Curse

Vadog · Mar 10, 2011, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Works well on pve. Vqs are very fast now.

spray04 · Mar 11, 2011, 08:59 PM // 20:59

My latest, any comments?

Marverick · Mar 12, 2011, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Take Greater Conflagration + Winter and then give +10AL vs cold shields, Sentry's Insignia, and Mantra of Frost to all heroes, for ~80% universal damage reduction and infinite energy.

Add SY! for a total of 96% damage reduction.

Add a ST Rit with Union so you take 0 damage.

Proceed to aggro the entire map and faceroll.

....

Profit!

Xenomortis · Mar 12, 2011, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

My latest, any comments?

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/6269/pve.jpg

Spoil Victor isn't particularly useful, Suffering is terrible and Eternal Aura is silly.
Patient Spirit is bad in that setup and on heroes in general. Words of Comfort is silly.
You have a lot of healing, but essentially no prot.
Solutions are Protective Spirit, Aegis and perhaps another hex removal. The player bar would benefit from a more judicious selection of PvE skills - Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support is awesome. A better elite wouldn't go amiss, but I'm afraid I'll end up only suggesting Assassin's Promise.

spray04 · Mar 12, 2011, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Spoil Victor isn't particularly useful, Suffering is terrible and Eternal Aura is silly.
Patient Spirit is bad in that setup and on heroes in general. Words of Comfort is silly.
You have a lot of healing, but essentially no prot.
Solutions are Protective Spirit, Aegis and perhaps another hex removal. The player bar would benefit from a more judicious selection of PvE skills - Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support is awesome. A better elite wouldn't go amiss, but I'm afraid I'll end up only suggesting Assassin's Promise.

The only part I agree with is that SV is not so useful... The shutdown mesmers have really made SV and SS useless and I've been having a hard time finding another elite. I think I'm gonna go with Shared Burden actually.

Care to explain why suffering is silly? Why is patient spirit bad? Why is words of comfort silly? I'm not sure I should listen to someone who tells me I need another hex removal in PVE.

Eternal Aura was just a throw-in, but I figured a permanent +100 health boost and auto-ressing whole party when you die is better than most skills.

I had prots before on my minion bomber, but I'm finding the dwayna's sorrow variant not bad either; that could go either way. Xinrae's and weapon of warding are generally enough when I have quite a bit of blinding.

Ebon Vanguard Assassin awesome? Lol, not really in HM. It's also only good when its recharge is reduced by AP, which IMO is NOT a good elite when you're not running discordway. I don't need the energy from it, I don't particularly need anything recharged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Take Greater Conflagration + Winter and then give +10AL vs cold shields, Sentry's Insignia, and Mantra of Frost to all heroes, for ~80% universal damage reduction and infinite energy.

Add SY! for a total of 96% damage reduction.

Add a ST Rit with Union so you take 0 damage.

Proceed to aggro the entire map and faceroll.

....

Profit!

LOLOL. Please come up with a full build for this, I will use it for sure. I'm dead serious.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 12, 2011, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Xeno knows his stuff. You can trust 'em.

Suffering is just bad damage for other options you could be bringing. Degen is generally useless in PvE due to the rate in which it kills things. Your build also has no need for blanket hexes, also making it's main function useless.

Patient Spirit is bad because Heroes do not wait for it to end for the heal, often leading to Patient Spirit --> Another Heal --> A lot of overheal/wasted energy.

Word of Comfort, when there are any copies of Mend Body and Soul, is a really bad choice, often resulting in sub-par heals. You are also using it on a UA Monk, and their forte isn't single target heals, but party heals and prots (due to only 3 energy pips).

Hex Removal isn't bad since you have a monk with options like Cure Hex that provide both a really powerful heal and removal (and the ability to have in-house 40/40 reduction). There are a few dangerous hexes that you may want to micro; having the option to remove them is always a good thing. On the other hand, bringing too much hex removal cuts down on your ability to pump damage, which is always the most important factor. Keep it to one or two removals.

Guild Wars is based around protection. The game simply isn't designed to be able to out heal damage. You are going to have to mitigate it in some form or another. Xinrae's is really your only option against the biggest danger, spell casters. Protective Spirit and Aegis both provide phenomenal results at little cost, so it is usually wise to bring them (esp. if you are going for survivor the long way).

EVA could (and should) be used in conjunction with Mark of Pain. It is a meatshield, a catalyst for MoP, and a knockdown on a 30 second timer. You are finding little use for Assassin's Promise because you have Eternal Aura, EBSoW, and Necrosis on your bar. AP is generally used with the powerhouse "YMLAD!", "FH!", and EVA. While AP won't shine as well in your hexway (of sorts) in comparison to Discord, it's usefulness and potency still can't be ignored. You said you can't really find a better elite, so why not use it?

spray04 · Mar 12, 2011, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

EVA could (and should) be used in conjunction with Mark of Pain. It is a meatshield, a catalyst for MoP, and a knockdown on a 30 second timer. You are finding little use for Assassin's Promise because you have Eternal Aura, EBSoW, and Necrosis on your bar. AP is generally used with the powerhouse "YMLAD!", "FH!", and EVA. While AP won't shine as well in your hexway (of sorts) in comparison to Discord, it's usefulness and potency still can't be ignored. You said you can't really find a better elite, so why not use it?

Thank you for giving reasons for everything instead of just calling things silly and terrible lol. I am thinking about moving prots back onto my minion bomber and moving cure hex to the monk over WoC. And then maybe ethereal light over patient spirit.

How's now:

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 12, 2011, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Ethereal light is for Healer's Boon. Run Sig of Rejuv if you really feel the need for another heal, however, I would suggest this given the nature of the other bars in your setup:

Unyielding Aura
Divine Healing
Heaven's Delight
Gift of Health
Deny Hexes
Shield of Absorption
Power Drain
Ether Signet
11+3 Divine Favor, 10 Healing Prayers, 8 Inspiration Magic, 6 Protection Prayers

I have personal preference for Shield of Absorption and Ether Signet. Other's might suggest Aegis and Leech Signet instead. Either way, this puts a power heal (only need one, you already have 2x Spirit Light), two party heals, a massive hex removal, and a prot on your bar. With a 40/40 divine set, your monk is gonna be crankin' out some love.

Dwayna's Kiss can also be used in place of Gift of Health, but keep in mind that heroes do not understand how to space heals properly. The 2 second faster recharge can put them in a bit of an energy crisis. Try both and see which works better for you.

Thunder God ll · Mar 12, 2011, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

More than 3 necros is a waste because Discords usefulness stops at 3. After that you get much more benefit from adding 2 mesmers and 2 rits, feel free to change the builds around however you like.

3 necs, 2 mesmers, and 2 rits steamrolls everything in the game.

Theres two different options for it, Discordway, or SS + SV + MM.

Also, I notice a lot of people using Icy Veins on their N/Rts. That skill is nowhere near as powerful as Discord would be instead, even if you only have it once because Ice Veins deals cold damage. All elemental based damage is beyond hopeless in HM.

After a lot of play testing with th 3 nec, 2 mes, 2 rit setup, I refined my builds to the following two, one is for discordway, the other for SS + SV depending on whichever one you prefer. I've only used the SS + SV builds in UW so far, with the MM removed for a UA monk, but the mesmers and rits are the staple of the builds, not the necros. If you are an elly bonder, the build works as it is. If you play a rit, go as a Soul Twister prot rit because its easier to control the defensive spirits yourself than it is with the AI just randomly spamming them. If you play any other class, change the communing rit to a soul twister prot:

Discordway:

SS + SV + MM:

I prefer jagged bomber on a normal MM build, aura of th lich works great too.

I also forgot that when I added fragility to the illusion mesmer, I also had Weaken armor + oppressive gaze to make better use of it. I'd swap both Shatter Hex and Fragility on each mes to Hex Eater Signet instead on those two mesmer builds, and they make a pair of solid staple builds that work with anything else.

Hello,
Would you mind giving me the atributes of the ele and the heroes in the 2 builds?
Thank you!

Illusiona · Mar 12, 2011, 02:33 PM // 14:33

^ How does one make neat templates like that? :O

gw teambuilder leads to nothing.

Sir Mad · Mar 12, 2011, 02:36 PM // 14:36

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...t10391290.html

Xenomortis · Mar 12, 2011, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

The only part I agree with is that SV is not so useful... The shutdown mesmers have really made SV and SS useless and I've been having a hard time finding another elite. I think I'm gonna go with Shared Burden actually.

Care to explain why suffering is silly? Why is patient spirit bad? Why is words of comfort silly? I'm not sure I should listen to someone who tells me I need another hex removal in PVE.

Eternal Aura was just a throw-in, but I figured a permanent +100 health boost and auto-ressing whole party when you die is better than most skills.

I had prots before on my minion bomber, but I'm finding the dwayna's sorrow variant not bad either; that could go either way. Xinrae's and weapon of warding are generally enough when I have quite a bit of blinding.

Ebon Vanguard Assassin awesome? Lol, not really in HM. It's also only good when its recharge is reduced by AP, which IMO is NOT a good elite when you're not running discordway. I don't need the energy from it, I don't particularly need anything recharged.

Very well...

Suffering is bad because it's 15 energy for a fairly minor effect. Battles don't last long enough for the small amount of degen to add up to anything so it's essentially a wasted slot.
Patient Spirit conflicts horribly with heals on other people in the team. One person casts Patient Spirit on someone and then someone else casts another heal, essentially wasting one of the heals; this happens even in full, coordinated human teams. It's worse with heroes because they prioritise which heals to use badly, if at all (Patient on someone below 30% and taking damage?).
Words of Comfort conflicts with MBAS; you want conditions pulled really, so WoC shouldn't be getting the bonus, you might as well just use DKiss (which you already have) and you don't need more then two single target heals. In your setup, you only really need one (DKiss or Gift of Health) on the UA.

EVAS is good because it's an extra physical on the field that will trigger Barbs and Mark of Pain, draw incoming fire and potentially knock down an enemy. It doesn't need AP to be good, but like all caster damage skills with a recharge of 10 seconds or more, benefits greatly from it.

Assassin's Promise is an excellent elite, even without Discord (which is a subpar setup anyway). A human Elementalist or Mesmer looking to do damage that doesn't bring AP is simply doing it wrong. I would say the same of the Necromancer, but I'm not comfortable with saying that AP-MoP outdamages Minions builds (probably in very coordinated setups and you get an excellent spike).

In your revised setup my immediate suggestion would be to remove Soul Barbs (2 second cast, 10 energy and a long recharge for a skill that does very little) from your bar (viable replacements are annoying to find now in Curses, Shadow of Fear is ok, as is Reckless Haste if you change the elite) and Ethereal Light from the Monk's. Ethereal Light sort of works fine with Healer's Boon due to the reduced cast time, but is terrible otherwise. If the monk tries to use it when under attack, he'll simply waste energy. Your UA doesn't need two simple single target heals, you already have lots. Deny Hexes is fine, so is Shield of Absorption if you alter the specs slightly.

Hunting for viable Curses elites kinda sucks (hence why AP is such an immediately obvious option), Pain of Disenchantment at least does damage and can assist in spiking a target down that's being kept up by enchantments (happens rarely, I know; Mark of Protection on Dolyak Masters, Spirit Bond and Guardian from Stone Summit Defenders).

The next suggestion would be the removal of the N/Rt for another damage character. After that I'm just changing everything about the build.

I Nathanos I · Mar 12, 2011, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Hello spray04,

I'm currently running this build and it works like a charm, may be need a little tweak but that would be an over kill if not already !

Sorry I don't know how to post them like you but I'll leave the templates in here, suggestions always welcome.

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OANEUshd9JFzoAWFgGUPEQY0M9B

OAhjUwGZYSxMKgVBTODTSTjTVVA

OAhkUwG4RFmTM7oaH6EDTpJ1uqC

OQhkAgB8gGKUGERQGQeGC4KwLQyF

OQhkAgC8gGKTGkIkB6BXgcANI5C

OACjEqiMJOMzhp0cyVOvmVzLGA

OACjAyhDJPZuo9Zbz9Nd2OzLGA

Cheers.

spray04 · Mar 12, 2011, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

In your revised setup my immediate suggestion would be to remove Soul Barbs (2 second cast, 10 energy and a long recharge for a skill that does very little) from your bar (viable replacements are annoying to find now in Curses, Shadow of Fear is ok, as is Reckless Haste if you change the elite) and Ethereal Light from the Monk's. Ethereal Light sort of works fine with Healer's Boon due to the reduced cast time, but is terrible otherwise. If the monk tries to use it when under attack, he'll simply waste energy. Your UA doesn't need two simple single target heals, you already have lots. Deny Hexes is fine, so is Shield of Absorption if you alter the specs slightly.

Hunting for viable Curses elites kinda sucks (hence why AP is such an immediately obvious option), Pain of Disenchantment at least does damage and can assist in spiking a target down that's being kept up by enchantments (happens rarely, I know; Mark of Protection on Dolyak Masters, Spirit Bond and Guardian from Stone Summit Defenders).

The next suggestion would be the removal of the N/Rt for another damage character. After that I'm just changing everything about the build.

Ok, thanks for the long explanation. I'm taking Kaida's and your advice on making the monk Gift of Health, SoA, and Deny Hexes. About Soul Barbs though, I found it does excellent damage on single targets - it triggers about 10 times with all the hexes that my Mesmers and my Necros are bringing; that's about 300 damage, still not worth it?

How about Feast of Corruption on my necro? As to necros' bringing damage, is spamming Necrosis really that much worse than taking up the elite slot with AP in order to use EVAS? I also don't like AP on necros in general - half of its effect, which is to give energy, I already get from soul reaping so it's wasted.

Dzjudz · Mar 12, 2011, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder God ll

Hello,
Would you mind giving me the atributes of the ele and the heroes in the 2 builds?
Thank you!

You can figure this out easily for yourself. The attribute with the most benefit of an extra +1 (usually, but not always, the elite's attribute) get a rune on the head piece. Other attributes used in the build get a +1 on the body somewhere. +1 to primary attribute as well.

Then just allocate skill points for logical attribute levels.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 12, 2011, 10:35 PM // 22:35

You are going to want 14 Energy Storage on the Ele, which is a +1 rune and the +1 headpiece. Pump prot to at least 9 to get the time on Aegis. Possible to go higher, since infuse doesn't need a bunch of points to have good returns.

@spray: When you are chaining EVA, "YMLAD!", and "FH!", you are burning 35 energy per round of AP, minimum. 10ish from soul reaping isn't enough; the extra +12ish from AP helps a bunch when maintaining energy levels. Soul Barbs isn't recommended because it just takes too long to do anything. If it had some sort of AoE effect, it might be worth it, but as for now, the end result doesn't justify the usage.

To be quite honest though, you do have wiggle room to have some fun. Ultimately, that's what the game is here for. If you like some of these skills, go ahead and use 'em! You can save running optimal builds for DoA and UW.

spray04 · Mar 12, 2011, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Alrite, new attempt lol. I've found that a pet build actually works nicely with what I have. What do you think? Now I have EVA and pet as physical triggers. I'm also carrying a spear so good benefits from Never Rampage Alone. Should I switch out Heal as One for Enraged Lunge for deep wound though...

novawhiz · Mar 13, 2011, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

Alrite, new attempt lol. I've found that a pet build actually works nicely with what I have. What do you think? Now I have EVA and pet as physical triggers. I'm also carrying a spear so good benefits from Never Rampage Alone. Should I switch out Heal as One for Enraged Lunge for deep wound though...

i dont really understand the point of you going /R and trying to force physical. IMO, just run a stand necro damage bar.

the whole pet/mop/splinter thing seems kinda outta place

Voodoo Rage · Mar 13, 2011, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Does Waste Not Want Not actually work in PvE? How effective is it? It seems that my heroes don't use it.

spray04 · Mar 13, 2011, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

i dont really understand the point of you going /R and trying to force physical. IMO, just run a stand necro damage bar.

the whole pet/mop/splinter thing seems kinda outta place

What's a standard necro damage bar? See if you can actually give me a good one. Don't say SS... Oh well, maybe I'll just go with FoC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Does Waste Not Want Not actually work in PvE? How effective is it? It seems that my heroes don't use it.

I see them use it. I'm choosing it over leech signet because I might have too many interrupts, and unlike leech signet which may not return energy, WNWN is strictly energy management.