Curse

Outerworld · Apr 13, 2011, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Seems like a completely standard build to me, ofc you can steamroll everything since pretty much any team builds can, hell even with only 3 heroes and henches you can.

I recall doing Slavers with hh in normal mode and it could be done, even though it was normal mode it was still harder than doing the ordinary dungons on hard mode with 7 heroes.

From now on I wish people would start only making threads when their builds can successfully do hard stuff like Slavers Exile or High end areas.

--

EDIT: Just to be clear, it's not a bad team build compared to some of the other that have been posted, but as you said yourself "nothing new".

With all due respect, Slavers NM was extremely easy even before 7h.

majoho · Apr 13, 2011, 01:47 PM // 13:47

For the wast majority doing it with H/H it wasn't, obviously you are just more leet than other people - just look at all the threads that were back then.

Sir Baddock · Apr 13, 2011, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I'll update the original post with template codes shortly. The bulk of these builds are on PvX - I'll also post the more damage oriented version of the party I run.

Here's a preview of it without templates added - again this is somewhat standard.

In order to do damage with this build there's a few skills you need to micro which I'll note in the original topic.

Pugs Not Drugs · Apr 13, 2011, 02:41 PM // 14:41

with my warrior i run myslef as warriors endurance axe/sy spammer

i bring a aotl mm with prots
a pod curses (pod>lc imo)
a n/rt xinraes healer
ineptitude mesmer
panic mesmer
st communing rit with defensive and offensive spirits
sos rit with soh

i find that one healer really is all i need. with my sy spamming, prots from mm, weakness from curser, blind/antimelee from illusion mesmer, anticaster from panic mesmer, disruption from both mesmers, defensive spirits from the st, and hex removal from the sos, multiple healers really isnt neccesary. Master of Whispers easily keeps my team up,

but the again, everything is so op right now, pretty much anythign works in hm. i think there was a thread on this recently

Sir Baddock · Apr 13, 2011, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Keep in mind you have one "Healer" but you have a Soul Twisting Ritualist with defensive spirits which is what my Monk replaced. I don't like Soul Twisting or it's spirits however the additional damage of Painful Bond was enjoyable. The thread you are referring to was in the absolute easiest location in the game, the build he used could not complete a Vanquish in the more challenging areas so his point is essentially invalid.

Regardless damage variant posted, it still has a terrific defense and I can generally create a bomb off a single target and kill everything at once with Earth Shaker but I get bored of playing Earth Shaker, Dev Hammer, Magehunters, etc.

Daesu · Apr 13, 2011, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

I don't under the modern bitching about too much heals. Note that he doesn't have a ST rit, which is being compensated by the SY,

ST rits don't provide heals, they provide prots. If you want to be picky about it, you can also make it work without PS since you have SY at least for some areas, but that is another argument.

Quote:

prots from necro AND an extra healer. This is fine, build has enough offense as is.

If you look at his Defensive version, he has prots from necro, dedicated heals from another necro, dedicated heals from the monk, Spirit Light from the rit, and "Never Surrender!" from the mesmer. All these on top of SY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

It really annoys me when peopel say too many heals in a build like that... THERE'S TWO HEALERS. That is standard for a HM set up. N/Rt provides heal and condition removal spam, the monk provides a bit of aoe healing with hex removal.

I have started to think that even the current 'meta' template is too defensive, unless your playstyle is to rush head-on into mobs.

Sir Baddock · Apr 13, 2011, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Also Daesu the use of Xinrae's is a Protective Spirit of sorts too assuming the Necro is spamming it on a target. Also an even more offensive variant is going to be posted shortly.

Daesu · Apr 13, 2011, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Baddock

Also Daesu the use of Xinrae's is a Protective Spirit of sorts too assuming the Necro is spamming it on a target.

Xinrae's is closer to Reversal of Fortune than to PS. I don't really like it but there are not many restoration elites that are worth bringing on a hero.

If I am using a dedicated necro healer like you, I would usually try to replace Xinrae's with a necro elite like Pain of Disenchantment for instance.

Sir Baddock · Apr 13, 2011, 03:11 PM // 15:11

I tend to use IV, Xinrae's or Weapon of Remedy, Xinrae's is generally the default skill I fall back on because it Heals, Steals, Prevents. Larger damage variant up.

Pugs Not Drugs · Apr 13, 2011, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Baddock

Keep in mind you have one "Healer" but you have a Soul Twisting Ritualist with defensive spirits which is what my Monk replaced. I don't like Soul Twisting or it's spirits however the additional damage of Painful Bond was enjoyable. The thread you are referring to was in the absolute easiest location in the game, the build he used could not complete a Vanquish in the more challenging areas so his point is essentially invalid.

.

the st rit honestly doesnt even do much. i disable the two dfensive spirits he has most fights b/c minions eat them up. i only use shelter/displacement on fights i know will be ahrd and after my minions are dead. and besides, he is more offense than defenense anyway, and is alot more useful than a monk

Complete Nerd · Apr 13, 2011, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gard

2 resses, with so much healing and defense, is sufficient.

I disagree. One of the resses is "Death Pact Signet", which is a risky ress.
The other one uses up half the health of the original caster, which is also risky. Yes, you can say the team has good healing and defense, but spikes can hit hard and can be at the beginning of the battle, when a warrior will not have built up any adrenaline for the SY.

Also, the OP says :

I can stand still and watch things die

Where is your defense, now?

Those resses are no good for an all-rounder team.

FoxBat · Apr 13, 2011, 03:28 PM // 15:28

If you want to roll faster, these are the most important things you can add IMO:

- Dual fall back
- Offensive commune spirits
- Enough backline that you can frenzy instead of flail

If you do you'll just end up with an even less original build, so YMMV.

Daesu · Apr 13, 2011, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Baddock

Keep in mind you have one "Healer" but you have a Soul Twisting Ritualist with defensive spirits which is what my Monk replaced.

Unless I misunderstood his build, he has a ST rit bringing some defensive spirits like Shelter, but he doesn't have Protective spirit. You either bring PS or use a ST rit with Shelter, but having both would usually be regarded as too defensive.

Sir Baddock · Apr 13, 2011, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Death Pact is on the SoS, the SoS can die and I'll still be fine, Flesh of My Flesh is on the Ineptitude I also care very little about that particular mesmers role in this party as the vast majority of area's he's not as useful as a Keystone but is still useful enough to bring over keystone for the majority of HM Missions. Healing Burst tends to Counter-Act the Flesh of My Flesh loss because the monk instantly uses HB (if it's off cooldown) on the Mesmer which in turn also heals other party members however in the standard defensive version I run we don't die, ever so both of those resurrection skills are useless. If you're using the damage variant and you're worried that Flesh / Pact are too risky switch them over to another secondary profession like Monks or use Resurrection Signets which tend to recharge frequently in PvE (especially in vanquishes). Death Pact is also disabled and only used on core party members which are the Healing Burst, Xinrae's or Myself if I don't want to wait two seconds.

This is one of the reasons the SoS had some heals, if DP is disabled and Flesh is used the Healing Burst + SoS's Spirit Light instantly restore the lost health due to Flesh instantly and the SoS that was largely standing around doing absolutely nothing outside of Splinter / Ancestor's spam.

Being a WoW Player (Guild Wars since launch too) I tend to hold the philosophy that most mages currently use in the game, if you still have excess mana (Energy in Guild Wars case) by the time a fight ends that is wasted DPS or HPS which tends to reflect in my builds as the majority of my team can provide varying rolls. If you want to be even better run dual-RoJ, a third mesmer (Keystone) or even a second elementalist and use a Mystical Summoning Stone.

ian1421 · Apr 13, 2011, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Why give 2 heroes 9 into curses only to give 1 hero MoP and the other 2 barbs...and what? Faintheartedness...not even AoE, -2 degen, and potentially IF its cast on a tooled enemy -50% dmg. Enfeebling blood > Faintheartedness in any case, sacs shouldnn't be a problem with the overhealing mentioned. Shadow of Fear ftw, or even meekness is better that faintheartedness lol.

So many IFS and BUTS, what is the point in the thread?

Second poster wins.

Sir Baddock · Apr 13, 2011, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian1421

Why give 2 heroes 9 into curses only to give 1 hero MoP and the other 2 barbs...and what? Faintheartedness...not even AoE, -2 degen, and potentially IF its cast on a tooled enemy -50% dmg. Enfeebling blood > Faintheartedness in any case, sacs shouldnn't be a problem with the overhealing mentioned. Shadow of Fear ftw, or even meekness is better that faintheartedness lol

Honestly Faintheartedness and Barbs are in there because I couldn't think of anything else to add outside of skills that wouldn't integrate well with Panic and Ineptitude or Fallback. The Invoke Ele can be switched for any possible damage build in the third optional build that removes the monk. The most common build I use is the first (Defensive) and Second (Offensive) outside of those builds the third is just really shown to provide the idea for people to remove the Healing Burst monk and replace it with an Elementalist or any other possible class (IA Rangers work well for Poison + Burning, as do SH and SF Ele's or Keystone Mesmers).

ian1421 · Apr 13, 2011, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Baddock

Honestly Faintheartedness and Barbs are in there because I couldn't think of anything else to add outside of skills that wouldn't integrate well with Panic and Ineptitude or Fallback. The Invoke Ele can be switched for any possible damage build in the third optional build that removes the monk. The most common build I use is the first (Defensive) and Second (Offensive) outside of those builds the third is just really shown to provide the idea for people to remove the Healing Burst monk and replace it with an Elementalist or any other possible class (IA Rangers work well for Poison + Burning, as do SH and SF Ele's or Keystone Mesmers).

Perhaps without even changing the secondry pour the atts into Blood and take minior orders, mark of fury(after all you are providing alot of the Def)+blood ritual for Mesmers.

Sir Baddock · Apr 13, 2011, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Or perhaps I'll take Blood Ritual and a mass Enchant Strip since Enchantment Stripping is largely missing in my build, but regardless I'm setting up some of the new PC stuff I purchased recently so I'll be back with changes eventually but I may not update my optional of an optional build ever as from this topic and seeing the builds played out I'm going to be using the first Offensive Build I posted with the dual monks and perhaps look towards removing the prot's from the MM but in reality that most likely won't happen as I pre-prot with PS + SoA before pulling.

The third build I posted hit 250 DPS and 20k Damage in 60 seconds with Death after 2 Seconds when I tested it. This was with all Minion skills disabled so that would provide a bit more DPS and I'd lose roughly 50 - 100 DPS due to PvE Factors that aren't present during damage tests.

Chthon · Apr 13, 2011, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Top build is pretty bad in terms of completely lacking offense. You've got an axe guy with no buffs, a pretty standard minion bomber and SoS, MoP (with bad recharge), and 7 offensive skills spread across 2 mesmers.

Bottom build is better, but I'm still no great fan.

Overall, I'd suggest that you should stop trying to run casterway for melee characters.

SmokingHotImolation · Apr 13, 2011, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Imo drop the Resto nec for a generic dmg bar. I would suggest an offensive ST rit, but esurge or another dmg type will also suffice. Otherwise it's pretty close to what i run on my sin. (second build you posted that is)