Curse

Vernphos · Dec 12, 2011, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Here's my current setup:

Me - Derv earth prayers/teardown/Grenth

SoS rit (the standard build w Splinter)

Smite Monk (ROJ, SoH, smite hex/condition)

Healing Burst Monk with inspiration magic as energy gain

Rit as MM (AotL+explosive growth+spirits gift, bone minions)

Panic Mez

Psycic Instability Mez (+ anti physical, clumsy, wandering eye etc)

Discord Necro/Mo (with prot spirit, aegis etc)*

*optional slot: sometimes use searing flames ele or third necro etc

So, it works pretty well, but I'm seeing all these 7H builds and NO ONE uses a dedicated healing monk! Is it just that energy management is better than the extra healing you get (divine favor, 15 spec) from a pure monk?

A L15 healing burst pretty much is a super spike recovery that benefits the whole party. How is it that lesser spot heals (spirit light) take precedence?

Comments welcome.

Schnellburg · Dec 12, 2011, 06:10 PM // 18:10

I run a dedicated Monk Healing Burst as well. The N/Rt healer is nice, but I prefer a dedicated monk.

I feel the same way that a spike AoE heal from Healing Burst that will not only heal me, but everyone else a bit is better then a heal that heals just 1 person. I play a warrior so most of the balling/wall blocking is up to me, and I've found that a monk just seems to be a better alternative.

Dalinia Rhayn · Dec 12, 2011, 08:27 PM // 20:27

My preferred healers are a N/Rt Resto and a SoS/Resto Hybrid. Combined with the healing side effects from my 2 RoJ smiters (Reversal of Damage, Smite Condition, Heaven's Delight), this is more than enough for my playstyle. On the rare occasion that I feel the need for more, I add a ER prot ele. Except for Ooze Pit and Slaver's, I've done all of the EotN dungeons in hard mode, as well as a lot of vanquishing, using just the restos and smiters for heals, and don't miss having a monk healer at all.

For what its worth, my general 7H team consists of me as a R/A dagger/pet, 2 RoJ smiters, a N/Rt, SoS/Resto, 2 ESurge Mesmers, and then the last slot I switch out between a Command Paragon, ER Prot or a 3rd Mesmer.

Lanier · Dec 12, 2011, 08:29 PM // 20:29

I use a dedicated healer. I know that many people prefer to hybridize all of their heroes between damage, support, and healing, but I prefer to focus most of my healing on one character (a pure healer), and maybe through a heal or two on another char as well. I'v tried both the pure healer and the hybrid healer approach, and I found that survivability was far better when I used a pure healer hero.

bleh · Dec 12, 2011, 09:27 PM // 21:27

I DO!
I always leave outposts hm or nm now (and since forever >_<), with two Mo/Me s.
On all my characters

I just havn't found the need to increase my damage that much,
And i prefer to play a defensive game/ slow one

.

I Currently use one healing burst
and one prot monk ( energy drain{E}), aegis, PS ,RoF... ect

The rest of the party is usually either.

Me + 2 tanks (D/W) 1 buffs(P/W) 1 caster(Rt/x) 1 mes (panic and rupts)

Or caster party

Me + Paragon + Rit + 3 x Ele invoke + 2 x Controllling & denying Mesmers

I think the key thing missed by most people
is making the Monk build for hero AI because they don't use any forsight it seems

So i pack in more than enough e management and add skills that the hero uses well.
E.g. Gave up on Word of healing because the hero would 40-60% of the time over heal the target because the other monk may of beat them to the heal,
then another target dies cuz it misses word of healing lol

Mind you, there is alot to be said for an infinite energy Elementalist spamming heals with ER though!

turbo234 · Dec 12, 2011, 09:45 PM // 21:45

well my main is a monk so a lot of the time i bring healing burst + a couple skills like ymlad and finish him.
otherwise i just run assassins promise with a few prot skills. my n/rt healer is usually enough to hold up.

Wenspire · Dec 12, 2011, 09:51 PM // 21:51

I have 2 Monk heroes in my party at almost all times: 1 HealingBurst healer and 1 AuraFaith protter. Only my protter runs a Mesmer skill which is MirrorDisenchantment.

Quaker · Dec 12, 2011, 10:11 PM // 22:11

I use an HB monk hero and an Mo/Rt heal/resto hero. In some cases I use an N/Mo who's half MM, half healer.

Jk Arrow · Dec 12, 2011, 10:12 PM // 22:12

I almost never run monk healers in my party. Maybe I haven't found builds I like yet but they seem to have energy issues even with /me skills. Obviously certain areas or team builds call for the dedicated healer role and monk can be the best option.

For general PvE I normally run an ST rit hero in HM and since it's party wide 10% damage limit, 2 hybrid resto heroes seem to work better for me. They can spot heal if needed and can drop PwK for quick party heals after spikes. Most of the time they are casting damage spells.

In NM I don't bring the ST rit but have no need to add any additional heals other than the hybrid toons. Damage is meh in NM and a single PS on a hero is fine for the front line.

RoJ monks could also fit the role but I find they wand too much rather than cast their damage skills.

I find it's better to kill fast than to heal damage taken over a long fight.

The Guildless · Dec 12, 2011, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

So, it works pretty well, but I'm seeing all these 7H builds and NO ONE uses a dedicated healing monk! Is it just that energy management is better than the extra healing you get (divine favor, 15 spec) from a pure monk?

A L15 healing burst pretty much is a super spike recovery that benefits the whole party. How is it that lesser spot heals (spirit light) take precedence?

Well, monks aren't bad at healing at all if you're looking for raw healing; after all, that's what they are meant to do. Different play styles call for different team composition, so just bring what you find works best. I would say that the N/Rt is very popular because of its simple energy management. When you are trying to find out how to have an effective synergy with your healer, the condition "gain energy when you kill stuff" is very gratifying since it directly encourages you to be efficient at slaying foes.

However, if I take your setup as an example, your monk has to rely on inspiration magic to keep energy flowing (you didn't mention which skills, so I'll assume it's the usual Power Drain / Leech Signet setup). This means the monk needs to be facing spell casters to use these skills, which makes it more problematic against melee mobs. Furthermore, you have mesmers interrupting foes themselves, so your monk will probably have even less chances to successfully interrupt a foe when it's not busy healing your party (and more interrupts are not necessarily better). That's a lot of theory and guessing, and in practice your setup probably plays just fine. You just don't have to bother thinking about that with a N/Rt; your only benchmark is the speed at which you kill stuff.

As for the specific skills you mentioned: Healing Burst is a very neat skill indeed. One thing though: it's an elite. Spirit light heals for 156 at only 12 resto (ideal for secondary professions). Mend Body and Soul heals for less but also has integrated condition removal. Protective Was Kaolai gives more armor to your healer and since heroes always precast it, you've got a party heal that will work regardless of hexes and interrupts, and that with no activation time (speaking of when you drop it, of course).

All in all, I'd say people like the N/Rt because you get decent healing and awesome energy management while still having your elite skill slot free, which allows your healer(s) to have extra uses. I personally vary my lineup on my different chars so I get you use both, but neither N/Rt nor monks are my favorite so far. I run two ST ritualists on my main character and it works wonderfully. Anyway, as I said in the beginning, everyone has a different play style and preferences. It's nice to look at numbers and all, but at the end of the day, all that matters is how smooth it feels when you are in your instance with your 7 heroes.

AngelWJedi · Dec 12, 2011, 11:21 PM // 23:21

i always run a UA healer monk or HB healer monk sometimes both. xD

bleh · Dec 13, 2011, 12:16 AM // 00:16

hmmmmmm
What E-management do you guys use for dedicated monk healers?

i use: at 6-8 inspiration magic (mo/me) 2-3 of the following

Ether Signet
(helps heros get that 1-2 more heals when i need it)

Leech Signet
(less usefull with a mesmer or interupting character in party. I find monk heros usually use interupts after healing so they miss with them more often.)

Waste Not, Want Not
(heros seem to use this pretty effectivly.. but they some times choose to cast a heal instead of this then 2 heals (lack of forsight again

))

Energy Drain {E}
usually for a Prot monk sometimes spammer healer monk.
(Lots of energy yup

elite slot booo... 1 second cast yay!.)

Channeling
(This one is very hard to test with heros. I only consider it w/ lots of melee enemys)

Power drain
(is nice but quickly gets drowned out with mesmers in the team.)

Inspired hex & Reveal hex IMO are useless hex removal and useless e management.

My usual combo is:

Ether signet
power drain/ leech signet
waste not want not

Maya Cerestiez · Dec 13, 2011, 01:00 AM // 01:00

I never run monk heroes unless I have too, the N/Rt is just too dynamic imo. Spirit light is heavy and PwK is the ultimate team heal for a non-elite slot. Now that the minion master is getting less attention (ST being in every team) it makes a Mo/ hero more attractive though. I need a rework of the current system before I ever consider switching from N/Rt to Mo/ for hero healer.

yayowars · Dec 13, 2011, 01:03 AM // 01:03

I run with two monks, overkill? Maybe, but it still get's the job done with almost no chance of failure.

I tend to take:
-buff+battery Necro.
-Standard Panic Mes.
-Standard Sos Rit.
-Standard Prot Rit.
-UA monk.
-Healing burst +Arcane Mimicry monk.
-optional (currently Smite monk).

Vernphos · Dec 13, 2011, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Wow...thanks for all the input folks. I honestly did not think there were many who ran monks. Especially interesting was the 2 x ROJ smiters...I never thought of that.

Well the reason I posted is I like to tinker...and I'm always on the lookout for things I've missed. Looking over my 7H setup, I couldn't help but think " So...who is actually doing the killing here?"

I mean, stuff dies like mad, even in HM and there are few places I have trouble with. I mean, everyone wipes sometimes right? Its a game where random things happen.

That said, I like the IDEA of healers with more to do than just "wait until someone gets spiked". Thinking about my setup some more, I don't know that I see the advantage in a dedicated MM only char...so I could see having a few Discord Necs with one minion skill and then some support Prots/heals

Good to see that people still run Monks though

Edit Just saw this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by yayowars

I run with two monks, overkill? Maybe, but it still get's the job done with almost no chance of failure.

I tend to take:
-buff+battery Necro.
-Standard Panic Mes.
-Standard Sos Rit.
-Standard Prot Rit.
-UA monk.
-Healing burst +Arcane Mimicry monk.
-optional (currently Smite monk).

Wow thats a lot of heals! If it works for you then cool. I used to run heal monk and then a dedicated prot monk, but dropped the latter for a Smite which i like more

LanaDarkess · Dec 13, 2011, 01:48 AM // 01:48

I don't run a dedicated monk healer, but recently I've been mucking around with Dillway and been using that for basically everything. It means I can usually run what I want, when I want.

Wenspire · Dec 13, 2011, 01:49 AM // 01:49

To be honest, if you are using a MM in a party, you can pretty much use anything to heal and it will work out. Minions just make things too easy to manage.

FengShuiDove · Dec 13, 2011, 02:09 AM // 02:09

I use an N/Rt healer primarily but have been considering switching to a dedicated Monk healer. Prot always comes from ST, which is way too good. Icy Veins is fine and well but isn't really great damage. I feel like they're probably fairly interchangeable.

Of course the Smite Monk is very effective damage, cleaning, and heals.

wilebill · Dec 13, 2011, 03:09 AM // 03:09

I run a Healing Burst monk in areas where Livia the Sabway necro healing rit might get overloaded. Otherwise replace with a smiting monk with RoJ.

I use the same core heroes with 7 characters and it works pretty well. With a full party of 8, add Rajah spamming defense spirits and another mesmer with Crippling Anguish, Fragility, Clumsiness, Signet of Clumsiness, and other goodies. All depends on area, though. Hayda as Command paragon with a warrior added to the mix.

Main melee is Melonni with Avatar of Melandru for condition removal. Party is really off the wall, but usually works for me.

On subject, yes there are times when you really need the dedicated healing monk.

Lanier · Dec 13, 2011, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleh

hmmmmmm
What E-management do you guys use for dedicated monk healers?

I'd use Power drain + Leech signet. Even if you use a pair of mesmers in the party, there will be enough spells being cast by the enemies to warrent the use of the 2 extra rupts. I use both Pdrain and Leech signet on my monks and it works perfectly fine, even when I use mesmers in my party. I haven't really observed heroes using Waste not, want not well, and even though they do use Ether signet... its just not strong enough imo when I could bring leech sig instead.