Curse

Wenspire · Nov 25, 2011, 07:37 AM // 07:37

If you are having problems with your SoS Hero using the skill, sometimes they will not resummon the spirits if an existing one is still within their spirit range. In this case, I usually just manually make them use the skill. Though, that's just an occasional occurance but I think worth mentioning.

I also feel an SoS hero is worth bringing. Extra bodies for agro along with their Splinter Weapon is very useful for me since I usually have at least one Ranger hero or a Sin hero (yes, I'm weird like that).

ruksak · Nov 25, 2011, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toraen

It's an elite skill. No trainer gives it, you have to Cap it. Unlocking the PvP version will also unlock the PvE version for your heroes though. It just shows up as its PvP version in any PvP outpost.

hurrrdurrr....my bad. Thanks for pointing that out. I appreciate the response.

AndrewSX · Nov 25, 2011, 08:38 AM // 08:38

The true strenght of the SoS hero is flexibility and usefulness in loooots of situations and for different purposes.

Extra bodies(with all BBlock/mob targetting derivations), plain and great Dmg(a-rage+ spirits auto attacks), support(splinter + 3x pools for spirit siphon/triggering skill extra benefit relying on spirit-MbaS/Spirit light....), enough att. points to spec quite high in any other line, expecialy stuff ilke Prot, Resto/Heal, Command, Smite.

Is good for almost any team, and unvaluable for meeles (meeles love channel/smite rit).
That said, there's no problem dropping it for something else (expecially after 7H update), but you should always remember what you're dropping.

Ultima pyromancer · Nov 25, 2011, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

If you are having problems with your SoS Hero using the skill, sometimes they will not resummon the spirits if an existing one is still within their spirit range. In this case, I usually just manually make them use the skill. Though, that's just an occasional occurance but I think worth mentioning.

I'll agree this is one of the few downsides to the build but usually im running texmod with spirit aggro range which makes it very easy to see when the SoS won't put the spirits down.

Gladiator Steven · Nov 25, 2011, 03:30 PM // 15:30

The only real reasons I'm hearing as to why someone would want to bring an SoS is for splinter weapon, arage, and they're somewhat defensive and offensive "powers."

Honestly, if you're taking an SoS for only two skills, than the hero proves to be inefficient in any area since the rest of the skills are just fillers.

For offensive, I've only seen the spirits offer 20-35 damage at most usually which is pathetic.

For defensive, so what if the spirits hold the mob back for an extra 5 seconds? That makes no difference when you're trying to fall back and re-gain composure.

Pew · Nov 25, 2011, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Splinter, Arage and anything from 3-5 optional slots with enough free attributes and energy management to cover most things you could possibly want or need in a team?

People can't see why that's good?
Flexibility is the key.

And have people really not figured out that you set the spirits down and then lure the mobs onto them? Not to mention the hero won't even come close to lagging behind if you set the spirits as you pull.

Essence Snow · Nov 25, 2011, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Steven

The only real reasons I'm hearing as to why someone would want to bring an SoS is for splinter weapon, arage, and they're somewhat defensive and offensive "powers."

Honestly, if you're taking an SoS for only two skills, than the hero proves to be inefficient in any area since the rest of the skills are just fillers.

For offensive, I've only seen the spirits offer 20-35 damage at most usually which is pathetic.

For defensive, so what if the spirits hold the mob back for an extra 5 seconds? That makes no difference when you're trying to fall back and re-gain composure.

By the same logic...you bring 3 heros for the one skill discord. Since you have an Atol....you're not bringing the 3 discos for discord and minions.

I'm having a very hard time understanding how bringing a SoS hero with 3core skills (sos a-rage splinter) is less reasonable than bringing 3 heros for discord.

There has been an overwhelming answer in this thread. If you choose to ignore it...well I guess we can't help you.

Daesu · Nov 25, 2011, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Steven

For offensive, I've only seen the spirits offer 20-35 damage at most usually which is pathetic.

For defensive, so what if the spirits hold the mob back for an extra 5 seconds? That makes no difference when you're trying to fall back and re-gain composure.

You must have really low channeling if your SoS spirits usually only lasts 5 seconds. 3 level 12 spirits with a total of 222 armor and 720 hp should last awhile unless they are under strong AoE attacks, in which case your mesmer heroes are not doing their jobs.

The benefits of SoS is not so much in the skill itself but the fact that it synergizes well with other rit skills. Being a signet, it creates 3 spirits for spirit siphoning when your rit is low on energy. It also synergizes well with Painful Bond, another channeling skill which also boosts the damage further with another SOGM rit. It also synergizes well with skills that work with spirits like Spirit Light, Ghostmirror Light, Mend Body & Soul, Spirit's Gift, Spirit Transfer.

Gladiator Steven · Nov 25, 2011, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

By the same logic...you bring 3 heros for the one skill discord. Since you have an Atol....you're not bringing the 3 discos for discord and minions.

I'm having a very hard time understanding how bringing a SoS hero with 3core skills (sos a-rage splinter) is less reasonable than bringing 3 heros for discord.

There has been an overwhelming answer in this thread. If you choose to ignore it...well I guess we can't help you.

Yes, but the three discord heroes do a wonderful job abusing the soul reaping attribute to spam ritualist heals thus serving as an excellent damage dealer and healer.

And I have not choose to ignore it, I took the opinions and formed another question out of them. I thought these forums were to help answer questions?

il Priscilla il · Nov 25, 2011, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Steven

Yes, but the three discord heroes do a wonderful job abusing the soul reaping attribute to spam ritualist heals thus serving as an excellent damage dealer and healer.

And I have not choose to ignore it, I took the opinions and formed another question out of them. I thought these forums were to help answer questions?

With 4 mesmers I have no need to have dedicated 4+ slots to resto, and kill things faster and with more efficiency. Thus your multiple slots for discord are wasted. While going by your logic, only 1 of mine is wasted.

Daesu · Nov 25, 2011, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Steven

Yes, but the three discord heroes do a wonderful job abusing the soul reaping attribute to spam ritualist heals thus serving as an excellent damage dealer and healer.

It is not just a matter of energy, spirit siphon is enough for most of my rit's energy needs anyway.

It is also a matter of effectiveness if you bring rit heals. With just SoS up, MB&S removes 3 conditions per cast and there is no health sac with Spirit Light. Granted I have not seen the rest of your team's skill bars, but SoS does offer a nice synergy to other rit skills.

**Marty Silverblade** · Nov 25, 2011, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Steven

Yes, but the three discord heroes do a wonderful job abusing the soul reaping attribute to spam ritualist heals thus serving as an excellent damage dealer and healer.

Actually no, they don't. Discord isn't 'excellent damage'. It's not even remotely close to it. One copy of Splinter Weapon does more damage than all three of your Discords put together. Furthermore, Discord teams are stuck with three+ (four in your case) characters specced with really high Death Magic, which offers nothing interesting other than minions (which is probably why everyone fills the rest of the bars with completely redundant resto heals), whereas Splinter/ARage/etc only require one character and one attribute, making it more of a toolbox character.

You're thinking inside the square. Stop saying 'it's an SoS Rit' - it's a Rit with Channeling Magic. As I mentioned in my previous post, SoS is neither super powerful nor required. All physicals (should) run Splinter Weapon on a primary Rit because it's (almost definitely) the single most powerful offensive skill available for them. It's over 100DPS in ideal circumstances. As everyone else has been saying, flexibility is key... you can easily split your attributes another two ways, have a free elite, and have excellent energy management already specced through Spirit Siphon (you'll probably have at least one spirit somewhere, whether on this bar or on another). Running SoS is certainly the most common elite option, but it does not and should not define the build (perhaps this is less true for non-physicals whose interest in channeling is purely about spirits but nonetheless the principle holds for all builds).

Gladiator Steven · Nov 26, 2011, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Actually no, they don't. Discord isn't 'excellent damage'. It's not even remotely close to it. One copy of Splinter Weapon does more damage than all three of your Discords put together. Furthermore, Discord teams are stuck with three+ (four in your case) characters specced with really high Death Magic, which offers nothing interesting other than minions (which is probably why everyone fills the rest of the bars with completely redundant resto heals), whereas Splinter/ARage/etc only require one character and one attribute, making it more of a toolbox character.

You're thinking inside the square. Stop saying 'it's an SoS Rit' - it's a Rit with Channeling Magic. As I mentioned in my previous post, SoS is neither super powerful nor required. All physicals (should) run Splinter Weapon on a primary Rit because it's (almost definitely) the single most powerful offensive skill available for them. It's over 100DPS in ideal circumstances. As everyone else has been saying, flexibility is key... you can easily split your attributes another two ways, have a free elite, and have excellent energy management already specced through Spirit Siphon (you'll probably have at least one spirit somewhere, whether on this bar or on another). Running SoS is certainly the most common elite option, but it does not and should not define the build (perhaps this is less true for non-physicals whose interest in channeling is purely about spirits but nonetheless the principle holds for all builds).

I'm done, you won me over.
Never again will I dare to underestimate the ritualist.

Jeydra · Nov 27, 2011, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Steven

I'm done, you won me over.
Never again will I dare to underestimate the ritualist.

No offense meant but I'm a bit disappointed by this. With something as major as this, what should change your opinion is your own experience. If you use the Ritualist and conclude it's valuable, well and good, but if you listen to someone's post without trying it yourself, then there's something wrong. Not saying that Marty is wrong in this case, but if he were, then you following his advice will just get you frustrated.

I strongly suggest you playtest yourself and come to your own conclusions. After all, what's best for you is what works for you, and none other.

Swingline · Nov 27, 2011, 05:52 PM // 17:52

The moral of the story... SoS rit is powerful due to it being a Swiss army knife build but you don't need it to survive. Use it if you like it or have a physical. Because a 16 Channeling Magic Splinter Weapon is too good to pass up.

Gladiator Steven · Nov 27, 2011, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

No offense meant but I'm a bit disappointed by this. With something as major as this, what should change your opinion is your own experience. If you use the Ritualist and conclude it's valuable, well and good, but if you listen to someone's post without trying it yourself, then there's something wrong. Not saying that Marty is wrong in this case, but if he were, then you following his advice will just get you frustrated.

I strongly suggest you playtest yourself and come to your own conclusions. After all, what's best for you is what works for you, and none other.

Never said I will use it, just said that I think it's powerful. I have concluded that it's valuable, perhaps more to some people than the others, but originally I thought it held negligble damage and was slow when a-rage and splinter weapon make up for the damage and the spirits provide a back-up.

To be honest, I was just done with the conversation and basically said "Eh, whatever."

Lodar Aric · Nov 28, 2011, 09:51 AM // 09:51

I think in a lot of areas (and with the introduction of 7 heroes parties) you don't have to run an SOS rit, you could get by with something else provided you have that balance between offense and defense.

I tend to play caster characters and I do bring an SOS (without splinter weapon unless there is a physical or minions in the team). I do like the defense the spirits add plus you can add some powerful heals or support to the bar. With the SOS/resto I usually add one other healer - usually a bip resto and that's all I need.

These days out of the common bars/meta you see it's the MM or MB I have dropped. Unless I am doing a mission or quest that requires a defensive stand e.g. Vizunah, Battle for lions arc, eternal grove etc then I don't bring an MM or MB.

Daesu · Nov 28, 2011, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Even for my melee, I bring a SoS rit because it is one of the best choice of elite skills when you bring SW and AR. I don't bring RoJ at times, if I don't feel like grouping mobs before each encounter and without grouping mobs RoJ is just not very effective. With the current OP skills, I have the choice of playing style.

The other point about calculating the SoS DPS is that it is damage over time that allows you to cast other skills after casting your SoS and your SoS is still causing damage over time. This fact was not considered.

Malganis · Nov 28, 2011, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lodar Aric

These days out of the common bars/meta you see it's the MM or MB I have dropped. Unless I am doing a mission or quest that requires a defensive stand e.g. Vizunah, Battle for lions arc, eternal grove etc then I don't bring an MM or MB.

The above is my opinion. When you're playing a defensive mission such as you mentioned, a hero spirit spammer cant be beat, because they can't use summon spirits. But when vanquishing or doing a mobile mission, they require a little microing. Heros wont cast the same spirit if another is in range, and Draw Spirit has very little area of effect.

I like using Rangers as spirit spammers for those high-costing Communing skills such as Dissonance, Shelter, etc. Their Expertise cuts the energy-cost in half. That frees up your two other Ritualist heros to run other builds.

Fia · Dec 02, 2011, 02:35 AM // 02:35

In my experience, heroes like to cast SoS too early, so 50% of the time the spirits can't reach the mob.
If you can spirit spam yourself, that would be ideal. Take advantage of Vampirism and the almost-essential Summon Spirits.