taking next to no damage.

TNTF lasts for only 10s and SY does not protect the paragon.

Tyla · May 08, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

The Paragon already has huge inherant armour.

TNTF is also used to keep Aggressive Refrain up, but yet, it still mitigates damage and heals your party at the end.

DarkSpirit · May 08, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

The Paragon already has huge inherant armour.

TNTF is also used to keep Aggressive Refrain up, but yet, it still mitigates damage and heals your party at the end.

My point is, TNTF will not always be there. And AR still gives -20 armor making your Paragon a more attractive target than the rest.

Anyway, I find it somewhat useful for the crucial moments.

Tyla · May 08, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

The Cracked Armour can be removed if need be, and Paragons have huge armour anyway so it's not much of a difference.

DarkSpirit · May 08, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

The Cracked Armour can be removed if need be, and Paragons have huge armour anyway so it's not much of a difference.

Paragons should have about 86 armor with cracked armor, shield, and centurion insignia, assuming a shout is active.

Not exactly untouchable when focused fired upon, but decent armor nonetheless. Helps with the aggro control though when SY is up.

Tyla · May 08, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Don't forget it's also ranged, and you should be under Aggressive Refrain 100% of the time as a Paragon.

DarkSpirit · May 08, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Don't forget it's also ranged, and you should be under Aggressive Refrain 100% of the time as a Paragon.

True that it is ranged, but so are the rest of my heroes. Cracked armor is renewed everytime AR refreshes. And if the monster AI does target the lowest armor, then my paragon may be holding that aggro.

But at least with TNTF and PS to cover TNTF down times, it should be fine.

- Tain - · May 08, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

You don't need PS to keep your imba alive. If you do.. fix your monk builds, trade in your starter armor, and don't be bad.

DarkSpirit · May 08, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by - Tain -

You don't need PS to keep your imba alive. If you do.. fix your monk builds, trade in your starter armor, and don't be bad.

Are we talking about Rac's build on this thread? He doesn't have a monk build to fix, besides Mhenlo and possibly Lina. You must be dreaming of some other hero team build and gone OT.

- Tain - · May 08, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Are we talking about Rac's build on this thread? He doesn't have a monk build to fix, besides Mhenlo and possibly Lina. You must be dreaming of some other hero team build and gone OT.

Nope, not dreaming. If you're running hench monks with this, the prot hench has PS so you don't need it cluttering up your orders. If you have a friend with heroes, have them run a decent build so you don't need it cluttering up your orders.