Curse

Bandwagon · Apr 13, 2011, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by mugen

old school pet-barrage-team like

8* pets
- for style !
- shield

lot of interrupts / ressurects skills

3 para for crying / buffing around

3 voley <-> barrage like

classic dual mesmer for basic ownage

spirit spammer / frag for buff

1 monk (y lol skills i know)

can clean most zones HM

many skill can varies... change one char for a MM depending on aera .
Monk1 simply because i am a monk... use whatever you have

rate, comments & improve

Honestly, the SoS, ineptitude and Panic bars are carrying that team (badly, since they are devoting a slot to comfort animal.

If your running pets, run physical buffs, Blood Bond, Barbs, microed MoP. Pets are insane with them. And the physicals taking the pets gain the full benefit as well.

The Bow paras are outclassed by spear paras with skilled micro of MoP, the more you trigger MoP, the more AOE packets that are produced. This beats out Volley / Barrage and doesn't retard adrenaline gain when facing off vs single targets (since Spear speed trumps Bow speed). If you want even more adrenaline, consider Dark Fury, all you need is an open primary/ secondary Necro slot and 6 pts in Blood Magic

Healing Ribbon is absolute trash on AI, they use it without regard as to whether there are nearby allies that it will/can heal.

Broad Head Arrow, D-shot and S-shot is lulzy when you brought Arcane Conundrum, Mistrust, Leech Sig, P-Drain and Panic.

The Binding Spirit, Life is great at keeping pets up assuming they do not die inbetween 20 second intervals (in other words when you level them to 20).

Since your a healer, I'd recommend running some combination of prot / Seed of Life / Ebon Vanguard Standard of Honor. Since heroes crowd around you, they will stay in the ward's effect reaping the benefits of +10-15 damage on each attack / spell packet.

Without BM pts, the pets will deal like ~1-3 each hit (even @ lvl 20 vs lvl 20 mobs), this is passable with skills like Barbs and MoP, and an unacceptable waste of space otherwise. Your team doesn't need 8 pets, though 3-5 pets is certainly possible and useful. After so many additions of pets to the team you will face diminishing returns since having six 0 DPS meat shields can only do so much for the team (furthermore if one of them dies, that hero is useless for 10 seconds).

As many have said before, you are packing too many rezzes, throw two or three on the midline, keep them off the backline unless microed / your the backline and reap the rewards have bringing more useful combat skills to your hero line up.

With a decent investment in Inspiration Magic, Waste Not, Want Not is decent passive E-management for the mesmers, if your fighting a lot of melee and less spellcasters, P-drain won't keep their energy up (due to lack of spells to rupt) and WNWN helps keep up with the energy expenditure. You might as well throw away the Wastrel skills, heroes misuse and spam them, killing their energy.

Krill · Apr 14, 2011, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Usually people think that Enraged Lunge has higher damage than Heal as One but in this case, I am not sure if having more Enraged Lunge is a good idea.

Deep wound can only be applied once, so I would only bring 1 EL and use HaO for the other paragons, and you also gain the side benefit of saving a skill.

Note: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=19

Heroes don't seem to use HaO on their own, and pets tend to have a delayed attack start switching targets or sometimes attack random targets. So there's a couple copies of e-lunge to get a deep wound and the bonus damage is great for a 5e skill.

pingu666 · Apr 14, 2011, 04:45 AM // 04:45

id agree the optimum is 3-5 pets if you want to go pet heavy, with 8, it does seem like half of them do just sit there. pets are best used on physical attackers, they dont seem to run in attack much with spell casters :/

Daesu · Apr 14, 2011, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

Heroes don't seem to use HaO on their own, and pets tend to have a delayed attack start switching targets or sometimes attack random targets. So there's a couple copies of e-lunge to get a deep wound and the bonus damage is great for a 5e skill.

Yes you are right that they tend to use it as a heal than as an attack skill. But pets, as frontliners, do take damage often enough for them to use it in most cases.

Besides, with the extra skill slot, you can add an additional damage skill which makes going with the HaO option higher DPS, especially if the target already has DW. At least this is what I gather from Khomet's post: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=19

Kojima · Apr 14, 2011, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

id agree the optimum is 3-5 pets if you want to go pet heavy, with 8, it does seem like half of them do just sit there. pets are best used on physical attackers, they dont seem to run in attack much with spell casters :/

Truth is there will indeed be times when one or two of them will just hang back and watch the actions instead of running up to add some damages. But half is a little too much.

The Josip · Apr 14, 2011, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Which means they're going to need a lot of healing (stressing your two healers)

Problem solved if he uses Dwayna healer. Pets are allies, and will be healed just like party members, minions, summons, random NPCs..

Voodoo Rage · Apr 15, 2011, 01:04 AM // 01:04

I tried a 7 pet team for kicks and the pets are just stupid. Heroes don't seem to call targets for the pets so they just stand around for most of the battle no matter how much I ping targets. Even in NM play, people were managing to get themselves killed.

Krill · Apr 15, 2011, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Problem solved if he uses Dwayna healer. Pets are allies, and will be healed just like party members, minions, summons, random NPCs..

Dwayna's enchants allies and heals party members. Amongst themselves I don't think pets are a party either, so if one pet enchanted with Dwayn'a dies it will not heal the others.

The best and cheapest way to keep pets alive is call of protection and blood bond. Symbiotic bond is an option too but can redirect significant damage to the master.

Haggis of Doom · Apr 15, 2011, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

Dwayna's enchants allies and heals party members. Amongst themselves I don't think pets are a party either, so if one pet enchanted with Dwayn'a dies it will not heal the others.

A Dwayna healer is a Dervish using Avatar of Dwayna. Dwayna's Sorrow isn't good enough to name a build after it.

FoxBat · Apr 15, 2011, 04:37 AM // 04:37

The Dwyana's conundrum: very good at healing pets, but then you aren't triggering barbs/mop, which is also very good with pets...

From playing around a bit, the "fragility" of pets doesn't seem to come from how much damage they take; they are 80 AL things with 33% damage reduction and low AI priority, their health does take a while to tick down. It's more that your backline virtually ignores them; I think they consider them minions, and won't heal unless energy is full. Priority on comfort animal also seems low, even after combat they take a while to rez the pet...

Another way to deal with this, heal as one + predator's pounce.... great when your pets are taking damage. When they aren't though, your heroes will just leave those skills alone and waste the damage potential. So many catch 22s...

Pets need either an physical attack from their master, or themselves or their master being attacked to engage. If you put them on spellcasters, they're basically going to sit there doing nothing, until /unless the caster gets a wand in. You can hope they might get in the way of some attackers but it doesn't seem that great, considering the added risk of blackout.

The Josip · Apr 15, 2011, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

The Dwyana's conundrum: very good at healing pets, but then you aren't triggering barbs/mop, which is also very good with pets...

You aren't with that Dervish but that's it.

Quote:

It's more that your backline virtually ignores them; I think they consider them minions

Even worse. Heroes will, for example, cast Splinter on minions but will never do it on pets.

Quote:

Pets need either an physical attack from their master, or themselves or their master being attacked to engage. If you put them on spellcasters, they're basically going to sit there doing nothing, until /unless the caster gets a wand in. You can hope they might get in the way of some attackers but it doesn't seem that great, considering the added risk of blackout.

I only use casters and it's not that bad.. An Iguana or two will continue sunbathing instead of charging the enemy, but that's the same with minions, and even spirits sometimes.

So far I find pets fun (even at only lvl12 in DoA NM), since they're the only melee troops I use (minions too, but I'm not a fan of minions and will probably get rid of them gradually).

Main problem I have is finding Beastmastery skills to put on my heroes. Scavenger Strike is the top candidate so far, but neither of the skills really thrill me. I'll be testing EoE for fun once my pets are lvl20, but 60sec recharge kills the fun more than 5-sec cast time.

BrettM · Apr 15, 2011, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Even worse. Heroes will, for example, cast Splinter on minions but will never do it on pets.

I thought this as well, but I managed to get it done in some tests with Master of Damage. My para took a rit hero with Splinter, a pet, a staff, and a spear. If I simply locked the pet on MoD and stood there while the pet attacked, the rit hero did nothing, even if I was using pet attack skills. However, if I wanded MoD while the pet attacked, the hero would spam Splinter on the pet. If I used a spear instead, the hero would mostly put Splinter on me, but sometimes threw it on the pet.

So, it would appear that heroes will use Splinter on pets if the owner is also attacking with any weapon, but they are a low priority if any party member has a physical weapon.

Amy Awien · Apr 15, 2011, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Heroes do not participate in a fight when you're using only pet-attacks - and the foes are beyond their aggro-range.

Heroes will also not use Call of Protection until the pet takes (heavy) damage.

The backline doesn't ignore pets, but party-members have priority. Maybe it's different when there are 8 pets running around.

aspi · Apr 15, 2011, 01:44 PM // 13:44

I have a pet team for my para, not similar to this but a try out from someone who posted in riverside. It works pretty good, I have 6 instaed of 8 because I would not give the monk a pet. Did some HM missions to try it out, VQ-ed some kurz areas and it worked fine. And it was fun to see all those white tigers.
No building the same for my ranger with lions

Have fun with your build.

mugen · Apr 16, 2011, 09:45 AM // 09:45

I explain some of my choices

(i dont speak very well english so you have to excuse me for kiddy like explainations)

- first i agree: Yea you're totaly right, 6 pets may be stronger than 8 pets. Monk blackout is kinda dangerous, but its for style, running a full Zoo is cool
If put myself as monk/necro with mark of pain or so, it would be stronger
You can't say its not stylish running a zoo with you.

- pet are only mesh. Consider them like a minionsmaster-support but 8 constant & without corpse. They are resistants, nice life & dont have death penality...so 4 of them can die each fight the next fight is still ready

- Doing the same area with minions : most of time you have no more allies, they die in one or 2 attack, and you have no more wall when needed. You can easily get overhelmed..here not. never
(2-3 heals on pets; give you the time needed to kill the most dangerous ones)

- i dont like any pet skills that's why i dont use them : rather use a paragon buff or a interrupt than a +30 dmg pet skill that will be mis-used + monster are dying fast enough anyway

- i dont use armor boosting shoot for pet for the same reason, rather use a paragon help or a spirit or so. Even with this shoot pet are still inferior than the monster i fight, so they still die in legal fight

- I used many rez cause this build was designed for "elite zone's" -> tomb of king (free entrance / difficult / can gain ectos)
so rather use a hard rez that can save 1-2 hour of play after a bad aggro, than a few dmg gain ^^

- I used bow para instead of java para : for the simple reason of range. A para javalin can easily gain aggro and get wipeout . Him having more dps wont change anything when facing a few of this... 2-3 hits boom

- i used bow for -interrupts-

-> party wipeout (thx no more ecto :A/E bits->

)
since heroes are basicly interrupting anything they see, it's important to have extras- for when you cruel need it

- In case it doenst work, having pets will make 9/10 the pets being targetted
You'll be blackout, but still alive.

- I use para instead of ranger because they have high armor / shoot are party buff, many available, you can swap them as needed for the aera you aim, and ranger are less resistant in fact stance are almost useless in this zone
->
For 5 seconds, your attacks: cannot miss rangers; remove enchantments from monks; cause conditions on warriors; interrupt elementalists; and lose a hex when attacking necros

- no prot for the mass unbuffing present (para shoot as prot)

- the spirit spammer is totaly part of the build. Splinter wep / spirit for dmgs and wall

-+ Ive put 2 mesmers cause it's the current approved-winning pve pair .. i can put 1 necro for curse & and the second spirit it run's as well

- its to fight dangerous aera, with 150 hp hitting mobs, with means if a few of them pierce your defense, you are dead. Dot. Wards / weakness, they still hit hard. The more targets / pet / spirit, the more survivability

- pet dead = blackout...right. But this doenst mean the game is over. The team doesn't rely on a particular skill but on mass wall / targets... spirits & curse & arrow do constants dmgs while the other pets are dying ... end of the fight you res some and go for next^^
of course its they all die in the same second, it's the bad news

- I myseld sometime as the monk -> res my pet in middle of battle...wich cause it to have lol life and die a few seconds later for a second blakout.. but it sometime save the team ! Winning the 3-4-5 seconds / that will aggro the monster, take the meteor shower or the mesmer shoot, is sometime superior than a healing + defense pierce

- pet can can reach plateform monster, and for curious reason, after some res

, you aggro them !

The Josip · Apr 17, 2011, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

So, it would appear that heroes will use Splinter on pets if the owner is also attacking with any weapon, but they are a low priority if any party member has a physical weapon.

I never saw hero put Splinter on a pet. They'll put it on a caster hero who has nothing but wand/staff, but they just won't put it on a pet. And that also means they won't use Splinter much either, but periodically.

mugen · Apr 20, 2011, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Hi

an other version, with more curse & spirit backbone instead of paras
no good "runes" or stuff on any hero

did tomb HM / slaver HM (me being assa for swap)
Isnt the zoo nice

outlaw161 · Apr 21, 2011, 12:14 PM // 12:14

How long Slavers took you?
And did the disabled time of your skills when pets die kinda hurts?

mugen · Apr 21, 2011, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Dont remember Time. Not speedy neither slow

Here a full ex tomb finish including Some dies

and bad aggros
You Can make your own opinion about black-out and fragility
45mins(nô ecto

. ). Simple i like this zone...élite ectos and free
Entrance

Miteshu · Apr 22, 2011, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

What about using something with pack hunters? May be a little nostalgia factor in B/P but bow DPS is horrendous, especially on heroes.

Here's a rough draft of something I was thinking of that had these skills at a minimum: OoV + blood bond, barbs + MoP, splinter and a minion bomber.

What are the para skills by the way?

I couldn't tell.