Curse

Vazze · Apr 22, 2011, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

That screenshot is impressive. How did it work? Did you hold at Reaper? You have Muddy Terrain and Barbed Trap, but if so I'm impressed that with little damage output (two Smite Monks, two PI Mesmers) you could stomp one side before the other side can get there.

Almost the same way you did lolz, I stalled the whole west and spawnkilled east (Ghozer, he is the third from left). I tried other combinations too but I had trouble with the timing. I still fail a lot though, mostly because I forget things. I also need more snares and single target damage I think, "flooding the battlefield" with vanguard assassins is priceless.
So you spawnkill Madruk and stall Thul Za?

EFGJack · Apr 23, 2011, 08:13 PM // 20:13

I played it cheap and ran Preservation and dual FoC... Anywayz, I'd like to thank Altia OYJ for providing me enough motivation to keep working on different builds.

And the whole build below

All attributes for elite skills are at 16 except for the ST, healer and I, with this build I have a 100% success rate for 4HM, SoG and Bone Pits. Medium micro and prior knowledge is required however. And Dhuum's death doesn't seal the discussion, I'm still willing to point out tips 'n tacs for quests & D.

Elfblade · Apr 23, 2011, 09:05 PM // 21:05

why 2 FoC necro's and preservation if i may ask?

EFGJack · Apr 23, 2011, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfblade

why 2 FoC necro's and preservation if i may ask?

I was wondering the same when I woke up after a night of drinking, but I decided to go with the idea and it seemed to work really well. N/Rt healer sucks at healing though, often they have 2 spells at the ready and people are dropping like flies, Preservation counters this behavior to some extent (and Preservation can be used to stall 4HM and trigger PI on Judgment, totally worth it). And FoC and double desecrates deal a nifty amount of armor ignoring damage, although they're on a 20s cd timer but those spells combined with Splinter/AR + Surges (& Shatters) does a huge aoe burst that's enough to kill tight packs so the spells are often on recharge only when running around. Now I'm sure there are better options than what I presented here but I doubt I'm going to explore better setups any time soon.

Edit: Oh and there aren't many options if you want to fit in 2x Fall Back and FTW, and as many AE spells as possible that do NOT trigger the scatter effect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohllI7YOJB4 - 94 second clip from the start of UW to show you that it's not as bad as you may think. And I'm totally not using AI to my advantage.

outlaw161 · Apr 24, 2011, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Welllll done jeydra that all i can say!!

Plutoman · Apr 24, 2011, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Very well done! So much micro needed though.

mugen · Apr 25, 2011, 06:34 PM // 18:34

really nice

is it possible to do it
-WIThout "save yourself" ?
- without any conset ?
- without micro - except some exceptionnal quests
- with crap - to none tank skill ?

EFGJack · Apr 25, 2011, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mugen

really nice

is it possible to do it
-WIThout "save yourself" ?
- without any conset ?
- without micro - except some exceptionnal quests
- with crap - to none tank skill ?

It is possible to do it without SY, Cons, "crap", and without excessive micro. It's all about knowing what to do and when, and having the hero builds that can pull their weight through the various UW quests. Jeydra did not have SY or consumables other than a mercantile summoning stone which is hardly a consumable of benefit. I used SY and the only consumable I used was a bottle of Smirnoff.

Plutoman · Apr 27, 2011, 03:16 PM // 15:16

EFGJack; instead of FoC, have you ever considered using pain of disenchantment? Strong spike at high curses, lower recharge, less energy. 100% health loss.

Actually, in retrospect.. Maybe not. It'd be excellent against the terrorwebs, but the mesmer mobs in the UW lack enchantments.

EFGJack · Apr 27, 2011, 05:07 PM // 17:07

I use POD in areas with heavy enchantments, such as Slaver's Exile. It's not worthy to bring an elite just to whack a few spiders. Cheers for trying though.

Jeydra · Apr 29, 2011, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Congrats EFGJack

Looks like I had a far easier time against Dhuum with knocklock, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

Almost the same way you did lolz, I stalled the whole west and spawnkilled east (Ghozer, he is the third from left). I tried other combinations too but I had trouble with the timing. I still fail a lot though, mostly because I forget things. I also need more snares and single target damage I think, "flooding the battlefield" with vanguard assassins is priceless.
So you spawnkill Madruk and stall Thul Za?

When I did it, I stalled Ghozer + Kazhad and spawnkilled Kazhad. Teleported to Labyrinth and back just before the remaining two Horsemen got to Reaper, got back just in time to take aggro before Reaper and killed a few Terrorwebs before the survivors on the Eastern side got to Reaper. West spawn was still alive at that point, but I called and spiked out the Eastern Terrorwebs + Skeletons quickly enough to stop them from nuking Reaper.

I haven't been to the UW since I finished it, so all I can say about success rate is that I failed the very first time I tried the tactic and succeeded the second time. Nonetheless, I suspect the true failure rate to be considerable.

The FoC N/P is interesting. It has so much: AoE cover hex for AP, Stand Your Ground, one of the better hard resses in the game + the energy to use it, Fall Back, and AoE damage. Problems would include FoC being small AoE and the long cooldowns, but I've got to try it anyway ...

EFGJack · Apr 29, 2011, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Congrats EFGJack

Looks like I had a far easier time against Dhuum with knocklock, lol.

When I did it, I stalled Ghozer + Kazhad and spawnkilled Kazhad. Teleported to Labyrinth and back just before the remaining two Horsemen got to Reaper, got back just in time to take aggro before Reaper and killed a few Terrorwebs before the survivors on the Eastern side got to Reaper. West spawn was still alive at that point, but I called and spiked out the Eastern Terrorwebs + Skeletons quickly enough to stop them from nuking Reaper.

I haven't been to the UW since I finished it, so all I can say about success rate is that I failed the very first time I tried the tactic and succeeded the second time. Nonetheless, I suspect the true failure rate to be considerable.

The FoC N/P is interesting. It has so much: AoE cover hex for AP, Stand Your Ground, one of the better hard resses in the game + the energy to use it, Fall Back, and AoE damage. Problems would include FoC being small AoE and the long cooldowns, but I've got to try it anyway ...

Yeah, Dhuum's a bitch 'cuz you have to run after him half the time and naturally you do not gain adrenaline when you cspace after him or the adds. No SY often means a hero's death. :>

skullmount4 · May 02, 2011, 02:23 AM // 02:23

EFGJack and/or Jeydra, can you possibly post the template codes for those builds (or pm them)? It would make it so much easier than trying to find all the skills

.

Jeydra · May 02, 2011, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFGJack

Yeah, Dhuum's a bitch 'cuz you have to run after him half the time and naturally you do not gain adrenaline when you cspace after him or the adds. No SY often means a hero's death. :>

You don't say lol, like every time I need to recover from an emergency (say, Judgement going off) I can simply hit YMLAD and buy myself 3 seconds of time; you can't hit a button and be fully charged for SY >_<

Maybe you should run a shadowstep to chase Dhuum around lol.

@skullmount4 - honestly if you don't recognize all the skills it'll be hard to do UW (technique matters a LOT more than builds in UW), but sure why not.

Razah: OACjEyiM5MXzyJGraO5GmMzxJA
Xandra: OACiAyk8gNdmhTr33czl5InA
Livia: OAhjYYgc4OnzzG5U4NMHnTuoNA <-- this is one of those bars that, if you have mercenaries, you can probably run better. Just switch to Rit primary, put in some energy management and switch out Spirit Transfer for Mend Body And Soul / Soothing Memories / some kind of heal.
Jin: OggkYZXbGHKDvG2kcPlPmWJtxxA
Margrid: OggkYZXbGHKDvG2kcPlYnHDtxxA
Hayda: OQOk8Mlr5iiU7mCWo4OWNmP2FGUD <-- Reverse Hex is not necessary, so feel free to run something else, e.g. "Go For The Eyes!"
Gwen: I don't have a template available, but the skills are Energy Surge, Unnatural Signet, Mistrust, Leech Signet, Power Drain, Cry of Frustration, Shatter Hex and Spiritual Pain, at 16 Domination + 11 Inspiration + 9 Fast Casting.

I ran Superior Channelling on Razah, Superior Communing on Xandra, no superiors on Livia, Superior Marksmanship + Major Expertise on Jin and Margrid, Superior Command and Superior Spear Mastery on Hayda and Superior Domination on Gwen. Like EFGJack, I'm a Superior rune addict lol.

Good luck if you try.

skullmount4 · May 02, 2011, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Cool. Thanks. Now it'll be less time consuming to set the builds. Only a few of the skills I've never seen, since I've never had to use them or cared about them.

kelloggs · May 27, 2011, 01:50 AM // 01:50

hey there!
i started the mission "conquest of the underworld in HM with heroes" too and this is my contribution.

first of all you have to apologize my english if any sentence i write sounds strange or out of place. as you can see on the picture above i was not able to fight dhuum in this run because of a certain blackout my heroes had while i was balling all the dryders from the Servants of Grenth quest. i had them all in the right place and i called my heroes to finish them of (i guess there where about 10-15 dryders) and i was hoping my mesmer heroes where able to interupt their fire spells appropriate but well, i was wrong. my whole group behind me was meteor showered into oblivion but here comes the fun fact! you ask yourself how did he get to dhuum with his heroes dead and all the dryders still alive. if your heroes can't get the job done make space for Mr. Reaper of the Ice Wastes. it's kinda unbelievable but it really happened. The Reaper of the Ice Wastes killed all the dryders with his crappy skillbar and so i was able to visit Mr. Dhuum in his chambers.

So that's for the funny stuff that happened in this run

. now lets talk about the build i used and how i managed to survive all the other trials in the underworld. lets begin with the most annoying quest the underworld has to offer: the 4 horsemen. most important fact of this quest is: you cant fight them all at the monument at the same time. many of you already figured that out and so i adjusted my skillbar almost completely to this quest. so what is so special about that skillbar? you can tank one side on your own even with two Skeletons of Dhuum draining your health like sh**. the secret is you have to wear a low armor suit. i used a 25 armor suit and while tanking you also have to cast the 5 energy enchantment (i used Way of Perfection the other skill would be Way of the Master) so normal attack damage from dryders gets reduced to nearly zero and with this tactic you are able to stand there until your heroes finish the other side of the monument.

in order that your heroes are able to survive their encounter i located pretty good flag positions for them (sorry i only have a sketch of the hero flagging for now):

i tested really often to get this tactic to work and my heroes got 4 out of 5 successful attempts at defeating their side. the only thing i micro manage is the spirit of pain before taking quest as you can see on the sketch and the protective spirits from Xandra (shelter, displacement, armor of unfeeling and so on...). you have to manage the protective spirits while you are tanking on pits side so watch out for your skills too

. I engage one rider of dhuum when it stops near the banished dream rider on the hill on pits side (you can aggro him too). When you aggro'ed the rider it's the best time to mirco manage Xandras spirits. As soon as the heros engage in battle they will automatically use their skills (and spirits). I always have set them to "guard".

So when one side is finished you slowly fall back to this sharp curve on pits side and flag your heroes in range to finish the other group. Be cautious, Skeletons of Dhuum are now attacking you and you have to spam Spirit Bond on recharge. Also you have to cast shadow form on recharge so riders wont disable it. Doesnt sound easy right?

as always, practice makes perfect. Here's a pic of a finished 4 horses quest:

Well, now that we have done this awful quest we can go to the more "easy" quests right? wroooong

. i can tell you, there are hundrets of things that can go wrong in this bloody god forsaken place. the thing is, almost everything you encounter can kill you and your heroes in an instant. For example: pulling too much dryders in pools, getting too much aggro in pits (feast of corruption godlike spike), pulling freak&"$%! 4 skeletons of dhuum (also pits) without a f***ing wall between you and them (3 is also almost overkill if mesmer heroes fail to interupt them), flagging your heroes wrong while under attack of Vengeful Aatxes, Spirits getting aggro from a returning group of Vengeful Aatxes which your heroes put up while killing a lured group of dryders, leading them directly to your group near the Lab Reaper and so on...

Oh yeah, Vengeful Aatxes... In my opinion, Unwanted Guests is the most time consuming quest in the whole game. There are 4 Keeper of Souls which you can't reach from any direction without alerting Vengeful Aatxes or dryders or what else there is. I tried it 3 times and 2 times i failed (see my text above) and the 3rd time it also almost ended in a disaster. You have to be super carefull to pull dryders or keepers while Vengeful Aatxes patrol around but in the end i managed to lure the Vengeful Aatxes so far away from there original patrol routes that they got stuck far away from my paper skin heroes (thanks to my imba tank skills). and yes, i also planned to tank dhuum with this skillbar. Two of my heores, Razah and Xandra should be transformed into ghosts so i can manually remove death penalty if dhuum touches me and to keep dhuum at my position i'm going to wear my 25 armor suit (enemy AI always goes for targets with lowest health and armor... well i hope this works for dhuum too ^^). To counter dhuum's aoe spell i hope i can micro manage Ward against Harm from Zhed. The spawned minions should be quick taken care of with my SS necro and Ineptitude mesmer. To damage dhuum himself it will take a while but i hope my two ghost heroes can do the job with "Ghostly Fury" when Dhuums Rest is filled. It should be the same as with an e/mo tanking dhuum except i'm a little worried about the healing when i'm hexed with Weight of Dhuum. With Razah, my psychic instability mesmer gone who has the only hex remove i'm not sure if i can stand those 5 seconds before the hex wears off. Maybe i change wastrel's demise with shatter hex on Gwen and Razah. Another thing of course is, will my heroes stay in the Ward when Dhuum uses his aoe spell or when a few minions loose aggro and run into my hero group. Questions over questions but dont worry, if my build works i will post it here

Last but not least, i mentioned something about "easy" quests some time ago

. Well, i have to admit there are indeed a few quests which are totally easy with the set of skills i use. For example: Imprisioned Spirits and Servants of Grenth. Here the skill Shadow of Haste comes in handy. With it you can teleport over great distances and be at the place of action in no time. In Imprisioned Spirits you can teleport down to the legde where you can lure the incoming enmies with a longbow away from the Tortured Spirits which you have to protect. So your heroes only have to cover the small way where only 3 enemies spawn. In Servants of Grenth you can teleport down where the enmies spawn and tank all of them except the skeletons of dhuum (not because you can't tank them but they will run to the reaper instead of the Ice King and thats the place where your heroes will be waiting for them). The only disadvantage of this tactic is you cant kill anything so you have to call your heroes to do the job which could include an instant fire death by ~15 angry dryders.

I guess that's it. Everything is said about my build and tactics. Of course i have to honor my heroes too to do such a great Job. They can defend themselves against 9 Mindblade Spectres completly on their own. You only have to flag them a little apart so the dont get hexed with clumsiness all at once. Otherwise you can just simply sit and watch. They have total control of small groups of casters and melee enemies also get beaten up by Spitful Spirit and Ineptitude. They can defeat one half of the riders of dhuum with a little help from above (4 wins out of 5 tries) on their own.

Finally i wanna give a few hints on hero skills that you should watch in certain areas and a few tips when to wear the 25 armor suit. Everytime when there are hard hitting enemies around and you dont want them to swarm your heroes you can put your 25 armor suit on and you will noticed that they will always swarm you first (until their health drops and they start to scatter). It is very helpful againts smite crawlers. You dont want them to rush into your group and getting hexed so they can use their smite hex and zealot fire (you get pretty much owned). Zhed has a very useful skill against melee figthers (Frozen Burst) to slow them down but you should deactive it when fighting against caster enemies otherwise he will try to run in range and try to use this skill (possibilty of more aggro from other groups or enemy scatter). Just keep an eye on that skill and deactivate it if necessary. At the very end just a tip when doing the quest in vale. Don't pop all the spirits in vale so you can't get kicked out of the underworld even if all the visible spirits die in the vale quest "Wrathful Spirits" (the friendly spirits pop if you kill Grasping Darkness popups that are scattered around the vale area. stay on the right side of vale so you won't pop them all). When fighting Tortured Spirits deactivate all useless hexes from mesmer so they wont drain themselves (Tortured Spirits have half hex and condition duration). Now i'm finished. Make the best out of it

With kind regards
Kelloggs

edit: big news update!

here comes the grand finale! dhuum is history! the underworld is finally conquered (in my way

)!

to be honest, the way i finished dhuum was not the way i explained before in my previous text. As you can see on the screen above i transformed Norgu and Gwen into spirits so they can remove my death penalty. It was the right decision because i wanted Zhed with his Ward, Xandra with her protective Spirits and Razah with his hex remove to play it safe while fighting dhuum. Unfortunately Zhed died in that encounter after a while and without Zhed or Xandra i would have been raped easily. There was also a moment where i nearly got spiked to death because i didnt have Spirit Bond on me and two times Dhuum lost aggro on me but he didnt manage to kill any other hero except Zhed. The greatest problem was as i mentioned in my previous text: As soon as heroes start getting damage they run into every direction instead of staying in their safe spot inside the Ward against Harm. Also i think Razah did a great job at interupting dhuum's aoe spell because you fairly saw it happening.

I put a not to underestimating amount of effort in this project but in the end it was totally worth it. i'm very proud with me at this moment

. Here is a photo album on imageshack of me doing some of the quests, tanking, hero flagging and so on. Underworld madness

have a good day and see you ingame

Kelloggs, over and out