Curse

bhavv · Mar 17, 2011, 11:51 PM // 23:51

I just tried this out on my rit, seriously all other builds will feel completely obsolete in comparison once you try this out:

The team is completely invincible with the player going as the soul twister, and it cuts through HM WiK wanted quests easier than a hot knife through butter.

It pretty much feels like the nail in the coffin for my Elly, too bad that my elly is my main title farming character

Jeydra · Mar 18, 2011, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaav

The team is completely invincible with the player going as the soul twister, and it cuts through HM WiK wanted quests easier than a hot knife through butter.

HM WiK Wanted quests are not difficult, not by the standards that the best 7H builds should be able to live up to. The build you posted isn't the only one that can "cut through HM WiK wanted quests easier than a hot knife through butter", and in fact I'll wager it's slower than other options, too.

Someone really should make a thread saying how wrong it is to say that so-and-so build clears all the VQs I've attempted / all the missions I've attempted in both NM + HM / all the dungeons I've attempted in both NM + HM, therefore it is good ...

bhavv · Mar 18, 2011, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

HM WiK Wanted quests are not difficult, not by the standards that the best 7H builds should be able to live up to. The build you posted isn't the only one that can "cut through HM WiK wanted quests easier than a hot knife through butter", and in fact I'll wager it's slower than other options, too.

Someone really should make a thread saying how wrong it is to say that so-and-so build clears all the VQs I've attempted / all the missions I've attempted in both NM + HM / all the dungeons I've attempted in both NM + HM, therefore it is good ...

I've already done WiK on my elly, rit, mesmer, and paragon and tried lots of build combinations, I havnt found any to be faster than this one.

I did suggest to try it out if you have a rit. I really havnt been able to find anything else that was as fast as Spiritway + mesmers + discord.

As for you saying that HM wik quests are not difficult, regardless of that, 90%+ of HM that people play in GW will be vanquishes, missions and WiK. Harder content is a very small part of the game, and really only limited to DoA and UW, so a build that is brilliant throughout HM vanqs and WiK will in fact be the one that is the most useful to people playing the game.

I've asked plenty of people to test it out and find me a build that is any faster for most HM content, so far I've not seen anything that would actually compare to spirits + discord + mesmers.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 18, 2011, 01:23 AM // 01:23

3x Mesmers (Panic, Ineptitude, Keystone)
2x Eles (ER Prot, Searing Flames)
2x Necros (Restoration Rit, Jagged Bones)
1x Me (Necro) on Spirit Spam

Haven't really spent more time on any vanquish than an hour and a half. This isn't even ideal damage because I'm going for Survivor the long way.

As for your build:
Why 4 Hard Reses? I also know for a fact that your Inept Mes is constantly out of Energy. Heroes don't use Overload correctly. SoGM is terrible for Vanquishing due to downtime on spirits. And is that... Black Powder Mine?!

Dzjudz · Mar 18, 2011, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Searing Flames?

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 18, 2011, 01:43 AM // 01:43

It's a vanquish. Average armor level is like 80ish. Besides, not many other options for high direct AoE damage that I haven't used.

Dzjudz · Mar 18, 2011, 01:58 AM // 01:58

It seems you have at least one Merc (3 mesmers). If you have another, I'd suggest ESurge domination.

spray04 · Mar 18, 2011, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I just tried this out on my rit, seriously all other builds will feel completely obsolete in comparison once you try this out:

The team is completely invincible with the player going as the soul twister, and it cuts through HM WiK wanted quests easier than a hot knife through butter.

It pretty much feels like the nail in the coffin for my Elly, too bad that my elly is my main title farming character

Weaken Armor is a waste because your entire team is doing armor ignoring damage.... And you're not making enough minions with vampiric and shambling

Elnino · Mar 18, 2011, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I think the damage ouptut of one Warrior without Orders + something else > the damage output of one Warrior with Orders.

I agree. I have one warrior with orders and something else (the rest of my team). Best of both.

Quote:

I used to think Prot Spirit is unnecessary now too until I tried to clear Ooze Pit with it, only for the three Prismatic Oozes to annihilate me.

Re-think your build perhaps? I suggest some more defense would do you some good since you couldn't kill/shutdown the Oozes fast enough. Maybe some micro management of your heroes too?

Quote:

If you die so rarely you never need Res Sig to be recharged, why do you even need Res Sigs? Why not just rely entirely on hard res?

If they never need to be recharged, then they are, in theory, hard rezzes. Charged Res Sig=Hard Res=Available Res.

I'd also like to point out that PvE has become so pathetically easy (as if it wasn't before) that no matter what anyone runs, it will almost certainly work. Does it matter if there are a few less-than-ideal skills in the build? No. The Henchmen were less than ideal but still worked. As long as it gets the job done, it is a working build - hence the title of this thread.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 18, 2011, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

It seems you have at least one Merc (3 mesmers). If you have another, I'd suggest ESurge domination.

Good suggestion. Average group lasts 5 seconds, kid you not.

bhavv · Mar 18, 2011, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

Weaken Armor is a waste because your entire team is doing armor ignoring damage.... And you're not making enough minions with vampiric and shambling

Weaken armor provides an extra aoe condition for discord so that enemies are more likely to be covered with conditions all the time.

All the time I've been using that MM build, I have had enough minions with vampiric + shambling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

3x Mesmers (Panic, Ineptitude, Keystone)
2x Eles (ER Prot, Searing Flames)
2x Necros (Restoration Rit, Jagged Bones)
1x Me (Necro) on Spirit Spam

Haven't really spent more time on any vanquish than an hour and a half. This isn't even ideal damage because I'm going for Survivor the long way.

As for your build:
Why 4 Hard Reses? I also know for a fact that your Inept Mes is constantly out of Energy. Heroes don't use Overload correctly. SoGM is terrible for Vanquishing due to downtime on spirits. And is that... Black Powder Mine?!

3x mesmers require mercenary heroes to be bought, which while I do have it, I dont feel the need to run anymore than 2 mesmers.

Searing flames is far worse in HM than discord is. I play an elly as my main character and exclusively used searing flames since NF was launched so I should know. I used to run several searing flames heroes and cynn in NF, and it was far too squishy and didnt kill stuff as fast as triple discord does. You have both lower damage, and lower defense with searing flames ellys in HM, there isnt really anything decent about running it once you try mesmers / necros / rits instead. And yes I had a ToF paragon with it as well, it was still worse than discordway.

4 hard resses because what do you do if the heroes that have your res die? You cant rely on just a couple of resses because if those should die then you cant get them back up. Also I've had my inept mes running around casting Renew Life no problem, Arcane Conundrum + WNWN usually provide a decent energy refil to use the res if needed.

The only time I take less resses is when I have UA. And once when I had UA and Death Pact signet only in my group (cant remember what it was I was doing, but it wasnt on my rit), both the UA and the death pact hero were killed, and then everything else starts dropping because the primary healer is gone, and so are both my resses.

About Black Powder Mine - put up spirits, place the trap where the spirits are. If enemies come to whack on the spirits, they end up blind. It works brilliantly well in UW spirit farming, and I tried taking it into PVE and it works just as well.

SoGM is fine for vanquishing, the spirits are usually recharched while running in between mobs, the downtime really isnt too long to make it inconvenient.

Quote:

Heroes don't use Overload correctly.

Yea the only reason I put that in was because I wanted to max out damage from the mesmers. I will be replacing it with shatter hex after it gets reduced to 10e.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

It's a vanquish. Average armor level is like 80ish. Besides, not many other options for high direct AoE damage that I haven't used.

Splinter wep, Mistrust, Inept mes, Desecrate / Defile enchantments, Ancestors Rage (couldnt fit it onto my build because I wanted my channeling rit healing a bit as well), Invoke Lightning, and even Sprit Rift are all better alternatives to anything from Fire magic for AoE damage.

distilledwill · Mar 18, 2011, 11:28 AM // 11:28

I agree - the only reason to use a SF ele would be to synergise with "They're on Fire". Mistrust, MoP, Splinter and WD will do enough AoE damage.

However, I agree with Kaida that you don't need 4 hard resses. I'd swap the Mesmer's res for Res Sig. You shouldn't be ressing very often anyway, and its super fast cast on a Mes.

My only concern would be a lack of Prot spirit (which shouldn't be a problem if you're good at protecting your defensive spirits).

Jeydra · Mar 18, 2011, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I've already done WiK on my elly, rit, mesmer, and paragon and tried lots of build combinations, I havnt found any to be faster than this one.

I did suggest to try it out if you have a rit. I really havnt been able to find anything else that was as fast as Spiritway + mesmers + discord.

If you want, post a time of something and I'll try to beat it.

@Elnino - you evidently seem like you don't need my help, so I won't offer it. gl PvE

I might try a mass Searing Flames build someday. Or Invoke Lightning. One or the other ...

NerfHerder · Mar 18, 2011, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Why so much love for Panic + Ineptitude and not for Psychic Instability (4s aoe ranged kd on 7s recharge...)?

Call me crazy, but I prefer PI over Panic on a hero. PI heros can spam WD, Mistrust, and CoF with less energy issues than Panic. It also has better synergy with Chaos Storm. And unlike most reports, my heros use Chaos Storm on a regular basis. Its not uncommon for me to see a caster KD in Chaos Storm with WD.

I'm not saying its better or worse than Panic, its just another viable option.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 18, 2011, 08:00 PM // 20:00

@Bhavv:
Honestly, I just carry Res Scrolls and pack one or (rarely) two Hard Res's. Deaths are blue moons in my parties, so I'd rather have the damage. Besides, everyone else is abusing consumables, why can't I? :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Splinter wep, Mistrust, Inept mes, Desecrate / Defile enchantments, Ancestors Rage (couldnt fit it onto my build because I wanted my channeling rit healing a bit as well), Invoke Lightning, and even Sprit Rift are all better alternatives to anything from Fire magic for AoE damage.

Splinter Wep: Check
Mistrust: Check
Inept Mes: Check
Des/Def: Nope. Not enough Necros and I still can't justify the 20 second recharge time/2 second cast time.
Ancestor's Rage: Check
Invoke Lightning: Nope. Maybe in higher AL areas or quality over quantity mobs this will beat SF. Not usually in VQ's. Already tried it!
Spirit Rift: Nope. Can't justify the cracked armor with what I run (maybe with the Ele). Besides, kinda rough fitting another 10E spammy on my Mesmers.

I actually switched the Ele to an ESurge. Works way better. If the fights were harder the Ele might've had some leeway, but everything dies too fast to make good use of him.

@Elnino:
Care to explain how you are shutting down the Prismatic Ooze? I'm 95% sure Jeydra wasn't on a Paragon, so Imbagon is out of the picture.

Also, Res Sig isn't a hard res. It's one of two soft res's.

As the experimentation factor wears off, people are going to start looking to master their builds. It's human nature. I know personally that I don't want to spend 3 hours on each vanquish, so I can understand them coming here wanting to perfect their concepts.

@Nerfherder:
I used to use PI, but I run 4 Mesmers now and it really steals away the effectiveness of the other party members. I could see it run with Discord.

XxForgexX · Mar 18, 2011, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Ray and Icy Veins are filler elites, i swap them out for better utility when i need it. and my warrior build is whatever i feel like playing at that particular moment

AndrewSX · Mar 18, 2011, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Whirwind Charge is probably the best ench to give at dervs spamming for trigger Avatar's effects.

mortenya · Mar 19, 2011, 12:06 AM // 00:06

do you ever feel a lack of interrupts?

i should try a build like that with my dervish

majoho · Mar 19, 2011, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aly Lightningstorm

Why do so many people use Jagged Bones instead of Aura of the Lich? I mean, I understand the minion multiplication part of it, but it's also nice to have strong minions that can take and deal damage on their own. Especially when you have an all caster, low armor team that shouldn't be getting hit too often by enemy melee attackers.

Minions can do a lot more than act as suicide bombers.

I agree for another reason.

Jagged bones/Death Nova/Blood of the Master makes the MM lag behind your group which can be annoying.

Personally I'm running my MM with Aura of the Lich and then I have Jagged Bones/Death Nova on my Necro healer instead works much better.

It's not ideal because I prefer to run Icy Veins on my Necro Healer but overall this seems better especially when vanquishing.

Voodoo Rage · Mar 19, 2011, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Personally I'm running my MM with Aura of the Lich and then I have Jagged Bones/Death Nova on my Necro healer instead works much better.

Generally you want to avoid putting death nova and minion stuff on a healer because in battle the AI will give preference to raising minions over healing.