Curse

EFGJack · Apr 05, 2011, 07:50 PM // 19:50

I know UW can be beaten easily with consumables, SCs, etcetc, but this thread is to ponder how to beat Dhuum HM with just yourself and 7 heroes (No mercs or drugs).

So I have been discussing The Underworld & Dhuum with Jeydra, but as both of us are inexperienced in the Underworld post Dhuum, we have no idea what to expect when going against him.
Has anyone completed the whole Underworld on Hard Mode without consumables? I have gotten as far as 10 quests out of 10, but I can't seem to beat Dhuum, given I've only tried him once because it takes 3 hours to get to him (And then there's a decent chance of failure while doing several quests, too...).

So, is there any way to yoink the riches from the Underworld Chest with heroes/nodrugs? I do not have an opinion as I was unprepared for the encounter.
I observed that:
1. You can not control Dhuum like you can control any other monster in the game.
2. Running after adds makes Dhuum turn onto your heroes, which is bad
3. Dhuum does not hit too hard, Mallyx hits harder (in comparison)
4. if a hero dies, disabling encase skeleton might be a good idea
5. an offensive ST rit would be more useful than SoGM as Dhuum makes quick werk of spirits.
6. excessive hero micro is required - they need to be moved constantly from either Dhuum, or his Final Fantasy -esque Death skill.

How do SC groups deal with Dhuum? Does anyone have any pointers?

Screenshots for the doubtful below

Four Horsemen
Servants of Grenth
Unwanted Guests
Quest log - 10/10

I have recorded the completion of Servants of Grenth, Imprisoned Souls & The Four Horsemen. I will upload the videos in the next few days... And if anyone wants to know how to complete any UW quests with heroes, do ask; this thread is for that, too.

Disclaimer: My hero skill bars are not final & I do not take any responsibility for the possible brain damage you may get while trying to complete UW with the same skill bars as I did.

Life Bringing · Apr 05, 2011, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Ok...first off, congrats on 10/10. Now to tips. Any heroes powering their bar with Mesmer interrupts is going to suffer at Dhuum. I believe his only spell is on a 45 second recharge, and, while it is very important that it gets rupted, it's just not enough to maintain the energy of multiple bars. Most SC teams rely on an ER bonder and PI to take down Dhuum, although you won't be able to mimic that. The closest option I can think of is pulling out a stopwatch and microing an ST every 43 seconds or something. Everything on the spirit heroes bars should be disabled except for the DP removal one and rest. Note that if you plan on killing off some of your heroes, you still need to maintain enough DPS to kill the skeles quickly and enough healing to survive a 20ish minute encounter(shorter or longer depending on how many spirits you have). If anything, I would suggest finding room for Mantra of Flame on as many bars as possible. The only damage that actually hurts in UW is fire from the dryders, and Dhuums judgment is fire damage as well.

Another thing regarding SC teams and Dhuums behavior - SC teams have the entire team stand on the platform thing while the EMO stands a bit closer to the entrance of the room. No one ever moves much, and Dhuum never stops attacking the Emo except during the skill where he pops up and down. There's also a way to glitch him, although I wouldn't think that you'd want to abuse that.

HigherMinion · Apr 05, 2011, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Equipping heroes with staves giving the 20% faster spell recharge makes the timer go down faster. And a very gg to you, Kwossy.

Carboplatin · Apr 05, 2011, 09:26 PM // 21:26

very impressive doing 4H with heros in HM. I couldn't get a NM team going with my warrior, so I'll have to give yours a try.

when our guild used to do UW with heros, we would run 1-2 pets because they can be rezzed during dhumm fight and serves as target for dhumm to hit on.

we also used heros who brought blood ritual and so we can sac/kill the hero before the start of the fight, so we can designate who we want to be resting dhumm. We also disabled encase skeleton.

and for 4H are you you just camping the reaper?

Xslash · Apr 05, 2011, 09:26 PM // 21:26

i finished uw on hm with heroes and no cons or sweets , but i was emo.
i had glyph of swiftness to maintain ER.

also, it took forever because i only prot bonded 4 heroes to make sure I could keep up with the damage.

the other 3 just died and stayed dead.

oh and i disabled rest and encase.

relied on reapers for rest.

i let all the heroes become ghosts, because they will be turned into ghosts even if you keep them alive. when the hit 60 DP they turn into ghosts. so they gonna die eventually unless you cheat and use sweets.

**i guess you could stay alive forever if you bring asuran scan or something**

but yeah you might need DP sweets if you plan on keeping everyone alive.

EverDawn · Apr 05, 2011, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Nice to see a thread like this started

I was thinking about the subject myself, but as I am a total newb I don't really had any interesting enough to say to get the discussion going.

I have a special interest in UW. It's the only elit area I have ever stept into, and then as a 55 Necro trying to farm. It didn't go to well

Now that I returned to the game after the 7-hero update I started to try some builds there. And tried to learn the lay of the land.

Eventually I settled to have my first goal be to pre-clear UW in NM with Heroes. My first attempt went well all the way until i died to AOE from the first terrorweb spawn in the spawning pools. I actually did it with this build. No runes or insignias, no real equipment to talk about either. The heroes couldn't be more under developed actually

I cleared lost vale in my first try and died on some quest, so it's only Spawning pools that I haven't cleared yet. But no quest on the other hand.

This is the build, the paragons are stolen right off from kway (Khomets paragon team on these boardsparagons are stolen righ off from kway (Khomets paragon team on these boards):

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I'll gladly follow this discussion, come with my own questions and try to learn someting

Xenomortis · Apr 05, 2011, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Do you know what it is specifically that caused you to fail?
I don't actually know how much damage his regular attacks do, whenever I've faced him I've had someone maintaining Protective Bond (cheap I know), but if they're not that high then, so long as you can survive Judgement of Dhuum (his lol-AoE spell) combined with his autos, your main worry is Touch of Dhuum (life-steal and causes 15% DP on target).
If you let a hero die, definitely disable Encase - it's much better to kill the skeleton minions rather than let them build up and eventually overrun you. Having a dead hero is nice for Reversal of Death (the only way to counter Touch of Dhuum).

I don't know if you know this, so I'll just state it:
The victory conditions are;
Fill the Dhuum's Rest meter (this occurs after about 10 minutes without your intervention due to the Reaper's, you can accelerate this but I would focus on staying alive).
Get Dhuum's health down to about 20%.

So you need to deal damage to him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFGJack

1. You can not control Dhuum like you can control any other monster in the game.
2. Running after adds makes Dhuum turn onto your heroes, which is bad
3. Dhuum does not hit too hard, Mallyx hits harder (in comparison)
4. if a hero dies, disabling encase skeleton might be a good idea
5. an offensive ST rit would be more useful than SoGM as Dhuum makes quick werk of spirits.
6. excessive hero micro is required - they need to be moved constantly from either Dhuum, or his Final Fantasy -esque Death skill.

Exactly how much damage does he do? Can he quickly kill an unprotted hero? Is that why you need to flag them around so much?
I agree on the ST Rit - so long as it doesn't cut into your offense too much losing SoGM, it should help alleviate pressure from Dhuum a lot.

Jeydra · Apr 05, 2011, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Dude I got to 9/10 and then Reaper died during Unwanted Guests (it got attacked by patrols, and I had almost no experience with the quest ...). Now I don't have ANY experience whatsoever with Dhuum, Jesus Christ. Congrats on completion anyway, after all those endless 20-minute runs to Pits / Plains / Wastes etc lol.

Xslash do you have a screenshot?

Things I'd want to know about Dhuum:

1. He's melee and moves around like other melee monsters right? Does that mean it's possible to hold his aggro with mass summons? If that doesn't work, how deadly is he if he manages to hit a caster? Is it possible to snare and kite him indefinitely?
2. Where does the threat of failure come from? Is it only from Judgement, or is he capable of killing people without Judgement? How much party healing is required to survive a Judgement?
3. Will his DP-adding skill outpace removal (from killing his summons)? Will it outpace the DP removal of one spirit?
4. Will I need anything other than heals and damage for Dhuum?

Vazze · Apr 05, 2011, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Nice! My heroes killed Dhuum in NM but I never got to him in HM: reaper just can't stay alive during 4H.

Dhuum should not be a problem though, bring PI and party heals, that's all.

aga · Apr 05, 2011, 11:43 PM // 23:43

You can skip most of the mobs on the way to plains, can run past all the Behemoths on mountains, except the ones around the monument. And the dreamriders in plains will break aggro very fast, you should only need to kill the one on the monument and the 1 on each side, although maybe once people start getting more confident with their heroes you could skip the ones on the side.

Life Bringing · Apr 05, 2011, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Things I'd want to know about Dhuum:

1. He's melee and moves around like other melee monsters right? Does that mean it's possible to hold his aggro with mass summons? If that doesn't work, how deadly is he if he manages to hit a caster? Is it possible to snare and kite him indefinitely?
2. Where does the threat of failure come from? Is it only from Judgement, or is he capable of killing people without Judgement? How much party healing is required to survive a Judgement?
3. Will his DP-adding skill outpace removal (from killing his summons)? Will it outpace the DP removal of one spirit?
4. Will I need anything other than heals and damage for Dhuum?

1.Sort of. No.Figure out this later. No
2.Judgment is mass pressure. I would guess that the repeated judgments is what eventually causes the wipe.
3.You wont remove all the dp just by killing his summons. One spirit should be able to handle it though.
4. If you can fit in KDs+earthbind, that should make it easier, although it might make getting to him harder.

K, dhuum's judgment hits for ~125-150 on a 60al with cons up, so take that how you will, per wave. So every 45 seconds you have to be able to combat this. Dhuum himself hits for ~200 max with cons up, so a little more without. The champion he summons hits fairly hard as well, but the real pressure comes from judgment.

Ungle · Apr 06, 2011, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Piercing asked me to post

1. You can hold his aggro with mass summons, but Dhuum tends to go straight for the lowest hp 60al target. He will make a b-line for it in general when he spawns (Dhuum goes in cycles, where he is undergroud, pops up to hit people a few times, then comes up, spawns some minions, hexes someone once or twice, uses judgement, then goes back down after a few seconds. Judgement comes on an approx 45 second cycle so you can guess when the spike will come

2. Judgement is up too 450ish damage in a 4second burst. He can pretty much instantly kill a squishy with his hex, his summoned champion, and a few scythe hits. Of the two kinds of minions he summons (Minions and Champion) you only really need to worry about the champion doing any real hurt to your team.

3. Killing minions wont outdo his DP, as he can hit more then one target with it. As piercing said you can have one person dead just using removal. You can instantly tell who has DP because when they get hexed (The only Hex at Dhuum), they get DP.

4. Not really. If your ok with PvE skills pain inverter really really hurts him when he uses judgement. A single PI with a full party can take out atleast an 1/8th of his health. You can time his judgement and know approx when to take PI by counting/timing off 45 seconds from when you trigger him, as he always uses judgement when he first turns hostile.

Chthon · Apr 06, 2011, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFGJack

I know UW can be beaten easily with consumables, SCs, etcetc, but this thread is to ponder how to beat Dhuum HM with just yourself and 7 heroes (No mercs or drugs).

So I have been discussing The Underworld & Dhuum with Jeydra, but as both of us are inexperienced in the Underworld post Dhuum, we have no idea what to expect when going against him.

1. Rather tan talk about it, it might be simpler to take EFG and/or Jeydra on a physway run through UW. That should give you chance to observe Dhuum first hand. If you're interested, maybe I'll be able to gether some RARE peoples these weekend or something.

2. There's already a thread on this topic: here. (You can ignore the people talking about the imaginary bug.)

3.

Quote:

Has anyone completed the whole Underworld on Hard Mode without consumables?

RARE assembled a team to do it for the competition that was called off. During a test run we completed everything hard, but wiped in Pits when yours truly misuderstood the plan and ran off the heal the wrong side of the split. So, I have no doubt that it's doable.... with live people at least. (We had 2 heroes at the time.)

4. I'm curious what tactic you used on 4H. Camp the reaper?

5.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Things I'd want to know about Dhuum:

1. He's melee and moves around like other melee monsters right? Does that mean it's possible to hold his aggro with mass summons? If that doesn't work, how deadly is he if he manages to hit a caster? Is it possible to snare and kite him indefinitely?

He seems to move a little more slowly than normal. At least I've always found him very easy to kite as a caster. It's also reasonably easy to get his attention as a melee by running up and hitting him.

More problematic is his teleporting thing. The teleporting attack is actually an opportunity to heal/e-regen because it's pretty slow and very low damage if you prot it. (It's also un-kite-able, so don't bother.) But once he's done, he's going to reappear randomly and start his normal attack sequence. It's almost a certainty that eventually he's going to pop up far from your decoys and right next to your squishies.

Given the hero AI not kiting too well, Dhuum's immunity to conditions, and his short hex duration, I'd bet that indefinite snare+kite is just not going to be practical.

Quote:

2. Where does the threat of failure come from? Is it only from Judgement, or is he capable of killing people without Judgement? How much party healing is required to survive a Judgement?

Skeletons are the immediate threat. If they pile up, reapers die, and then you're done. (Dhuum doesn't attack reapers except with the splash from Judgment, which they heal themselves from in between uses.) Pressure is the second threat. Judgment is a big part of the pressure, but he's still dangerous without it. The third threat is the damn DP touch, which I'll come back to later. I don't know how much party heal is needed to counteract Judgment because I always mitigate it instead.

Quote:

3. Will his DP-adding skill outpace removal (from killing his summons)? Will it outpace the DP removal of one spirit?

He will touch up DP faster than skellies will remove it. Players might be able to keep up via AScan now, but heroes are SoL without cons. Two spirit people can keep up with the touching. One? Maybe.

Quote:

4. Will I need anything other than heals and damage for Dhuum?

See my post in the other thread linked above. The bare minimum is not dying and killing the skeletons. In a sense, the rest is optional, but there are some things that help a lot.

6. Dealing with the DP touch skill:

If you're not going to use cons, you're going to have to accept that you're going to have some people touched out. I'm not at all sure how you're going to control who gets touched out. When doing it with a live team, we have people suicide to get a spirit or two before anyone else gets much DP built up. Again, no idea how to do that with heroes.

There's a couple of things you can do to reduce the number of touches he makes. One is Earthbind. You can stop maybe 2/3 of everything he does, including the touch, with Earthbind + GDW spam. Earthbind+ Dragon Slash + Brawling Headbutt would probably com close to that. The other is Can't Touch This. Yes, we know that Can't Touch This is a dumb skill in that it doesn't cause a recharge, but Dhuum's AI sometimes gives up on the touch and moves on to something else.

7. Dealing with the pressure, especially Judgment:

The usual suspects: SY!, ProtBond, Shelter. I'd suspect that PS would work if you had two people cycling it. Otherwise you're going to eat a whole bunch of damage on Judgment. Earthbind knocklock reduces the pressure considerably.

You're basically dealing with an infinite time horizon here, so you should compare HPS to DPS, and no deficit spending on energy. Either your backline has more heal/sec, while using only 4 pips, than he has damage/sec, and you win; or he has more damage/sec than your backline has heal/sec on 4 pips, and you will eventually lose.

8. Other stuff
If your party has ghosts, EBSoWisdom reduces the recharge on the rest skill and speeds things up considerably.

If your party has decent damage, PI is a complete waste of a skillslot. I'd only recommend PI if you've had to spec so much defense on the heroes that you can't reduce his health under 20% faster than the reapers can fill his bar.

9.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ungle

Dhuum tends to go straight for the lowest hp 60al target.

I've never had any trouble kiting him or getting him concentrated on the melees. When I play as a caster, I usually take no damage from him whatsoever except for Judgment and the un-kite-able teleport attack. The only problem with the aggro management is his aggro reset when he pops up after the final teleport attack at a random location.

Quote:

You can instantly tell who has DP because when they get hexed (The only Hex at Dhuum), they get DP.

It's true that his AI tends to use hex->touch a lot, but he also uses hex without touch, touch without hex, and, if you have decent hex removal, he can attempt hex->touch but the target gets away... untouched.

EFGJack · Apr 06, 2011, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Equipping heroes with staves giving the 20% faster spell recharge makes the timer go down faster. And a very gg to you, Kwossy.

Bringing staves (spiritbinders) sounds considerable, cheers.

@Carboplatin - I'm clever and make good use of Muddy Terrain @ 4HM, with it I can delay the western front by up to 80 seconds which is more than enough to clear the eastern spawns.
Sacrificing select member before engaging big-D is a nice idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EverDawn

Nice to see a thread like this started I was thinking about the subject myself, but as I am a total newb I don't really had any interesting enough to say to get the discussion going.

I have a special interest in UW. It's the only elit area I have ever stept into, and then as a 55 Necro trying to farm. It didn't go to well

One does not simply waltz in to & complete UW, it's a matter of trial and error -- or excessive studying. If AOE is killing you, you may consider having a keybind for hero flags so you can move them out of random aoe swiftly, and you may want to have your spirit heroes & the healer as heroes 1, 2, and 3 so you can flag them separatedly - don't want spirits & your healer caught up in any unnecessary aoe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Do you know what it is specifically that caused you to fail?
I don't actually know how much damage his regular attacks do, whenever I've faced him I've had someone maintaining Protective Bond (cheap I know), but if they're not that high then, so long as you can survive Judgement of Dhuum (his lol-AoE spell) combined with his autos, your main worry is Touch of Dhuum (life-steal and causes 15% DP on target).
If you let a hero die, definitely disable Encase - it's much better to kill the skeleton minions rather than let them build up and eventually overrun you. Having a dead hero is nice for Reversal of Death (the only way to counter Touch of Dhuum).

Ogden got nailed pretty fast at the start by Dhuum after Judgment, that accelerated the wipe. Dhuum basically 3-shots a clothie so it's not too bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Dude I got to 9/10 and then Reaper died during Unwanted Guests (it got attacked by patrols, and I had almost no experience with the quest ...). Now I don't have ANY experience whatsoever with Dhuum, Jesus Christ. Congrats on completion anyway, after all those endless 20-minute runs to Pits / Plains / Wastes etc lol.

That's what happened to me too the first time I attempted UWG, on the second try I killed off the wandering webs near the reaper to prevent it from happening again

@Chthon - If Jeydra's up for it I could tag along for an uw run, but you don't have to bother. and for 4HM, I knew it's not very likely to survive the assault at the reaper, so I went through viable options and came up with a Muddy Terrain/Barbed Trap/WoH healer, with proper preparation you can stall the other side for well over a minute :>

@Everyone - thanks for the responses. Now that I think of it, it was kind of easy to have Dhuum attack me after he went for someone else, but that may be due to him moving slower than normal HM foes do. It's also nice knowing Judgment is on a 40s+ timer, don't have to bring too much party heals as Kaolai and Divine Healing might be enough. Dhuum with heroes seems to be a matter of staying awake and executing the same actions every 43-50 seconds while keeping the summoned adds under control, which does add some randomness into the encounter, at least with heroes.

EverDawn · Apr 06, 2011, 07:39 AM // 07:39

EFGJack: you are absolutly right about that!

I have tried t ostudy the area as much as I can. That is one of the reasons I like seeing this thread develop. My problem before was that I didnt fidn enugh information I could use myself to make the trial and error part not suck me try on gold, haha. I watch a lot of tutorials on the 55 farm, but never got succes rate high enugh to not lose gold each time.

At that time I didn't have a lot of heroes or UAX, so the hero builds that was around for UW then wasn't something I could run.

Now with 7-hero update, at least I seam to be able to go in, and at least break even in drops. So now I have started to study the quests and enemies more in detail, and trying to figure out what I need to do. Reading about them and actully running into a spawn of UW foes is a lot different.

Right now I'm just trying not to get lost

I'm still pretty happy that I cleard most of UW (no quest) on my firs try going for it. Babysteps.

Also, I don't really now what the aim is here, but if you ant to find viable builds for the community, I'll gladly help buy being the "moron test run", I have under developt heroes, and underdevelopt main char (I basicly only have one main, and he dose not have access to PvE skills or a lot of skills at all), so letting me run a build will tell you if it's good enugh for anyone to pick up and have some success with

EFGJack · Apr 06, 2011, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by EverDawn

EFGJack: you are absolutly right about that!

I have tried t ostudy the area as much as I can. That is one of the reasons I like seeing this thread develop. My problem before was that I didnt fidn enugh information I could use myself to make the trial and error part not suck me try on gold, haha. I watch a lot of tutorials on the 55 farm, but never got succes rate high enugh to not lose gold each time.

At that time I didn't have a lot of heroes or UAX, so the hero builds that was around for UW then wasn't something I could run.

Now with 7-hero update, at least I seam to be able to go in, and at least break even in drops. So now I have started to study the quests and enemies more in detail, and trying to figure out what I need to do. Reading about them and actully running into a spawn of UW foes is a lot different.

Right now I'm just trying not to get lost

I'm still pretty happy that I cleard most of UW (no quest) on my firs try going for it. Babysteps.

Also, I don't really now what the aim is here, but if you ant to find viable builds for the community, I'll gladly help buy being the "moron test run", I have under developt heroes, and underdevelopt main char (I basicly only have one main, and he dose not have access to PvE skills or a lot of skills at all), so letting me run a build will tell you if it's good enugh for anyone to pick up and have some success with

It seems you lack general knowledge of the game, I recommend you get familiar with your own characters, efficient skills and hero usage through normal gameplay before you try to tackle the challenges presented in the Underworld. The aim in this thread is not to find viable builds for the community, but to discuss methods to defeat the end-boss that lies behind the ten primary quests. Although I am willing to give insight and tips on how to overcome quests, but in the end it's the player who must finish the quests, and not everyone is capable of doing so.

and for those interested - video of The Four Horsefriends: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu6XjYE9unU

HigherMinion · Apr 06, 2011, 09:07 AM // 09:07

@Cho; "Can't Touch This!" Doesn't affect Dhuum's touch skill >

@Jack; Innovative use of Barbed Trap, first time I've seen it or Muddy Terrain used on a PvE team bar. And your micro skills are beast.

EverDawn · Apr 06, 2011, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFGJack

It seems you lack general knowledge of the game, I recommend you get familiar with your own characters, efficient skills and hero usage through normal gameplay before you try to tackle the challenges presented in the Underworld. The aim in this thread is not to find viable builds for the community, but to discuss methods to defeat the end-boss that lies behind the ten primary quests. Although I am willing to give insight and tips on how to overcome quests, but in the end it's the player who must finish the quests, and not everyone is capable of doing so.

and for those interested - video of The Four Horsefriends: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu6XjYE9unU

First of all, thanks for to offer of advice. That is what I'm here for.

But... secondly. That was a strange comment to make? Would you mind giving me a hint where it comes from? I would appreciate if my eagerness to learn, but humble approach and tone when I know I'm engaging in discussions with people far more experienced and knowledgeable then me wasn't confused with me being a total nimwit

Yes, I lack a lot of build and skill knowledge. I don't know all skills and their synergies by heart. Yes, my biggest limitation to this game is IRL time. So even tough i have henced, or later hero/henced my way as a solo player trough all quests and missions, I don't have a storage full of gold or collector drops to kit out my heroes with runes and crafted/traded/collected/droped weapons.

I love GW, I have played it on and off for ages. That's the reason I'm happy now that I need only myself to be able to step into UW, because UW was the hight of PvE when I first started to play and their only was one camping. So now that I have "finished" the came in to normal sense of missions, quests and story. It's the challenge I've chosen. I don't really fancy doing a full vanq or HM-mission run right now. Even tough I have tried several for build test.

And yes. The build I tried UW with properly sucks. I did it to learn. And yes, I loaded a unfinished template on my main in the excitement to enter. That was really stupid on my part. Please just don't make me feel stupid when it's not needed.

I'll gladly follow this thread and learn on the way, I understand that the purpose is to discuss the encounter with Dhuum using 7-heroes in HM. That is my end goal to, I'm just being honest with how much catching up I have to do, and presumed that the community was intended to reap the fruits of this labor so to speak.

Kindly /K

Xenomortis · Apr 06, 2011, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Small note after having watched yourr 4H video;
After the relevant quests have been completed, the Reapers become invulnerable and won't die. So after killing the horsemen, you don't need to worry about the Dryders (although it's advised to kill them regardless). It's how you can ignore the delayed wave of Dryders following the Slayer in Demon Assassin.

EFGJack · Apr 06, 2011, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

@Cho; "Can't Touch This!" Doesn't affect Dhuum's touch skill >

@Jack; Innovative use of Barbed Trap, first time I've seen it or Muddy Terrain used on a PvE team bar. And your micro skills are beast.

At first the Mo/R was more of a wild shot instead of the cornerstone of my strategy, but it proved to be way more useful than I had anticipated. And Everdawn, you can equip your heroes easily with green drops you can buy for a few plats, or, if you've got some plat you can craft 20/20 weapons and focus items from Leviathan Pits & Vasburg Armory. If you have access to the ritualist heroes you will find the underworld easier to learn due to area wide protective spirits.

@Xeno - I wasn't aware of the reaper immunity after quest completion, thanks.