Curse

Imevil · Jul 04, 2011, 08:46 AM // 08:46

So, I've been playing Imba for a while and was looking for a decent 7H build. Finally found it but it appears I have to choose SoGM rit or ES Mesmer as the 7th. What would you pick if you were me?
On the first look, the rit is fine, but spirits aren't as mobile as a mesmer spamming 90 dmg every 10 sec + 109 from Mistrust and other stuff. Also, the mesmer isn't that great when it comes to heavy intrerupt areas.
Suggestions ? I'm confused, lol..

marmar256 · Jul 04, 2011, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Depends on your party and how you personally play.
If you ball shit up then ES is the easy choice with the AoE.
If you just leeroy in and go 1 by 1 then the easy choice is SoGM.

Your points are valid but it comes down to how you play and the rest of your team.
Run what you like not what others say is "better", because it might not suit you.

aspi · Jul 04, 2011, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Kinda depends on what you run for the rest of your team. Do you need the extra damage/interrupts or do you need spirits for offense and defense?

Btw I never ever use sogm on a hero, instead I use a soultwisting Rt with defense spirits. ST alone makes the hero spam the spirits like a nutter.

Imevil · Jul 04, 2011, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Basically I'm using necro/rt resto with Pain of Disenchantment, AoTL MM, Ineptitude Mes, Panic Mes, SoS resto, RoJ monk and was thinking what to take as the 7th Hero.

With me running Imba, barely died a few times so far in all vanq, missions etc but it's just bad when the enemy monk runs away out of spirit range.

@ aspi : looking for something more offensive . 2 Resto Rits + Imbagon ( me ) is sufficient heal/prot

AndrewSX · Jul 04, 2011, 10:00 AM // 10:00

As said, depends mostly from your team composition/needs, so a direct "ES vs SOGM" question is just matter of preferences.

But:

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspi

Btw I never ever use sogm on a hero, instead I use a soultwisting Rt with defense spirits. ST alone makes the hero spam the spirits like a nutter.

Agree with this.
ST @ 12SP allow to spam 3 spirits regardless of recharge and high energy cost. So, even if you're not planning to give him shelther and prot spirits (you're playing imba, no?) there are rituals like Dissonance, Disenchantement, Anguish that take advantage of ST for their high cost/long CD. (And blindsong/back-up prots can fill a spot if needed).

Coast · Jul 04, 2011, 10:19 AM // 10:19

soul twisting for communing rit, so much better than sogm

MArcSinus · Jul 04, 2011, 11:52 AM // 11:52

The SoGM vs ST discussion is offtopic.

Simply put: SoGM for general use, ST for areas where fights last very shortly.

Now the ES vs SoGM discussion has no real answer, it really comes down to your personal preference, rest of the party and your own profession.

I prefer Razah as a SoGM rit (assuming we are talking about Razah here), because spirits do loads of armor ignoring damage and have the ability to mitigate damage as well.
When facing lots of weaker or balled up foes you will want to roll ES to simply blow things up quickly.

Kunder · Jul 04, 2011, 02:34 PM // 14:34

SoGM is either horribly slow (requiring you to set up spirits before aggroing every mob) or horribly bad (not getting spirits up until half the mob is dead already).

ES mesmer is far superior unless you enjoy making every mob take an extra 15s longer for no reason.

Chthon · Jul 04, 2011, 05:43 PM // 17:43

SoGM just does not work on heroes because of the recharge issues. Offensive communing spirits + ST does work, but the common idea of combining offensive communing spirits with a Shelter+ST build is a poor one. ST does not have enough charges to support all those spirits, so you're going to end up with Shelter getting cast without ST and going on recharge sometimes. The correct solution is a 3rd rit, which requires paying real world $ for the merc heroes, or waiting for the rit hero that is widely assumed to come at the end of WoC. A poor man's solution is a Reclaim Essence N/Rt.

itiscurtains · Jul 04, 2011, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Like others have said, ES is faster for easy stuff like vqing - it's much more mobile, although much of its AoE potential will be lost since you don't seem to have any reliable way of balling enemies. SoGM may become more valuable in harder areas where fights last a bit longer.
On the other hand, I think that both are probably preferable to an RoJ monk. RoJ monks can be quite powerful, but generally work best with a frontliner because a) frontliners can ball foes up and b) they get SoH. If you also consider that your minion wall will be intercepting enemies before they can reach your party, it's unlikely that skills like Smite Condition/Hex will be doing any reliable damage. I'd probably make Razah an ES mesmer and then use Chthon's suggestion of tossing Communing spirits onto an N/Rt.

J3az · Jul 05, 2011, 03:49 AM // 03:49

I find when going 7H way on my Paragon.
4 Necros ( 1 SS, 1 AoTL Bomber, 2 WoR Healers)
1 Mesmer( Usually Panic with Ench removal and interrupts)
and Either 1 SoS Rit and 1 Stunning Strike Paragon
or
2 Stunning Strike Paragons

FoxBat · Jul 05, 2011, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

ST does not have enough charges to support all those spirits, so you're going to end up with Shelter getting cast without ST and going on recharge sometimes.

Or just put a shield and -5e wand on your hero. Caveat: blood ritual can still screw you up, unless maybe you get a -3e scroll.

Dzjudz · Jul 05, 2011, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I assume you are talking about 7 Hero Player Support. For general play, I prefer the ES, just because the SoGM isn't nearly as mobile and hero AI with spirits (and SoGM) is sub-par.

But, as you can see from the posts in this thread, other people prefer the SoGM.

That is why the build offers the option between both. It's up to personal preference, there's no real answer to which one is better.

Chthon · Jul 05, 2011, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Or just put a shield and -5e wand on your hero. Caveat: blood ritual can still screw you up, unless maybe you get a -3e scroll.

Not sure that's desired behavior either. Neither "Shelter when you need it right now, but stuck on recharge the next time you need it" nor "no Shelter when you need it right now, but at least no recharge" entirely solves the problem. Plus, when playing as human ST, sometimes I consciously choose to drop one last copy of Shelter without ST when I think it's the only thing I can do to stop a wipe.

The best solution remains not overloading the bar with spirits.