Curse

ChainedCrescent · Jun 05, 2011, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Just started GW a few months ago; been playing a Mesmer primary and trying to figure out hero builds. After reading a bit here about different builds, I've been playing around with trying to "ball" up mobs with a Dervish, inspired by the builds posted by EFGJack. Seems to be going ok, probably a bit more of advanced tactic than I can handle at the moment.

My question is, how would you "ball" up mobs playing a Mesmer, or other caster primary? I'd rather not use heavy minions or spirits (other than the defensive ones like Shelter, seems too good to pass up) and I don't think that would get the job done very well either.

Any general advise would be great; I'm still trying to unlock skills (if there's a good way to go about this I'd LOVE to hear it) so specific builds don't really help right now.

Mike Jack · Jun 05, 2011, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Protective Spirit/Shelter+Shield of Absorption/Union.

LEEEEEROY JEEEENKINS!

ChainedCrescent · Jun 05, 2011, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Was hoping for something a little more elegant, but if that's the way it's done....? Guess I could focus more on a Dervish or Warrior.

Anaraky · Jun 06, 2011, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Well you could try making the enemies ball around an EVAS, or taking a melee hero with Death's Charge. If you micro a bit you can make him use it into an enemy group before they aggro the backline. Other then that though pretty much the only option is to power through with prots.

ultimak719 · Jun 06, 2011, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Mostly in PvE, the melee foes will naturally ball around the weakest character or the tank, if your team sends one out far enough ahead. Casters don't make very good tanks, so people will generally just power through using prots, minions, spirits, whatever, as aforementioned. But, if you are extremely determined to ball foes as a mesmer. The best way I can think of to do it is to use a longbow and attack one foe until the group runs over to your party, then let the minions/spirits tank them. Though it would still be much slower and not really worth it.

Yume Shinigami · Jun 06, 2011, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Balling is hugely unimportant in general PvE. Things just die with single target damage or damage spread over 2-3 targets. The only places balls are really necessary are in high-end areas such as FoW, UW and DoA. For those you need balls. Big, tight balls.

ChainedCrescent · Jun 06, 2011, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Was just trying EVAS, then using a hero with Death's Charge to see how that worked. EVAS casting seems to have a short range and my hero's keep agging the mobs and the hero doesn't seem to want to use Death's Charge.

Appreciate the blunt approach Yume; I'm probably over thinking the tactics required at this point, especially considering I haven't unlocked hard mode in any campaign yet.

FoxBat · Jun 06, 2011, 01:07 AM // 01:07

With a mesmer you can echo the EVAS, two of them have enough staying power to hold a mob's attention for a bit. You generally have to cast from just outside of aggro range to make the trick work best, meaning you can't always send the EVAS after a priority target. If a group is patrolling directly towards you this can be tricky, as they will see you mid-cast. At best this trick is only going to cause melee to ball around it and the ranged guys will stay wherever they are, so it won't do a whole lot vs some of the balanced factions/nightfall groups, albeit balling melee on a ranged guy is better than nothing. It can also be nice to have some minions sweep in after the two sins to grab attention if they die before you can summon more.

There's also a good chance this tactic actually works better in HM, mobs there are more aggressive about switching to the nearby low AL guy. I've seen quite often where melee run a few feet towards my party, then turn around and collapse on the sins.
`

Anaraky · Jun 06, 2011, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChainedCrescent

Was just trying EVAS, then using a hero with Death's Charge to see how that worked. EVAS casting seems to have a short range and my hero's keep agging the mobs and the hero doesn't seem to want to use Death's Charge.

Appreciate the blunt approach Yume; I'm probably over thinking the tactics required at this point, especially considering I haven't unlocked hard mode in any campaign yet.

Well if you are really determined to ball you can always take the hero with Death's Charge in one of the four first slots and flag him a little further ahead and use DC manually. But the only real reason to bother is either a) because you find the playstyle fun or b) to practice for the few really hard areas in the game. As mentioned balling is generally not needed, even in some of the easier "Elite" zones.

Pugs Not Drugs · Jun 06, 2011, 01:45 AM // 01:45

just flag your heros back and pull the mob with a flatbow

once they are all pulled and around each other, use evas on a ranged enemy, and quickly unflag your heroes

hopefully, by the time they kill the sin, minions should have reached them, causing them to gather around them. it is a rough ball, and not perfect, but it works.

it is easiest to do around a corner

of course, this process takes forever if done for every mob, and is largely unnecessary

Dzjudz · Jun 06, 2011, 02:14 AM // 02:14

EVAS followed by myself running in with prot spirit

Lanier · Jun 06, 2011, 04:47 AM // 04:47

balling is pretty unnecessary

FoxBat · Jun 06, 2011, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Is everyone living in 2009 with discord or something? Last I heard AoE was all over meta 7H builds. Always bow pulling crap around a corner, not necessarily worth it. Stepping an EVAS (or yourself) to exploit patrol positioning? A different story.

thetwistedboy · Jun 06, 2011, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

balling is pretty unnecessary

True but to some it speeds things up a lot with the right team. Please don't shoot the idea down.

I'd imagine balling would go the same with a caster profession as with a melee profession. With protective spirit and shelter as backup in case PS gets stripped, you should be able to tank and ball with cornerblocking and whatever else the same as you do on your derv. Other prots like SoA should make it a lot easier as well as some AR buffs.

Squishy ftw · Jun 06, 2011, 06:54 AM // 06:54

When I play my casters I use 1 or 2 dervish heros with Death's Charge + set to attack. Call a target when somewhat close to the next group and they'll jump right in.

mage767 · Jun 06, 2011, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Take a melee hero (derv is good), and a prot hero. Death charge is not essential but could help under certain sitations.

Saru The Boss · Jun 06, 2011, 09:00 AM // 09:00

First thing I'd like to say: don't use Shelter with Minions.

Second thing: balling is useful sure, not necessary but very useful. If you're running 3 mesmers 2x esurge; one ineptitude, or one esurge one inept and one panic, it can make stuff blow up (2 copies of esurge and Mistrust sez hai)

Basically, if it takes more time (or if you think it WILL)to ball it than it would to just jump on them, don't do it. It's a waste of time; and kinda silly.

As far as actually balling, your best bet (IMO) would be EVAS+a quicky snare; eg: Tryptophan Signet. Either that or Shadow Form+Deadly paradox+Shroud of Distress, which would be pretty silly for regular PvE. But play around with it, after all, this is a game; have fun with it. :]

Morte66 · Jun 06, 2011, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChainedCrescent

[...]inspired by the builds posted by EFGJack.[...]My question is, how would you "ball" up mobs playing a Mesmer, or other caster primary?

Same here. ISTM balling is great if you do it and capitalise, but rather hard as a caster. A couple of things I've tried...

- Play a rit, pre-cast your spirits and flag your heroes back, run into place, and summon the spirits to yourself. Once aggro is settled, release the heroes. Aggro mostly lands on the spirits rather than the player. They body block incoming melee. If you use Shaman's Insigniae for AL75 you get some cover from elemental damage and make yourself a less tempting target relative to the spirits; not using a superior attribute rune also helps.

- Get a warrior or Dervish and flag them forward, optionally with shadow steps and tanky builds and whatnot. It's very easy to get this wrong and end up moving the wrong character or to the wrong place.

Both work better with prot but you might get by without if you know the area, e.g. my rit sprints through Mt Quinkai without a thought for safety except the two places where she pulls.

As for protting... ST-Shelter-Displacment seems most reliable, because it's unstrippable and has good range/duration. Prot Spirit has a way of running out if the mob decide to head off in the wrong direction at an awkward moment. Prot Bond + Life Bond is really good at keeping you alive if you know it won't be stripped, and the long range is very nice, but getting an ER protter hero to spam some 5e spell outside combat to keep his energy up is a pain.

All in all, I think this would be very useful for casters if it were a little easier to do and you could build a team around it.

Gabs88 · Jun 06, 2011, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Me\E with Deep Freeze and aspicious incantation. Most mobs travel in patrols or in patters where they scatter for say 15 seconds and then regroup. When they regroup you deep freeze them and nuke on the spot. Aspicious Incantation - Deep Freeze - Esurge - Cry is a nice chain.

Starting the fight quicker and keeping the mobs relatively well balled up means you can deal a lot of damage before they scatter too much. Other then that you've got Me\A and simply shadow step in to groups and throw up some self protting spell. If the mobs don't touch your heroes aggro bubble they'll all ball up on you on the spot. This also allows you to have a little bit of self defence in case you want to ball them up on a corner.

In general you don't need all that much armor to ball effectively you see. SoS\Resto + Minion Master prot + a tiny little bit more pure healing power (2x RoJ smite or say Panic \ Resto or Esurge \ Resto or N\Rt Resto) and thats it, all you need.

Alternatively you can ball mobs up using EVAS with an Aspicious Incantation \ Arcane Echo \ EVAS \ Assassins Promise bar. But then you should be using a couple of heroes to assist you in killing. Can be stupid effective though

shaygo · Jun 07, 2011, 11:27 AM // 11:27

I agree that you dont need to ball things up in most areas, especially not in NM. when I play in elite areas (trying to beat foundry atm) with my necro, I usually take ursan blessing as my elite and throw in some armor boosts like IAU, for the moment ursan wears off. most groups are dead by the time it does. to be on the safer side you can take secondary ranger and use troll unguent before you jump in - its one of the few skills that stays on when you change to ursan form.