Curse

Han Fastolfe · Apr 17, 2011, 03:34 PM // 15:34

i tried to go dragon slash sy spammer but it doesn't really work at To the rescue
because even if i micro convert hexes they reapply soothing almost instantly and even if i can keep it off of me i need energy to reapply scan every few seconds otherwise i cant hit because the gloom effect..

Azazello · Apr 21, 2011, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Been working on a build that uses pretty standard pve bars, but no mm or offensive spirits, a pair of melee instead. Two Scythes and two splinter weapons is a ton of offense, so I just run 5 defensive bars along with the melee.

So far tested in:

Raisu Palace - 9:57
Hell's Precipice - 12 minutes
Glints (NM) - 2107
Double pull outside Rata Sum (angorodon and raptor) - 0 deaths
VQs - Majesty's rest, Joko's domain

Only micromanagement of heroes was 'flag all'. Will post times for ToPK and FoW in the next few days. Also took it to Rand/Thommis with one modification, FS instead of enfeebling blood, but posted a pretty poor time of 32 minutes.

mortenya · Apr 21, 2011, 08:21 PM // 20:21

will an ST prot hero reliably cast shelter before union? or is that just microed?

hunter · Apr 21, 2011, 08:28 PM // 20:28

trash the hero Derv, since melee AI is rediculously bad. Sub in a smiter monk.
Change 1 rit to SoS resto. remove necro channeler (hero 7) and throw in a proper UA monk)

Bar #8 can be whatever you want, either 3rd mes, or ER prot or even command para (though not recommended since para heroes suck)

Azazello · Apr 21, 2011, 09:10 PM // 21:10

@Mortenya, tbh, I haven't even watched her. It's up correctly often enough however, to the point where it stands out if I take full 10% of my health from some attack.

@Hunter bar 8 is me, both dervs are heroes, and they do just fine. They're retarded of course (mainly in regards to aoe dots), but since they kill everything in seconds, it doesn't matter. Swapping out a splinter weapon would change that dramatically. I've run it with a smiter (RoJ/JI/SoH/inspiration stuff iirc) and it does improve the killing speed but it takes a whole bar to do what one skill does.

It's still worthwhile if you want to drop defense. Consider JI adds about 14-15 damage to a scythe, SoH @14 adds 24, you're looking at 38 damage added per hit, dervs attacking once a second = 38 dps per target being hit per derv. If they're hitting 3 targets each, you're talking about ~225 dps. It's a lot more than the ~50 added by a copy of splinter weapon @14 on 3 targets, or ~75 if there are 4 enemies adjacent to each other, but splinter weapon costs nothing to bring on most bars.

The whole build evolved by me dropping anything offensively that was hard to fit but didn't have much impact. The smiter had a fair bit of impact but took an entire bar to do anything useful and hogged interrupt space for emanagement.

outlaw161 · Apr 21, 2011, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Drop union...honestly from about 12 vqs with it...not worth the skill slot you only need shelter there

AndrewSX · Apr 22, 2011, 09:37 AM // 09:37

The only thing really wrong in that team is Preservation.

The rest is perfectly able to steam-roll most of PvE.

Azazello · Apr 22, 2011, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

The only thing really wrong in that team is Preservation.

The rest is perfectly able to steam-roll most of PvE.

Haha yeah I know but what else is there? I don't need more degen, I don't need more emanagement, I hate spending healer energy on elemental damage, weapon spells conflict with splinter weapon, and there's nothing else in any of those attribute lines.

I could run SoS @10 channeling, but I've been running SoS on my character lately. Tried AP caller, AP MoP nuker, AP death nuker, and SoS so far, the AP caller doesn't really work but the others are fine. Any kind of tank build would be amazing, I should figure something out.

Oh and @Outlaw, union prevents 410 damage, ~770 with armor of unfeeling. It's the worst of the three but it's still pretty good against pressure for 10 energy. You're probably right though, it eats ST charges for not much benefit, could definitely use a long lasting offensive spirit there.

So a modified version for a player not running sos would be:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3458/trial4nosos.jpg

Although agony might be better than bloodsong in that spot.

AndrewSX · Apr 22, 2011, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Haha yeah I know but what else is there?

Eh, i know. Resto elites are quite meh...this is the reason because for pure heals i prefer Monks.
Also, preservation is on the Nec/Rit...most of ppl use Icy veins as elite in that case. Reaper's mark/Wail of doom are SR elites too...but the problem is still there.

Azazello · Apr 22, 2011, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Yeah I typically run reaper's on N/Rt healers, but I just don't need any more degen/emanagement. I hate IV in PvE, does wail of doom work?

AndrewSX · Apr 22, 2011, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Wail of doom can be actually useful if used right. A ele boss in hm isn't really dangerous if Fire magic is set @ 0. If heroes use it right is another thing.

Anyway, considered the options, i'd say that if you don't want Xinrae/remedy preservation is pretty much the only choice. Not good, but the only who came to my mind atm, if sticking with resto nec.

majoho · Apr 22, 2011, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

If heroes use it right is another thing.

And also the most important thing, because if they don't your build might only work at 50% dps.

Often you can have a good build and the hero might also use all skills BUT rarely in the right order.

Like "Fevered Dreams" - 9 out of 10 times your hero is using that skill it will be on a mob that has 10% life and is already loaded with conditions. Ideally he should cast FD first but that not going to happen.

outlaw161 · Apr 22, 2011, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Haha yeah I know but what else is there? I don't need more degen, I don't need more emanagement, I hate spending healer energy on elemental damage, weapon spells conflict with splinter weapon, and there's nothing else in any of those attribute lines.

I could run SoS @10 channeling, but I've been running SoS on my character lately. Tried AP caller, AP MoP nuker, AP death nuker, and SoS so far, the AP caller doesn't really work but the others are fine. Any kind of tank build would be amazing, I should figure something out.

Oh and @Outlaw, union prevents 410 damage, ~770 with armor of unfeeling. It's the worst of the three but it's still pretty good against pressure for 10 energy. You're probably right though, it eats ST charges for not much benefit, could definitely use a long lasting offensive spirit there.

So a modified version for a player not running sos would be:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3458/trial4nosos.jpg

Although agony might be better than bloodsong in that spot.

Yeah its decent...but when u think of it most fights the enemy shouldnt do so much damage and union just doesnt worth it 15 dmg reduce...Dissosnce can inturpt also reducing damage beacuse skill isnt casted against you and also cause more DPS

Ghull Ka · Apr 22, 2011, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by outlaw161

Yeah its decent...but when u think of it most fights the enemy shouldnt do so much damage and union just doesnt worth it 15 dmg reduce...Dissosnce can inturpt also reducing damage beacuse skill isnt casted against you and also cause more DPS

He could sub in a Weaken Armor for Union on that bar to help out the scythe damage. The only other cracked armor in the team is from one derv's Staggering Force, I think. I agree that the numbers Union suggests are nice, but ditching it means less chance that Shelter gets put on cooldown. I definitely don't suggest subbing in a different binding ritual. Leave them ST charges for Shelter.

With cracked armor in the mix, he could then sub in an Icy Veins for that Preservation - the elemental damage it does would be more meaningful. Heroes do tend to spam the crap out of Icy Veins, I think it could be a good addition with some cracked armor.*

I like having a couple melee heroes in the mix. Sometimes (not often) they can set up a nice body block and really make me smile. And I totally agree, two scythes and two splinters tends to flatten clumps of enemies pretty quick, especially if you can EVAS your pull to keep the enemies good and clumped for when your dervs get there.

*edit, note: i prefer reaper's mark on my n/rt healers, heh, but nobody here ever mentions it

AndrewSX · Apr 22, 2011, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

And also the most important thing, because if they don't your build might only work at 50% dps.

Often you can have a good build and the hero might also use all skills BUT rarely in the right order.

Yes, this is sure, and FD is one good example...hero bars must be fool-proof.
No timing required, e-management a bit overkill, no chain/combos.

But as said, the choice of the elite is the greatest problem of Resto line (both for Nec and Rits). Expecially if u want to avoid the weapon spell cancelling each-other.

In this case....if the choice must be taken from SR or Spawning elites....most of them have e-management roles. On a Nec isn't really needed, but this can free the SolS slot for something else. Summing everything up, on that 7th hero,excluding overkill e-management, Spawning/SR/Resto elites, i'd slot something from channeling. Sos if you're not using it, but i'd give a shot to Caretaker's charge(condition met easily, return e+hp dishing some dmg) or Clamor of souls.

AeonDemigod · Apr 22, 2011, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Been working on a build that uses pretty standard pve bars, but no mm or offensive spirits, a pair of melee instead. Two Scythes and two splinter weapons is a ton of offense, so I just run 5 defensive bars along with the melee.

So far tested in:

Raisu Palace - 9:57
Hell's Precipice - 12 minutes
Glints (NM) - 2107
Double pull outside Rata Sum (angorodon and raptor) - 0 deaths
VQs - Majesty's rest, Joko's domain

Only micromanagement of heroes was 'flag all'. Will post times for ToPK and FoW in the next few days. Also took it to Rand/Thommis with one modification, FS instead of enfeebling blood, but posted a pretty poor time of 32 minutes.

I used the derv builds for VQ with one splinter weapon and it went very smooth, I had 2 deaths in 3 areas I VQ.

Slabberdewatski · Apr 22, 2011, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I love this forum got alot of good new builds.
This is what i have now please comment.
Notes:
I'm not sure if the dual monk mimic is going to work, because internet is laggy i havent tested it yet.
Should i replace one of the monks (and which) with an emo or a st?
What about my own build does it need more enchants for the healing with AoD?
The SoS was my brothers idea, like this it does good damage, but not sure if its optimal.

Thanks!

AndrewSX · Apr 22, 2011, 06:23 PM // 18:23

In short:

Your bar is plenty of room for improvements imo.

I'd change te HB to a ER/ST protter: move the 4 heals to UA bars(replacing patient with Heaven's Delight).

MM in last 3 skillslots and SoS instead of Rift/Spirit Boon Stirke can carry lots of utility(smiting prayers/command shouts/resto heals/prots).

Mes are standard, should works fine. Dunno on para.

P.S: srry for short response, i don't have so much time for write down atm. :P

Vadog · Apr 23, 2011, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Now, want to test this

outlaw161 · Apr 23, 2011, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vadog

Now, want to test this

Fragilty isnt that usefull sisnce you dont have so much conditions
WW WS doesnt really work on heroes...they just spam it in the wrong time which casuses energy problems replace it

The rest is pretty good...I think you can find somthing more usefull to be than DWG...But its a very decent teambuild