Curse

Net The Nabi · May 10, 2011, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belzebu

Thanks for the feedback, I'm getting ideas before I make my "final" hero build.
This is the new bars I got, what you guys think?

Codes:
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OASjEyiM5MXTMW1kZexkmTuhJ
OAhjYgHaIPP1qqlwOMOlmTuhJ
OAhDYYxnSyBVBoBbhfClBWCVV
OQhkAoB8AGK0LwKQeGCIJQGwy3FD
OQlkAgC8AaezJY6Z6yBDhMwyfHD
OQCjUmmMaOt7gsF+CXjF/44dM

Infuse + minions = death to ER. I promise. Swap it for Convert Hexes, trust me you'll love it. (EDIT: I also like Shielding Hands over Shield Guardian. Personal Preference)

Painful bond is very meh on heroes. High e cost, certainly not worth it for only SoS imo, thats where you put life.

Now with the PoD having a spot open, move up weaken armor and swap enfeebling blood for barbs. Jeydra is imo right in that its not a necessary skill.

Double MoP isn't needed nor imo useful on heroes as they will probably use it on the same target if your calling. Now that you've moved the other curses off your MM, you can remove this and make him a /P for SYG, FB, and whatever other skill you want, WSR works fine, I'd just have it disabled as I'd rather have the FomF be used unless needed, in whichcase a single keybind/micro that is only need in dire straights isn't a big deal.

Now your paragon isn't needed

You have a whole slot to dedicate to whatever you want! I'd go with either a 3rd mes, Panic, or a smite monk with Tease as its elite(I'd choose this.) It's a nice aoe rupt, gives great e management, allows room for SoH, since your Mo primary you can go with RoD and smiters boon, smite condition/hex, drain enchantment for more enchant removal + e management, and either a res(giving yourself another slot) or even more utility and e management with another mes inspiration skill. The possibilities with this Smite monk are great and I think tease + SoH is a great place to start and really impact your build.

Dzjudz · May 10, 2011, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Yet another option is to use the UA Monk in place of the Paragon, and then making the Curses Nec bring mass damage.

What mass damage?

Quote:

I have two main problems with Paragons: one, they attack at less than full cast range, and two, they require line of sight. Invoke bypasses both these problems. I also highly doubt the Paragon outdamages an Invoke Ele, because every Invoke cast is usually 50% more damage to affected targets than Splinter Weapon procs. It can be even more when backed by Weaken Armour / EBSoH. They're also better at taking down whichever target you want taken down, since Splinter does not trigger on the targetted monster. As for Command support, there's little to boost offensively (um ... wand criticals with GFTE? Envy's triggering off only one Rit spammer), but 100% SYG uptime and long Fall Back are nice to have, I'll grant.

What does 'procs' mean? Never heard that term before.

50% more damage than 1 splinter trigger, or all 5 splinter triggers (I hope it's not the latter, that would be very hard to believe

)? Yeah, the point that Splinter doesn't trigger on target is valid. There's still Blazing Spear + Cruel Spear (+ Anthem of Envy + GftE) that does trigger on the target though. GftE triggers on minions as well.

Changed the build a little though.

Main team:
- Curse Resto
- MM Prot
- Illusion Mesmer
- Domination Mesmer
- SoS Resto

Then either:
- Esurge Mesmer
- RoJ Monk
or:
- SoGM Rit
- Command Para

Jeydra · May 10, 2011, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Desecrate / Defile Enchants (rather conflicts with PoD, however), FoC, Suffering (if using FoC), Weaken Armour, etc. Of course Curses doesn't have many good skills to use so you could remove the Necro entirely and use something else for damage.

"Proc" is essentially the same as "trigger". Invoke does at least 50% more than 1 Splinter trigger, and sometimes as much as 100% more (before Weaken Armour / EBSoH support, even). AI doesn't always use attack skills the moment it's charged, a significant drawback to Paragon damage. With max Command and little Spear Mastery, the damage output is only going to be lower, too.

In the end, the final choice is up to you.

majoho · May 10, 2011, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

"Proc" is essentially the same as "trigger".

Actually proc stands for something that has a random chance to trigger, splinter will always trigger so in this case proc is the wrong term to use

Jerichoz · May 23, 2011, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Any suggestions? Usually the 7th hero is a paragon or a warrior.
It works fine but sometimes I think it could be better.

Outerworld · May 23, 2011, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerichoz

Any suggestions? Usually the 7th hero is a paragon or a warrior.
It works fine but sometimes I think it could be better.

I'd replace the SS nec for an SoS rit personally.

Daesu · May 24, 2011, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerichoz

Any suggestions? Usually the 7th hero is a paragon or a warrior.
It works fine but sometimes I think it could be better.

Do heroes even use OOU?

Heroes also dont use symbolic celerity well. You would see them use SoLS without it sometimes.

Plutoman · May 24, 2011, 03:01 AM // 03:01

I've heard heroes use OOU just fine typically. /agree on Symbolic Celerity. They only cast it inside combat, they don't maintain it outside, and other skills have a higher priority (including a lot of signets), so they often get cast without it.

Jerichoz · May 24, 2011, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Okay, thanks

what about my E/mo? I saw a teambuild similar to this on pvx but without e/mo .. it feels like i lack healing without e/mo so I normally take him with me. Is it okay?
A lot of people also use Infuse on the e/mo but when I tried, it didn't really work well. What do you say?

greetz

aspi · May 24, 2011, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Spitefull spirit is not very good together with 2 mesmers, or even with one panic mesmer alone. Unless the heroes can cast it on melee alone it's a waste of an elite.
Same with barbs, it looks ok on paper but in the game it is only good for really strong bosses.

What kind of char do you plan on using it for Jerichoz

Jerichoz · May 24, 2011, 02:36 PM // 14:36

I play ele .. I think the best would be if I would play the e/mo part but I HATE HEALING, so i usually play SH ele or earth support.. not the best I know but it makes more fun than the boring healing stuff

greets

Squishy ftw · May 27, 2011, 10:29 AM // 10:29

My current standard setup for just about anything, from HM missions and vanquishes to UW/FoW HM/Doa + Mallyx/Urgoz/...

Daesu · May 27, 2011, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

My current standard setup for just about anything, from HM missions and vanquishes to UW/FoW HM/Doa + Mallyx/Urgoz/...

Shelter and Displacement last much shorter with minions than without. Need more Blood Bond, Strength of Honor, and condition removal.

Never Surrender used to affect minions and allies also but not anymore. Not sure if heroes use it well consistently.

Voodoo Rage · May 27, 2011, 02:32 PM // 14:32

I changed my minion philosophy significantly switching to a combination of Order of Undeath (which heroes DO use fine) and a Soul Twisting Rit that focuses only on Shelter and Displacement. So instead of the standard minion bomber tactic, I have 9 Bone Fiends and Vampiric Horrors are pretty much up constantly and my team has THREE copies of splinter weapon. The rest of my team the normal OP mesmers, rits, etc... I've done about 3 vanquishes and did FoW in HM with a survivor title still intact.

Squishy ftw · May 27, 2011, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Shelter/Displacement affecting minions (and thus lasting much short) is something I'm perfectly fine with. If they live longer..they keep stuff away from my party longer. Besides..they have almost as much armor as my heros do..(lvl 20 = 78, lvl 18 = 72, or something close to that)

Blood bond and SoH would indeed be nice, and in some variations I do run it, but it usually means I have to drop something else I really like. Any suggestions as to where to put it in this specific team setup?

Condition removal..meh. Hardly anything is worth removing. IAU will keep me free of cripple and blind is covered by asuran scan. Don't care for anything else, the monk will just have to outheal that.

Daesu · May 27, 2011, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

Shelter/Displacement affecting minions (and thus lasting much short) is something I'm perfectly fine with. If they live longer..they keep stuff away from my party longer. Besides..they have almost as much armor as my heros do..(lvl 20 = 78, lvl 18 = 72, or something close to that)

Keeping minions alive to tank sounds like a good thing, but in this case, at a cost to your party. Besides, do you really need that much minion tanking for the rest of your party when you are melee?

Quote:

Blood bond and SoH would indeed be nice, and in some variations I do run it, but it usually means I have to drop something else I really like. Any suggestions as to where to put it in this specific team setup?

I don't think you need a curse necro to occupy one hero slot. You can move the curses to your MM, either remove putrid explosion or shamblings, and move the paragon skills to your rit to free up one character slot.

Quote:

Condition removal..meh. Hardly anything is worth removing. IAU will keep me free of cripple and blind is covered by asuran scan. Don't care for anything else, the monk will just have to outheal that.

Your loss then, IAU can be on recharge and you would have to keep casting asura scan one target at a time.

Of all 7 heroes and no space for a condition removal for a warrior?

Jerichoz · May 27, 2011, 04:11 PM // 16:11

I now run

Curse Resto with Pain of Disenchantment
3 Mesmers (ESurge, panic and Ineptitude)
RoJ Smiter
MM with Aura of the lich
SoS Rit

Pretty standard, but it doesn't work very well imo.. it takes to long to kill, and sometimes runs out of heal.. I miss my E/mo somehow

any tips?

Squishy ftw · May 27, 2011, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Keeping minions alive to tank sounds like a good thing, but in this case, at a cost to your party. Besides, do you really need that much minion tanking for the rest of your party when you are melee?

I don't think you need a curse necro to occupy one hero slot. You can move the curses to your MM, either remove putrid explosion or shamblings, and move the paragon skills to your rit to free up one character slot.

Your loss then, IAU can be on recharge and you would have to keep casting asura scan one target at a time.

Of all 7 heroes and no space for a condition removal for a warrior?

The cost is worth it imo, so yes.

The FoC is indeed the character that sometimes gets subbed out for something else. I'll play around with this slot some more and see if I get more enjoyment out of bloodbond/soh/whatever.

I simply do not want to bring any condition removal...in the rare occasions that I do deem condition removal necessary..I put 1 or 2 x pure was mi ling on the rits.

Daesu · May 27, 2011, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerichoz

I now run

Curse Resto with Pain of Disenchantment
3 Mesmers (ESurge, panic and Ineptitude)
RoJ Smiter
MM with Aura of the lich
SoS Rit

Pretty standard, but it doesn't work very well imo.. it takes to long to kill, and sometimes runs out of heal.. I miss my E/mo somehow

any tips?

Since you play an ele, try replacing the RoJ smiter with a ST offensive communing rit. RoJ heroes fit a melee character better because they can ball enemies up. You can also make your SoS Rit part restoration if you need heals.

I can't tell from your brief description but see if you can move your curses skill into your MM and free up a hero slot for another hero.

Jerichoz · May 27, 2011, 04:56 PM // 16:56

tbh, i just copied the teambuild frm pvxwiki.. here: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Player_Support
i never been a good pve player, i just do it because of the HoM now so I just need some solid 7H build that works fine and fast in HM so i can get some titles, finish some HM dungeons etc..

PvX said the smiter is also fine with caster, what I thought is right since there is no strength of honor in the build

greets