Curse

Illion · Jun 26, 2011, 01:02 PM // 13:02

I have been trying to figure out a build that can speed farm all end game dungeons relatively fast (FoW, UW, Urgoz etc). I have been working through all physical classes but it seems heroes have trouble using those efficiently. I ended up mixing two builds:

I play ritualist as main but any class should be considered, whatever is the fastest. Also note that since the goal is farming a balance between speed and lazyway is desireable. I found two approaches interesting, please advice.

Variant 1:

Variant 2:

IronSheik · Jun 26, 2011, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Rit primary will never be fastest. Assassin or similar melee with a physical support build would be the fastest in my opinion.

First of all, two earthbind copies with only 2 (?) knockdowns is relatively useless.

The FoC has many 2s cast skills, probably something I would try to shy from on a hero.

Dulled weapon and GoLE can be slotted better, and won't need painful bond with first commune dropped.

In the first build it might be risky slotting power drain on monk as you have a panic and rupts on the other mesmers as well.

Those just stand out right away at me

Jeydra · Jun 26, 2011, 04:31 PM // 16:31

UW is not a typical dungeon, so there's a lot that you can do (and a lot that works there but is subpar elsewhere).

I'm no Rit specialist, so I cannot tell for sure how good my advice will be, but I would think that the player should go offensive SoS with Summon Spirits. You could also try things like Destruction + Gaze of Fury to kill your own Destruction; such things the AI cannot do. Alternatively if you want you can go AP with PvE skills etc.

For build 1: don't run the UA healer, use a UA smiter. If you use SoS, drop the other SoS Rit for SoGM. Take out the FoC and use another healer of some kind (Panic with Resto, Necro with Resto, etc). If you choose Panic, drop the Panic Mes for another ESurge. Drop also the Ineptitude Mesmer for an Invoke Ele. Don't use Earthbind on the ST; not necessary at all. In fact the ST is probably unnecessary. You can drop the ST entirely for a MM, or you can keep the ST and use only one semi-healer (UA or Panic Resto / Necro Resto etc). Make sure to keep two hard resses somewhere.

Build 2: same as build 1, lose the UA healer, change SoS Rit to SoGM, consider alternative semi-healers (or two UA Monks), lose the FoC Nec for something else e.g. Invoke Ele. If you use the Invoke Ele you can lose Command spec on one Mesmer, which allows you to bring Cry of Frustration (great skill). Again ST is probably unnecessary with two semi-healers; if you use the ST regardless try to run with only one semi-healer.

Finally it seems depending on area caster primary can be faster than melee primary, and vice versa.

Good luck.

Illion · Jun 27, 2011, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Thanks for your replies.

I have considered your input and made the following changes:

I am worried about spikes now when ST is not in the mix anymore. My testing area is the DoA CoT starting area, I try to pull two groups and see if I survive. Usually I die from spikes and aoe from the eles.

Also please advice on the attributes.

Thanks.

Essence Snow · Jun 27, 2011, 03:48 AM // 03:48

On yout SoS and SoGM rits you have overlapping spirits....ie having two Anguish spirits and two Pain spirits is counter-productive as they will replace each other.

thetwistedboy · Jun 27, 2011, 04:39 AM // 04:39

I vote not enough healing and you should put some pve in skills on your bar. Maybe EBSoW.

Illion · Jun 27, 2011, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Thanks for your comments.

The new build looks like this:

Should I run Panic instead of Energy Surge on the second mesmer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

...Alternatively if you want you can go AP with PvE skills etc...

AP as in Armor Penetration? What would you suggest here?

Kabbu · Jun 27, 2011, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illion

AP as in Armor Penetration? What would you suggest here?

Nope he meant AP as in Assassin's Promise. And then the standard PvE-Skills. Or any PvE-Skill you like.

mage767 · Jun 27, 2011, 06:04 PM // 18:04

You don't mix up bars from other team builds to create a new team build that will have the properties of the original builds. Rather, you start from scratch, by working on a new concept, and improving it iteratively by testing in many pve areas (dungeons HM, vanquishing, etc)

itiscurtains · Jun 27, 2011, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I might reconsider the heals on the player bar. You'll likely want to bring Summon Spirits, and may as well bring Vampirism while you're at it. That leaves you with one free slot and a whole slew of spare attribute points. A PvE skill of your choice - or even another "FB!" - would fit well.
Also, if you're running a caster spear, I would drop A-Rage for Splinter. At 16 Channeling it is generally well worth bringing.

Jeydra · Jun 28, 2011, 03:59 AM // 03:59

I'll suggest:

Move Fall Back! from UA Smiter to the Elementalist. He has more energy to use it. Whirlwind is not good; use Glyph of Lesser Energy (or the Elementalist will run out of energy - that's with 3 other energy management skills on the bar, too).
Use this N/Rt bar: Ravenous Gaze, Strip Enchantment, Oppressive Gaze, Spirit Transfer, Spirit Light, Mend Body And Soul, Kaolai, optional. You don't want 2s cast offensive spells on healers, but go ahead and run Flesh of my Flesh if you want (you can also drop Overload on a Mesmer for the hard res and then use Signet of Lost Souls here).
Definitely use more PvE skills yourself. Summon Spirits is too powerful to give up; Vampirism is another free spirit. But beyond that I don't know what's good on player Ritualists.
With UA Smiter and the N/Rt healer you don't need the SoS healer. I would run SoS yourself (which also gives you more room for more PvE slots, not to mention high spec in Channeling for Spirit Siphon = more energy management) and then move the SoGM template to a hero.

Good luck.

Illion · Jun 28, 2011, 03:54 PM // 15:54

I really appreciate the support, thank you.

This is the current build I am running:

Thoughts:

Should I be running panic or another energy surge? I guess panic helps a lot with spike damage.
I decided inbetween Technobabble and Pain Inverter. I chose Techno to slow those casters in the back down, but maybe PI works better.
With Fall Back! gone from the UA I decided to go for another interrupt and energy gain instead of Divine Healing. Does anyone know if the AI can handle having power drains on 3 different heroes? Else I might just go with Divine Healing, though I am just a little bit worried about the energy.

AndrewSX · Jun 28, 2011, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Looks good. Only thing i'd say:
-Point 2: Your bar have 4 PvE skills, eheh(ward+tecno+vamp+summ spir) you'll have to get rid of one anyway.
-Considered that you're a rit, and thus running only a singles rit hero, you could take razah as mez and have him run another e-surge kicking out the invoke ele. Just random preference tho, dunno if this will improve so much the whole team. (this responding point1.)
-(Point 3)Take a look on the mes hero behaviour thread in this section about this: rupts are better to go on a single char. So, it's be better use WNWN over drain ench on one/both mes, or put in a fast recharge hex (aka: overload) and use drain delusion (take in mind that CAN happen that hero will drain a more important hex like panic or so, but shouldn't happen too mmuch often)

Illion · Jun 30, 2011, 12:34 PM // 12:34

I dont know why but the last poster removed his post. I was lucky to remember it though.

Here it is:

All I have to say is that this build is insanely good, I have no idea why he deleted his post. If you gear your heroes similiar so they have the exact same armor and health the damage will be even. I have no problem in DoA so far, its almost like it was one of the game devs who came up with this one.

Huiboo · Jun 30, 2011, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Haha i bet the guy who posted it was a german

These are pretty much the most common meta builds you find in the hero teambuild threads of the german forum wartower.de
Just that the MM useally got OoU instead of AotL.

The other build thats frequently seen there is 3xKSS, 3xDiscord, ER E/Mo.

Jeydra · Jun 30, 2011, 02:24 PM // 14:24

There are two reasons why you found that build "insanely good".

One: you're in DoA, in which there are lots of melee monsters that tend to clump (Titan spawns). This powers up Ineptitude. Since Dervishes can also deal pressure damage through block + blind now, the Ineptitude template is very strong at reducing damage and dishing it out.

Two: you're in DoA, where Enraged + Rage Titans can hit for huge damage. The original teambuild you had have to cope with that somehow - the standard method is either to slot in a ST Rit, or to slot in Stand Your Ground. With neither you CAN still do DoA HM, but you need a lot more finesse.

I strongly suspect this teambuild will be slower than the original in dungeons.

Rufus Deimos · Jun 30, 2011, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Lol, i dont removed my Post. Dont know why its away. Maybe deleted bby a Mod.

Here´s the Builds again.
Build 1 is my favorite.

@ HUiboo

I like AotL more. With Build 1 i vanquished all and run every dungeon easy and fast.

€: And no, i am not at wartower.de .

Morte66 · Jun 30, 2011, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Mesmers with Symbolic Celerity and SOLS... that's a very interesting idea, I have to try that.

Third · Jun 30, 2011, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illion

I dont know why but the last poster removed his post. I was lucky to remember it though.

Here it is:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4233/powern.png

All I have to say is that this build is insanely good, I have no idea why he deleted his post. If you gear your heroes similiar so they have the exact same armor and health the damage will be even. I have no problem in DoA so far, its almost like it was one of the game devs who came up with this one.

I used these builds in DoA (NM) and i died quickly. The emo was not able to effectively heal the group. I used the same skills and most of my heroes have runes. In addition, the heroes rarely used Symbolic Celerity and I think the builds are not effective in areas where the removal of enchantment is present. (Sorry for my english btw)

Jeydra · Jul 01, 2011, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus Deimos

I like AotL more. With Build 1 i vanquished all and run every dungeon easy and fast.

€: And no, i am not at wartower.de .

How fast can you do every dungeon / vanquish without double (or even triple, for real speed demons) Fall Back ... ?