Curse

Qcho · May 10, 2011, 03:33 PM // 15:33

For caster classes

0) God tier - Mesmers , Necros
1) Top tier - Ritualists
2) Middle tier - Monks , ER Eles
3) Bottom tier - Dervishes , Rangers , Paragons , Eles
4) Garbage tier - Assassins , Warriors

For physical classes

0) God tier - Mesmers , Ritualists
1) Top tier - Necros , ER Eles , Order Dervishes
2) Middle tier - Monks
3) Bottom tier - Dervishes , Rangers , Paragons , Eles
4) Garbage tier - Assassins , Warriors

Cors Seel · May 10, 2011, 03:45 PM // 15:45

God tier: Ritualists (since my main is a sin i can't remember me doing something without the abuse of splinter weapon)
Top tier: Necros, Mesmers
Middle tier: Monks, Eles, Paras
Bottom tier: Dervishes
Garbage tier: Assassins, Warriors, Rangers

Xenomortis · May 10, 2011, 03:54 PM // 15:54

God Tier: Ritualist
Top Tier: Mesmer, Necromancer
Middle Tier: Elementalist, Monk
Bottom Tier: Ranger, Paragon, Dervish
Garbage Tier: Warrior, Assassin

The Ritualist can do so much; spirits alone do a lot of work and SoS gives a lot of compression leaving a lot of room for other functions.
From the perspective a physical, a Necromancer is very useful but more limited for a caster player (MMs still do a lot for a team).
Mesmers are very potent - it doesn't take much from Domination Magic for them to achieve a lot.
Elementalists are not as strong but still decent - ER is a good skill but ER Eles aren't on par with the professions above and that simply leaves them with damage which Mesmers and Necs can also do and achieve similar results (Ele damage isn't useless though).
Monks are decent healers, can clean and buff melee and add some direct damage support. Only real drawback are their energy limitations.
Use of Rangers and Paragons is limited, almost exclusively to my Necromancer (and perhaps Ranger and Paragon if I ever bothered with them) - can provide ranged physical damage that can be amplified in various ways.
The Dervish is the more useful of the melee professions, since it has a caster based role it can fill - namely Orders spam and/or healing.
The Warrior and Assassin are near useless, I can't think of a genuinely good reason to bring one. Maybe a Crit-bow build is viable for an Assassin.

My ordering is pretty much independent of my primary, but that doesn't mean I use the same builds. Necromancers are still above Eles and Monks but below Rits regardless. Mesmers and Rits are constant.
Use of Rangers and Paras are limited to stacking several of either to achieve something.

Daldaen · May 10, 2011, 03:55 PM // 15:55

God tier: Ritualists, Necros
Top tier: Mesmers
Middle tier: Elementalists
Bottom tier: Dervishes, Paragons, Rangers, Monks
Garbage tier: Warriors, Assassins

This is how I play as a monk... I generally run with 2 AotL necros 1 being a para shouter 1 being a monk protter as secondaries since AotL only take a few necro skills. Rits I use a SoS/Channeling rit and a communing Ghostly Might rit. Basically all my healing comes from me (monk) or necro protter.

Only time I'd drop necros from god status is low corpse areas.

paK0 · May 10, 2011, 04:04 PM // 16:04

A/X

God: Necro, Rit
Top: Mesmer
Mid: Para, Ele, Monk
Bottom: Dervish, Ranger
Crap: Assa, Warri

Plutoman · May 10, 2011, 05:46 PM // 17:46

0) Mesmer by far. Only class that qualifies for this, I haven't played without one in a long time (even before the mesmer update and 7h update).
1) Ritualists, Necromancers - I only use these typically for healing and support. BiP, Splinter, MM, etc - but I rarely have a team without at least one of each.
2) Monks, Ele's, Rangers. An ele is a potent force with ER, and decent with air magic. Monk's are amazing healers if the e-management is sustained - I combine with BiP to make a UA monk amazing. Rangers are awesome utility and damage with splinter, plus my girlfriend plays a ranger so I'm biased.
3) Dervishes, Paragons. Paragons are utility when I'd need/like more than I can slot on a secondary.
4) Warriors, assassins. Self explanatory. Dervish with the update is the only melee I'd use as a hero.

AndrewSX · May 10, 2011, 07:38 PM // 19:38

On caster:
0)Mes, Nec MM(when possible obviously) , ER Ele
1)Monks (heal or smite in the same way), Rits
2)Nec (other stuff), Dervs
3)Wars, Para, Damage Eles
4)Sins, Rangers

On meele:
0)Rits, Mes, Nec (curse/blood stuff)
1)ER Ele, Nec MM, Monk (again, smite/heal 50/50)
2)Dervs
3)Damage Eles, Paras(might be more useful, but i'm a noob at para builds, so...)
4)Wars, Sins, Rangers

chuckles79 · May 10, 2011, 07:56 PM // 19:56

I'm only going to make the first part for heroes, because human builds don't match up thanks to PvE skills

God Tier: Necro(s) D-way, Sabway, or just an MM. From 4 man to 8 man areas you can't VQ crap without at least one.

Top Tier: SoS ritualist, Domination mesmer. You can play any build and bring any mish mash of 4-6 other heroes, and you can roll anything in the game with this combo

Middle Tier: Command Paragon, Ineptitude mesmer, SogM or ST rit, ER protter, Urfshakur, RoJ monk, hex removal monk, avatar of (situational) dervish

Bottom Tier: Rangers (all usable builds), warder eles, redbar monks, Blood Necros, anything with orders, VoR mesmers, 100B warrior.

Garbage Tier: Assasins, nuker eles, axe warriors, tanks (hero tanks, hello micromanagement), pararangers (either way), trappers, motivation paragons (non-Racway), non-avatar dervishes.

This is how it is for me. I've seen others make garbage tier stuff work, but best results for me (imbagon human) are what's above.

Ensign · May 10, 2011, 08:01 PM // 20:01

0) Ritualist
1) Mesmer, Necromancer
2) Monk, Elementalist, Paragon
3) Dervish, Ranger
4) Warrior, Assassin

Ritualist stands alone for having no substitutes. Mesmer is your top-flight offensive tool with lots of utility, and Necros can do pretty much anything and run weird bars and still be effective from their natural strength.

Monk, Elementalist, and Paragon are serviceable filler, that unlike the big 3 gain or lose value fast depending on your main class. Dervish and Ranger are more niche for specialized situations. Warrior and Assassin are well documented trash tier, gogo melee AI!

mugen · May 10, 2011, 09:09 PM // 21:09

the first thread where everyone agree : Assa & Warrior are the big winners !
this deserve some search. There Must be a few usefull build possible.

AndrewSX · May 10, 2011, 09:49 PM // 21:49

The problem aren't builds, is the AI

FoxBat · May 10, 2011, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Positioning matters a ton when you're melee, and it's one of those things heroes are horrible at. But beyond the melee issue...

Any dagger combo is severely crippled in AI hands, even when chaining correctly they just do it too slowly. Adrenaline-heavy builds are also somewhat screwed by poor prioritization of adren use, and most warrior IAS require some intelligence to use correctly.

If you really do want to run melee for some reason, derv wins for having mindless IAS and viable mindless spam builds. Critsins used to be OK but they are outclassed now, and you have VoS to replace hundred blades, even reaper's sweep vs earthshaker.

Xenomortis · May 10, 2011, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

0) Ritualist
1) Mesmer, Necromancer
2) Monk, Elementalist, Paragon
3) Dervish, Ranger
4) Warrior, Assassin

Paragon in 2nd tier? They can be useful but that useful stuff tends to be fine when run on a secondary (such as a Ranger).

Dzjudz · May 10, 2011, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Paragon in 2nd tier? They can be useful but that useful stuff tends to be fine when run on a secondary (such as a Ranger).

Like he said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Monk, Elementalist, and Paragon are serviceable filler, that unlike the big 3 gain or lose value fast depending on your main class.

You can run monk stuff on a secondary too (SoS smite support, Curse smite support). But they're both more effective on a primary. Both (and ele probably) are filler: usually 5 slots are taken by: 2 rits + 2 mesmers + 1 MM (or 1 rit + 3 mesmers + 1 MM). Then the other two slots are filler, like curse resto, smite monk, command para, etc. Each has it's merits.

Kojima · May 11, 2011, 12:50 AM // 00:50

0) God tier
1) Top tier -
Ritualist, Necros (no need explanation on them)
2) Middle tier -
Dervs
(I prefer having M.O.X in no matter how much he loves running off on his own. Just cos I enjoy having him around to tank a bit),
Rangers
(rangers can sub as other classes well)
3) Bottom tier - Elems, monks, Para
4) Garbage tier - Warriors, Sins (Not so much as they are garbage but they can be replaced by anything above)

Cuilan · May 11, 2011, 01:33 AM // 01:33

God tier: They all suffer from retardation in some form or another.
Top tier: Mesmers, elementalists, necromancers, monks, & ritualists
Middle tier: n/a
Bottom tier: n/a
Garbage tier: All the rest.

Really most of this depends on the profession of the player, AI, player skill, play style, and the level of player interaction with dull and retarded bots.

Schmerdro · May 11, 2011, 01:35 AM // 01:35

God Tier: Necromancer, Ritualist
Top Tier: Mesmer, Monk
Middle Tier: Elementalist, Ranger, Paragon
Bottom Tier: Warrior, Assassin, Dervish (yes, melee heroes do suck)
Garbage Tier: None.

Dzjudz · May 11, 2011, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

God tier: They all suffer from retardation in some form or another.
Top tier: Mesmers, elementalists, necromancers, monks, & ritualists
Middle tier: n/a
Bottom tier: n/a
Garbage tier: All the rest.

Really most of this depends on the profession of the player, AI, player skill, play style, and the level of player interaction with dull and retarded bots.

It's a good thing the enemy suffers from the same retardation

.

Mike Jack · May 11, 2011, 02:28 AM // 02:28

God Tier: Players
Top Tier: Players, Mesmers
Middle Tier: Players, Ritualists, Necromancers
Bottom Tier: Players, Monks, Elementalists, Dervishes, Paragons, Warriors, Assassins
Garbage Tier: Players

Kojima · May 11, 2011, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

The problem aren't builds, is the AI

I agree that the warrior heroes can be more of a liability than of assistance.
But I can't say much for the sins, as I never use them at all.