Curse

ensoriki · Apr 23, 2011, 09:10 PM // 21:10

JFD Assassin with SY
1 Shared Burden Mesmer
1 Keystone Mesmer
1 PI mesmer
2 E-surge mesmers
1 N/Rt healer
1 ST Rit

I sometimes get lazy run into a Mob, Shared Burden goes off, PI then follows, Mobs drop on the floor, Keystone and E-surge nuke them.
I hit the mob, drop a Death Blossom.
One of the E-surges has some heals just in case.

Aren · Apr 24, 2011, 09:18 AM // 09:18

So i have made something like that, i plan on doing Vanq in Kurz/Lux areas for titles, i havent decided what my ele will run as (i have no clue yet). Pretty standard build?, tho any comments will be good.

SongOf · Apr 24, 2011, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Replace GoLE with Guilt, since points in Dom is high anyway and it doubles as both emanagement and defense AND may actually yield more energy than GoLE due to FC recharge bonus.

4 res too many IMO (3 IMO perfect #), and reses on healers is a bad idea, I'd take FoMF off the necro, and since this'll be a Vanquishing build anyway, if you wipe it's not game over :]

Honestly Dissonance is not worth it, HUGE ecost, HUGE recharge, and only lasts 25 seconds?? If you want a lot of interrupts, add Anthem of Disruption to your para- bam all your spirits will cause interrupts every 15 seconds

Now if you do that, you still have enough interupts and can swap the two Leech Signets for Hex Eater Signet on both meses, since atm you have no hex removal, and anyway they already had points in Inspiration so you get some emanagement back :]

majoho · Apr 24, 2011, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aren

So i have made something like that, i plan on doing Vanq in Kurz/Lux areas for titles, i havent decided what my ele will run as (i have no clue yet). Pretty standard build?, tho any comments will be good.

It will work but really you'd be better off with a dedicated prot instead of having 2 healers and a half prot. Protecting is usually better than healing.

Also you're having both Soldier's fury and Aggressive refrain on your Paragon, I don't think that will work.

EDIT: btw. I've been using something quite similar the last couple of days (I'm playing as a SoS myself)

(it lack somewhat in the hex-removal though)

distilledwill · Apr 25, 2011, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

It will work but really you'd be better off with a dedicated prot instead of having 2 healers and a half prot. Protecting is usually better than healing.

Also you're having both Soldier's fury and Aggressive refrain on your Paragon, I don't think that will work.

EDIT: btw. I've been using something quite similar the last couple of days (I'm playing as a SoS myself)

(it lack somewhat in the hex-removal though)

Pleeeeeeaaasseee stop using Spiteful Spirit with Panic and Ineptitude.

If your panic/inept mesmers are doing their job your enemy will hardly be able to attack or cast and so it will be an utter waste of an elite.

majoho · Apr 25, 2011, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Wrong, SS actually works just fine with Ineptitude, you are right about panic and I'm not using panic for exactly that reason.

I think you are confusing something, mobs don't need to land attacks they just need to attack to be affected.

I know that the build is super heavy on shut down effects and it was quite intentional.

On the other hand taking SS and Mark of pain for that matter is just purely experimental I prefer not to use any skills that will make mobs scatter.

Daesu · Apr 25, 2011, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Heroes fail with epidemic because they can't tell if other targets are beside its primary target or not. They can cast it even when it is the last monster left standing.

What do you need anthem of envy for? You have no offensive spirits or attack skills other than chest thumper which I am not sure if it is good on heroes.

Icy veins and rising bile are meh. The rest seems ok.

SongOf · Apr 25, 2011, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Regarding Anthem of Envy, he said he's SoS so that's fine

Epidemic is pointless because the condition-causing skills are AoE already. I believe Epidemic can be used to trigger Fragility dmg, but that's missing from his build anyway.

I personally would swap the 2nd copy of Prot Spirit for SoA or Guardian. There is no substitute for taking 0 damage.

Most people will recommend swapping out Death Pact Signet for FoMF, however I find in builds with both healing and prot, Resurrection Chant on the mes is more efficient and relieves pressure off the healer. The healer just heals the mes to full health, instead of 2 heroes at 50% health.

Lanier · Apr 25, 2011, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

It will work but really you'd be better off with a dedicated prot instead of having 2 healers and a half prot. Protecting is usually better than healing.

Also you're having both Soldier's fury and Aggressive refrain on your Paragon, I don't think that will work.

EDIT: btw. I've been using something quite similar the last couple of days (I'm playing as a SoS myself)

(it lack somewhat in the hex-removal though)

You've only got 2 heals??? That seems somewhat... insufficient. I would either all together remove the IV and replace it with a WoH, HB, or healers burst monk, or drop rising bile and putrid bile and replace with soothing memories and maybe weapon of warding (I have found this skill to be exceedingly useful).

You are correct, SF and AR dont work together.

As for your paragon, I recommend dropping weaken armor and chest thumper. Replace chest thumper with vicious attack. If you want to take weaken armor (I woundn't... most of your damage is armor ignoring), put it on the curses necro. This frees up room on your paragon for another attack skill or anthem of disruption/weariness.

majoho · Apr 25, 2011, 05:18 PM // 17:18

First I never said the build was really good or anything I was just showing it as an alternative to that other guy that posted, I'm still experimenting with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Heroes fail with epidemic because they can't tell if other targets are beside its primary target or not. They can cast it even when it is the last monster left standing.

What do you need anthem of envy for? You have no offensive spirits or attack skills other than chest thumper which I am not sure if it is good on heroes.

Icy veins and rising bile are meh. The rest seems ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SongOf

Epidemic is pointless because the condition-causing skills are AoE already. I believe Epidemic can be used to trigger Fragility dmg, but that's missing from his build anyway.

I personally would swap the 2nd copy of Prot Spirit for SoA or Guardian. There is no substitute for taking 0 damage.

Most people will recommend swapping out Death Pact Signet for FoMF, however I find in builds with both healing and prot, Resurrection Chant on the mes is more efficient and relieves pressure off the healer. The healer just heals the mes to full health, instead of 2 heroes at 50% health.

I actually find that Epidemic is used properly BUT not nearly often enough, I had it mainly for spreading the deep wound condition but have now replaced it with shatter hex. (and changed the MM to not have Empathic removal since he's barely ever casting it, apparently death nova has priority over everything else ALL the time.)

You're right about rising bile, if mobs die too quickly it doesn't do much damage - Icy Veins works well though.

I use death pact because it's a very fast ress on a mesmer, Ress. chant would still take a long time to cast.

And I never take ressers on healers, if one person dies and they start casting it in battle it increases chances of a wipe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

As for your paragon, I recommend dropping weaken armor and chest thumper. Replace chest thumper with vicious attack. If you want to take weaken armor (I woundn't... most of your damage is armor ignoring), put it on the curses necro. This frees up room on your paragon for another attack skill or anthem of disruption/weariness.

Trust me I've thought that very well through and tested it that particular thing for quite a while.

If I call a target the necro won't start with weaken armor, the paragon will ALWAYS do it and correctly use Chest thumper afterwards - basically it's an UNCONDITIONAL ranged deep wound every 6-7 seconds if I need it (obviously I could use a DW ability on my player character but for now I can't find room for it - I should probably dump Vampirism for "you move like a dwarf" though).

And it's 3 heals but it works - I am however considering replacing some of the prots on the E/Mo with heals.

SongOf · Apr 25, 2011, 08:51 PM // 20:51

FC on signets is treated differently than spells (additive, it's slower), so the difference at 9 between DPS and Ressurection Chant is 1.7secs, not a 'long time' at all.

Not sure where the comment about putting a res on a healer came from (I advise against it too), but in terms of 'increasing chances of a wipe', DPS is up there lol.

majoho · Apr 25, 2011, 11:28 PM // 23:28

I know it's different, but DPS is already the fastes ress there is (as I recall) and at 8 fast casting it's a cast of around 2.2 secs where as Res Chant is 4 seconds - in combat that 1.7-1.8 seconds (possibly without a healer) IS a long time.

And the comment on res on a healer was just a general comment I added just in case

Califorun · Apr 26, 2011, 09:45 AM // 09:45

So I gather from the above discussion that Spiteful Spirit is not so good when coupled with Panic due to the interrupts stopping Spiteful Spirit's damage, but is Spoil Victor the same way? Should I switch to something else? I feel like Spoil Victor really helps against HM bosses and such.

I've been running this team-build with my monk friend(it's not technically a seven hero build, though I do substitute a hero monk in his place sometimes) mostly for vanquishing and guardian but also with some dungeons in mind. So far it has worked quite well. Sometimes the group wipes due to a lot of sudden splash damage, but that's probably my fault for not always knowing if/what to ping and for not microing Panic...

I'm also not running a real minion bomber; I prefer to have a minion master for reliable damage via Barbs and Mark of Pain - hence the Blood Bond and Blood of the Master to maintain the wall of minions; I don't want him to be caught up spamming Death Nova. However I sort of wish I could fit in Death Nova and/or another Splinter Weapon for more damage... and I'm also not sure whether or not fragility belongs in this build without Fevered Dreams or something like that. Any further suggestions would be enlightening!

AndrewSX · Apr 26, 2011, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Well, supposing you will put a UA Monk instead of the human monk...

-I'd get rid of the SS sig on you: enough resses.

-Bone Horror for bone minions. I know, is 1 instead of 2, but will be stronger, and using aotl get 11 minions will not be a problem.

-I'd replace spirit burn for something else, another chan spell(spirit rift or such) or a para comm shout(stand your ground/anthem of XX). You could slot another shout on MM instead of putrid if you need it.

-Mesmers are quite standard, nothing to say.

-Tbh, i'd prefer to spec the first Nec in blood(moving away from prots) and then use a dedicated protter(ER/ST blablabla). Blood bond is ok, but i'd put order of pain and mark of pain for the other 2 blood spells. If you prefer stick using 2 necs, change these 2 skills at least.
About SS vs. SV: from wiki:

Quote:

For 8...18 seconds, whenever target foe attacks or uses a skill, Spiteful Spirit......

Quote:

For 3...13 seconds, whenever target foe attacks or casts a spell on a creature....

Trigger conditions seems the same, so i guess SV won't work with Panic as SS.

I prefer to do not use Death Nova too, and a real MM.
But if you want to have it anyway, you could slot it on the Ineptitude instead of Fragility/not so much conditions as said). Raise Death magic a bit(sacrifice FC and bit of dmg/insp), and minions will still explode. FC affect DN, so is harder to have to hero caught casting it instead of doing his job.

HotSoup · Apr 26, 2011, 05:28 PM // 17:28

All I see here is people posting builds, and others critiquing. Has there been any work on any revolutionary 7Hero builds that can really steamroll through VQ's and missions?

outlaw161 · Apr 26, 2011, 06:47 PM // 18:47

if you got merc heroes...5 Mesmers will steamroll most pve very very easillyyy

Califorun · Apr 26, 2011, 07:04 PM // 19:04

@AndrewSX: Thank you for the good advice - I will definitely take it into account, although I don't understand why I'd want to use Order of Pain unless just to buff myself, because it only affects party members and not minions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by outlaw161

if you got merc heroes...5 Mesmers will steamroll most pve very very easillyyy

What kind of Mesmer builds would one use? Three with Energy Surge, one with Panic, and one with Ineptitude - sort of like in this thread? http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/m...t10477732.html

AndrewSX · Apr 26, 2011, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Califorun

@AndrewSX: Thank you for the good advice - I will definitely take it into account, although I don't understand why I'd want to use Order of Pain unless just to buff myself, because it only affects party members and not minions.

The idea was exactely that (when playing meele: buff/prot yourself as much as you can->win), but was just a suggestion. Dark Fury, Blood ritual(always useful for casters), any ench remover, Foul feast...you get the point.

Ah, and ppl running 5 mes uses that kind of build:2x shutdown(Panic+Inept)+ 3x lolaoedmg(Esurge). Or sometimes Keystone spam.

outlaw161 · Apr 26, 2011, 08:04 PM // 20:04

well id use 4 esurge and 1 panic...cus i dont find meele very hard on HM...mostly beacuse im the only meele in my team with prot spir Soa etc...

XxForgexX · Apr 26, 2011, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotSoup

All I see here is people posting builds, and others critiquing. Has there been any work on any revolutionary 7Hero builds that can really steamroll through VQ's and missions?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/o...t10475941.html

assuming you feel like sifting through 50% generic meta and 45% badly synergised garbage, there's a few good ones in there