Curse

Mig Coconut · Dec 12, 2011, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Modern version of a "pure" physway (very little caster damage).

GDW is easily maintained on all three frontline. SoH can be maintained on two without effort, three takes better energy management.

Adding mark of pain, icy veins N/Rt healer, etc would probably make this build better and more hardy, but I like the idea of a "pure" physway.

Wenspire · Dec 12, 2011, 06:56 AM // 06:56

DwaynasSorrow would probably be useful since you don't seem to be running an MM-bomber.

Lanier · Dec 12, 2011, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Barbs/MoP should always be in a physway build, as should orders if you have that many physicals. I would trim the physicals down to the 3 dervs or 2 dervs + the para and then add in a cultists ferver necromancer with orders and the curses support.

I would strongly suggest using a traditional minion bomber in place of your minion master.

I would probably add in power drain on the monk. Hero monks typically need 2 inspiration spells for their e-management.

ER prot > ST, especially since you're using a mm and spirits in your build.

I can't really comment on the dervs since I personally have only used VoS dervs and I hardly know what any of the other skills do.

Dzjudz · Dec 12, 2011, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Jeydra · Dec 13, 2011, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Pardon my unending dislike of Illusion Mesmers, but: if you are using Shared Burden presumably for the snare only, why not use something with Deep Freeze? You don't have to spec in it, and you can load the hero with more damage.

Dzjudz · Dec 13, 2011, 05:15 PM // 17:15

I will try something out after the ele update

Vernphos · Dec 14, 2011, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Here's what I'm running. Modified Discord-way

I love it when PI knocks down a mob for 4 seconds...

Hooper287 · Dec 14, 2011, 06:30 PM // 18:30

I'm actually curious to see how a pure Physway would work in an area like FoW Hard Mode or another dungoen. It seems to me as though it would only work in a very generalized area where you can trample through everything, but I'm not assuming and I won't judge until I try it!

Hooper287 · Dec 14, 2011, 11:01 PM // 23:01

I don't know why, but for some reason I dislike the idea of have SoS on a hero, maybe because it lacks mobility compared to a human. Although splinter and ancestor's rage are very good skills, I feel as though there could be a better bar made, and I will be working on one and I will share my progress!

Vernphos · Dec 14, 2011, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooper287

I don't know why, but for some reason I dislike the idea of have SoS on a hero, maybe because it lacks mobility compared to a human. Although splinter and ancestor's rage are very good skills, I feel as though there could be a better bar made, and I will be working on one and I will share my progress!

Well SoS recharges every 30 seconds anyway...so placement isn't really that much of a problem

Hooper287 · Dec 15, 2011, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Would you guys say it's a good idea to have pure defense or offense heroes? I'm definitely one for making my own hero teams, but when it comes to making it workable in areas that NEED prots (huge damage, like Ferothax on way to Bogroots for example) it's not that I don't like a MM with Prot Spirit etc, but I feel like having a hero with both heals/prots and spells that target enemies are very distracting. Is it just me? I've watched some heroes cast and I can't even fathom why they are casting when they are. Prots when they aren't needed, offensive when defense is needed, mixing spells up doesn't seem to make sense to me but when I try to make my own "pure" heroes, sometimes it just does not work out! Haha, tell me what you think.

Lanier · Dec 15, 2011, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooper287

Would you guys say it's a good idea to have pure defense or offense heroes? I'm definitely one for making my own hero teams, but when it comes to making it workable in areas that NEED prots (huge damage, like Ferothax on way to Bogroots for example) it's not that I don't like a MM with Prot Spirit etc, but I feel like having a hero with both heals/prots and spells that target enemies are very distracting. Is it just me? I've watched some heroes cast and I can't even fathom why they are casting when they are. Prots when they aren't needed, offensive when defense is needed, mixing spells up doesn't seem to make sense to me but when I try to make my own "pure" heroes, sometimes it just does not work out! Haha, tell me what you think.

This is sort of true... to a certain extent. To me, the issue really comes down to what you want more of in your party, offense or defense. Hybridizing your heals and prots will increase the offensive potential of your party. This is because, when said heals/prots are not needed, that hero will have offensive skills to use. However, hybridizing heals/prots can also, as you point out, lead to issues with the heroes properly utilizing the defensive skills. If a mm is in the middle of casting an animate spell or death nova as an ally falls under attack, they obviously will not be able to target that ally with a prot until the animate/death noval skill's casting time is over and until the aftercast is over. That can delay the casting of the defensive skill by quite a bit.

So yea, it basically comes down to this. Hybridizing heals/prots will lead to slightly more offense while having pure healer/protters will lead to a slightly increased ability for your heroes to prevent deaths. Its not like the difference is that big though... so it doesnt really matter which you choose. Personally, I use hybrid healers/protters in my physway build and a pure healer plus a pure protter (ER prot) in my caster damage build, since the physway build has sturdier heroes overall while the casterway build is more likely to need prots/spike heals available at a moment's notice.

Jeydra · Dec 16, 2011, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooper287

Would you guys say it's a good idea to have pure defense or offense heroes? I'm definitely one for making my own hero teams, but when it comes to making it workable in areas that NEED prots (huge damage, like Ferothax on way to Bogroots for example) it's not that I don't like a MM with Prot Spirit etc, but I feel like having a hero with both heals/prots and spells that target enemies are very distracting. Is it just me? I've watched some heroes cast and I can't even fathom why they are casting when they are. Prots when they aren't needed, offensive when defense is needed, mixing spells up doesn't seem to make sense to me but when I try to make my own "pure" heroes, sometimes it just does not work out! Haha, tell me what you think.

The thing to note about purely defensive heroes is that they will often be doing nothing but wanding, because that's how much damage a typical team takes. This is valuable DPS lost. It is definitely also true however that a mixed hero can cast offensive spells when you need him to cast heals.

There are a few ways to get the required healing while squeezing as much offensive power as you can out of your heroes:

1. Use more than one healer. That way, both of them need to be stupid before you die.
2. Use a Smiting Monk. He'll spend his time casting Smite Condi / Smite Hex / Reversal of Damage, which heals and deals damage at the same time. Damage output is not very high, but it's better than nothing.
3. Use a hero that doubles as something else. One bar I tried out was a D/N Avatar of Dwayna healer. Imbue Health can output healing even when the hero's being stupid simply because of 1/4s cast, and he can keep spamming flash enchantments while using secondary profession skills, Blood Ritual in my case. You can also try lifesteal skills on the hero, that way even if he's being stupid at least he himself won't die.

Personally, I always use hybrids. The gains in offensive power way outweigh the loss in defense.

Daesu · Dec 16, 2011, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooper287

Would you guys say it's a good idea to have pure defense or offense heroes? I'm definitely one for making my own hero teams, but when it comes to making it workable in areas that NEED prots (huge damage, like Ferothax on way to Bogroots for example) it's not that I don't like a MM with Prot Spirit etc, but I feel like having a hero with both heals/prots and spells that target enemies are very distracting. Is it just me? I've watched some heroes cast and I can't even fathom why they are casting when they are. Prots when they aren't needed, offensive when defense is needed, mixing spells up doesn't seem to make sense to me but when I try to make my own "pure" heroes, sometimes it just does not work out! Haha, tell me what you think.

That depends on the area that I am playing in and the profession that I am using. In the tougher areas I prefer pure healers/prots otherwise, I prefer hybrids for the greater DPS.

Melee types that need to be in the thick of the battle tend to have a higher need for prots and heals in general but they balance that out through tank and nuke strategies.

Belzebu · Dec 23, 2011, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I want the opinion of you guys about this build of mine:

Link to the bars:
OgETI5LjHC8RpYHMqQ0D1o44uE or OgETUnLnZaxIMM07yAV6qIXU0D
OQSkQgm7piazdAqqhzx+4a8OuCD
OQhkAgBqAHKENQOw0jpTeGC4QwFD
OQhkAgBrwGK0Lw0TOQempTRAC4FD
OAWjAqhK5OYTrX40ZKNncDzLG
OAOjEyiM5MXzyJGzbKNncDTmJ
OwUTM0nC3hhcXXJaxu4FpHkBA
OwUS4YIP+M8a13l0FvIW/5B

My goals:

No minions, I know they are powerful, but they annoy me with the DN micro to make the necro close to the party and stuff.

Survivability enough for DoA NM, don't care about time, just able to finish it.

Minimum micro as possible

Balanced enough to not need to change heroes/builds for different places.

So, for those goals I tried to balance damage and prot/heal.
Damage: The mesmers, SoS rit, Smiter and my bar take care of the damage and the BiP helps a bit with Anthem of Flames.

Protection: ST Resto and UA Prot are both Protector and Healer hybrid, SoS and Smiter also have party heals (total of 4 heroes with party heal) can handle a lot of pressure.

That BiP Paragon is my utility belt, offer Energy, Regeneration and Armor for the party, a bit of adrenaline for me and help to spread burning.

So, what you guys think? Tips about what to change, the runes on the heroes, tips for the weapons, all feed backs are welcome.

Daesu · Dec 23, 2011, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belzebu

...

Your build looks good and I am sure it works. It is also quite standard, as mine is too. You can see the similarity between our builds and we have also the same goals in mind for our builds.

I dont like the idea of a ST restore though. During tough battles, the ST rit would presumably be busy casting shelter to mitigate high damages. This competes with the need to cast heals.

It would also be good to bring a snare with roj.

Belzebu · Dec 23, 2011, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Yes I know that build is kinda standard, I adapted some builds I saw here, mainly the caster Dillway + a monk build I saw somewhere in the DoA with heroes topic and the paragon BiP.

I didn't test if the ST Resto gives priority to the Shelter/Displacement or the heals, I may check that later.

About the snare, I may put the Binding Chains on the ST if I use the barrage build in my char, if I go as axe ranger the RoJ will probably hit the mobs that I'll be tanking.
---
I just tested this build in Ravenheart Gloom NM, I pretty much facerolled it, even against the The Darknesses I didn't pulled them separately, I tanked them and the spawns and just some heroes died once, not even flag heroes was necessary.

I think only the BiP was on low energy more often than I wanted, I have to check it.