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Jan 06, 2012, 05:22 PM // 17:22
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#1 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Trouble with heroes
Hey guys.
I just started playing a few days ago. I've been having a lot of difficulty on nearly all missions - even the npcs you have to fight through before the mission. I eventually get it done most of the time but after several deaths. As I am progressing further I am failing more and I had to stop the EotN storyline and go back to NF. I think the main problem is my builds (hero and mine.) I have tried looking into what most people use but I haven't unlocked many spells yet. Here are the spells I have and the builds of my heroes: -Spell List- Monk spells: Reversal of Fortune Shield of Absorption Holy Veil Blessed Signet Smiter's Boon Watchful Healing Heal Party Healing Touch Orison Healing Spotless soul Mend Aliment Words of Comfort Signet of Devotion Balthazar Aura Bane Signet Banish Castigation Signet Retribution Reversal of Damage Remove Hex Ressurect Healing Breeze Ranger: Throw Dirt Charm Animal Comfort Animal Pin Down Power Shot Savage Shot Flame Trap Kindle Arrows Storm Chaser Troll anguent Dual Shot Elementalist: Air Attunement Binding Flash Enervating charge Lightning Orb Lightning Strike Obsidian Flame Ward Against Fore Ward Against Melee Aura of Restoration Glyph of Lesser Energy Flare Inferno Liquid Flame Blurred Vision Freezing gust Mesmer: Cry of Frustration Diversion Empathy Hex Breaker Power Strike Shatter Enchantment Clumsiness Ether Feast Power Drain Necromancer: Life Siphon Strip Enchantment Unholy Feast Vampiric Gaze Well of Blood Parasitic Bond Animate Bone Fiend Death Nova Warrior: Critical Chop Disrupting Chop Counter Attack Power Attack Shield Bash Final Thrust Gash Savage Slash Sever Artery "Watch Yourself!" "For Great Justice!" Dervish: Vital Boon Faithful Intervention Heart of Holy Flame Imbue Health Mystic Sweep Zealous Renewal Chilling Victory Victorious Sweep -My Heroes- Ogden Stonehealer (Mo) 12 Healing 12 Divine Favor Orison Healing - Holy Veil - Signet of Devotion - Healing Touch - Healing Breeze - Ressurect - Spotless Soul Tohikara (Mo) 12 Divine Healing 12 Protection Reversal of Fortune - Shield of Absorption - Protective Spirit - Mend Aliment - Remove Hex - Ressurect - Watchful Healing Pyre Fierceshot (R) 12 Marksmanship 10 Wilderness 8 Expertise Dual Shot - Kindle Arrows - Savage Shot - Throw Dirt - Power Shot - Flame Trap - Pin Down Vekk (E) 12 Air 12 Energy Storage Lightning Strike - Lightning Orb - Aura of Restoration - Blinding Flash -Air Attunement - Glyph of Lesser Energy - Enervating Charge Gwenn (Me) 12 Domination 11 Inspiration 6 Fast Casting Cry of Frustration - Diversion - Shatter Enchantment - Ether Feast - Power Drain - Hex Breaker - Empathy Livia (N) 12 Death 10 Blood 8 Reaping Parasite Bond - Vampiric Gaze - Strip Enchantment - Unholy Feast - Well Blood - Death Nova - Life Siphon - Animate Bonefiend Koss (W) 12 Axe 10 Strength 8 Tactice Critical Chop - Disrupting Chop - "Watch Yourself!" - Power Attack - Counter Attack Jora (W) 12 Strength 12 Tactics Sever Artery - Gash - Svage Slash - Final Thrust - Counter Attack - Power Attack - "For Great Justice!" - Shield Bash Melonni (D) 12 Mysticism 10 Earth 8 Scythe Mystic Sweep - Vital Boon - Heart of Holy Flame - Imbue Health - Chilling Victory - Faithful Intervention - Zealous Renewal ((I also have MOX and Acolyte Sousuke)) My build is a complete mess too:13 Smiting 12 Protection Bane Signet - Banish - Castigation Signet - Reversal of Damage - Reversal of Fortune - Protective Spirit - Retribution - Balthazar Aura So as youcan see I have no idea what I'm doing! 
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Jan 06, 2012, 06:36 PM // 18:36
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#2 |
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Hell's Protector
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
Guild: Brothers Disgruntled
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Generally speaking, your heroes are initially suited to the level and area where you first acquired them, and should grow with you. It may be a good idea to continue with NF until you can equip your heroes better. It may also be a good idea to take some henchmen with you until your heroes are fully outfitted (a mix of heroes and henchies)
You didn't list any Runes or Insignias on your heroes or yourself. That's probably at least some of your problem. Check at the rune trader and/or wikis to see which runes/insignias best suit your build (and your hero's builds). You should, at the very least, have a Vigor Rune and a minor rune of your builds main attribute. Also, of course, you need to make sure you and your heroes have appropriate weapons, preferably "max". |
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Jan 06, 2012, 07:52 PM // 19:52
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#3 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Aug 2008
Guild: Fuzzy Physics Institute
Profession: E/
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If you just started playing a few days ago, you should most definitely NOT be trying to do EotN. Seriously. EotN is advanced PvE content meant for those who have substantial GW experience, max gear, a wide range of skills (including elites) available for themselves and heroes, etc. Just because you can get there at level 10 doesn't mean that it's newbie friendly, as many new players find out to their sorrow. I suspect a number of new players get turned off to GW because they got the bad advice to head to EotN as quickly as possible and got themselves trashed repeatedly by the foes there.
It isn't just a matter of builds (though good builds are needed), but general experience with how the GW AI works and various useful strategies and tactics for GW. Going back to Nightfall was a good idea, and you should play that campaign to completion at least. However, other campaigns also offer some good skills and elites, and you may wish to spend some time picking up those. For example, Ray of Judgement in Factions is a great skill that is absolutely essential for a smiting monk. (A side trip to Factions to pick it up is an excellent idea, because you will want it badly when you hit the Desolation in Nightfall. It can be obtained in the Undercity without doing any missions.) For your own build, I would suggest concentrating on straight damage if smiting is your goal. It's very hard to switch back and forth between damaging foes and protecting allies, especially for a new player. The first three skills you list are pretty much fundamental to any smiting build. Adding Signet of Rage and Spear of Light would also be worth while, and you can buy them in Kaineng City. (For a smiting hero, you will also want Smite Hex, Smite Condition, Judge's Insight, and Strength of Honor. Judge's Insight is important if you use any martial heroes, and Strength of Honor is important if you use any melee heroes.) You have a wide range of choices for putting your Protection points into something else, and smiting monks can use their secondary professions very effectively. You might, for example, go Mo/Me, adding interrupts, energy return, and/or faster recharge of your signets. One of my favorite builds for my smiter is Mo/Ra, with 12 Wilderness Survival: Serpent's Quickness (Ranger) Ray of Judgement (E) Banish Bane Signet Signet of Rage Castigation Signet Spear of Light [optional] Serpent's Quickness is a ranger stance that causes all the skills on your bar to recharge more quickly. The optional skill can vary at need. I usually use one of the PvE skills these days, but the Scourge skills can be useful at times, or Reversal of Damage, or even a ranger skill from the Wilderness Survival line. I find it to be a very flexible build that can be adapted to many circumstances. Your heroes do need a lot of work on their bars, but I wouldn't obsess over it yet. Take your time collecting skills, equipment, and runes for them. Outfitting a lot of heroes is expensive, and takes time. If Nightfall is progressing too fast for you to keep up with necessary hero upgrades, you may want to switch over to Prophecies for a while, since Prophecies has a much slower pace. |
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Jan 06, 2012, 10:37 PM // 22:37
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#4 |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Oct 2006
Guild: GWAR
Profession: Me/Mo
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Quite a few new players seem to be having problems getting into GW and I think some of us are responsible.
There have been quite a few posts replying to new players advising Start in nightfall grab all the heroes move to eye as soon as you can and get those. Now that's great on your 2nd or later character because you will have loads of skills unlocked. Some of the more thoughtful posters here have advised using Henchmen till they have learned a little more about the game. Its all very well racing ahead to open up the hall of monuments and start getting asura, ebon vanguard and norn skills. But until you get a good range of skills unlocked and know how they work you have no foundation to base your builds on. You will also have no idea as to how players and party builds can work together or cancel each other out. Sure we can give you a list of great builds but your still on shaky ground trying to use them. Please go slowly in the beginning and don't rush ahead to far till your more confident in what your doing. |
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Jan 06, 2012, 11:40 PM // 23:40
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#5 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: WI
Profession: Mo/
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i'd say the best thing you can do for yourself is get some elites unlocked. used gwpvx.com for some ideas on good builds to use.
also quaker said you didn't list any runes on your heroes, but if you don't have any i wouldnt even worry about it. you can roll through most of the game without ever having to do so, it is helpful if you do though |
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Jan 07, 2012, 01:10 AM // 01:10
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#6 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: May 2008
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You haven't unlocked many spells yet and so are in a bit of a bind; there're precious few good spells in that list and no elites too.
In this case, I suggest you use henchmen. They're inferior to heroes later, but for the moment they get many good skills that you don't have access to. |
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Jan 07, 2012, 08:15 AM // 08:15
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#7 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fishing Village in Wizard's Folly
Profession: R/
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Yes, you are certainly right in going back to Night Fall
 The hardest thing for you right now is that you really don't have any decent skills for your heroes. During missions I would suggest switching at least some of your heroes out for the henchmen, especially the monks. If you're heroes aren't level 20 yet, bring them along for your normal quests or any of the easy content outside of missions so they can get some levels. IF they are already max level though, you can just leave them in favor of the henchmen until you get more skills.For the build you posted: the first thing I would suggest is dropping your melee heroes. Melee heroes are sub-par in this game because of their AI. You can bring along maybe one of the warriors and your dervish, or just one of them, but all of them are just not doing much for your DPS. For your skills, it might help to unlock some more basic skills by making a couple new characters of that specific class and buying them from the low level skill merchants in the starting cities. You can also unlock some skills with hero skills points from Hero skill trainers. The most important skills you are lacking are some elite skills. When you start progressing through NF there are some skills you will want to try to capture with a signet of capture that will really help your heroes. I found some of the staple or basic elites that are fairly early on in NF for you to capture. - Word of Healing (staple for most healing monks): Capture from killing Hahan, Faithful Protector - Zealous Benediction which you can capture from Taskmaster Sadi-Belai in the mission Kodonur Crossroads - Cleave (for your Axe warrior) captured from Chor the Bladed in Marga Coast - Invoke Lightning (for your air elementalist) from Lushivahr the Invoker - Burning Arrow (for your ranger) from Admiral Chiggen or a little later get Expert's Dexterity from Bansheh, Gatherer of Branches - Energry Surge (dom mesmer) from Yammiron, Ether Lord - For your necromancer you actually want a couple non-elite skills: Animate Bone Minions and Death Nova If you have specific questions about builds, etc, you can PM me and I can give you my IGN for more help.
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Jan 07, 2012, 10:16 AM // 10:16
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#8 |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Oct 2006
Guild: GWAR
Profession: Me/Mo
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Once you get enough skills to fill out your hero builds much of pve becomes a lot easier to handle.
Tactics are also important so if you haven't done this yet get a long or flatbow and learn to pull enemies a few at a time. Set your party at a place you choose and then draw the enemy one to you. You don't need any bow skill as damage isn't the aim annoying a few enemies into attacking is the point to this. If you want a little more party strength set Livia up as a minion master, you don't need a lot of skills to do this as its quite a basic build. As long as she can animate a few corpses and heal them with blood of the master you can probably count on having a small army in most fights. My basic four person party for gw in start areas is Warrior, Monk healer, and Minion master Necro. Later I add an earth build elementalist, mesmer build based on the skill panic, a ritualist who summons offensive and defensive spirits. The final party hero varies depending on the situation sometimes another monk but often its a second ele or necro. |
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Jan 08, 2012, 05:12 PM // 17:12
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#9 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Thanks a lot!
I have been following everyone's advice and I almost have my build finished, but my heroes are still coming along slowly. In the mean time I have been using henchmen which is a bit easier than when I use heroes. I am having trouble with primary missions in the second half of the story. I have about 5 more missions in Factions, 4 in Nightfall, 1 in EotN (haven't started prophecies yet. All the missions are too difficult for me at this stage and the only way I can get them done is with help from a veteran. |
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Jan 09, 2012, 05:37 PM // 17:37
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#10 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Jan 2012
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I just finished my build. I am not sure what build I should give my heroes because there are serveral to choose from.
I also just got a ritualist hero. Last edited by Restorate; Jan 09, 2012 at 06:33 PM // 18:33.. |
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Jan 20, 2012, 05:54 AM // 05:54
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#11 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Dec 2011
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This is related to the OP. I only have Prophecies and EotN and I haven't finished either campaign. Are you saying I shouldn't be doing EotN and rather I should be finishing Prophecies first?
I've been doing EotN and it's going slow because each mission feels more like doing work/chores rather than fun. Not to mention the complication of trying to equipt and organize builds for all the heroes. But doing EotN is what I've repeatedly seen as advice to do because you get the heroes. (I also bought the merc hero pack before I knew what I was doing and that only complicated things even more.) Now the heroes did help me complete the Dusty River mission which I was repeatedly dying using henchmen, so I think getting heroes does have some benefit. |
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Jan 20, 2012, 06:19 AM // 06:19
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#12 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Apr 2005
Profession: N/A
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Quote:
Hit up EOTN as soon as possible, you don't even have to be level 20. The reason, EOTN lets you pick up multiple level 20 heroes very fast in relatively strong classes. Step two: go to gwpvx.com and find a build that you can copy. http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Player_Support is a decent example. (This is a good starting point, but eventually you want to experiment and customize what works for you ). I would say, after you've unlocked Gwen, Vekk and Xandra, head back to Nightfall and start unlocking the heroes there. In the mean time, visit various towns and unlock the proper skills your heroes need. You can find where to get skills at wiki.guildwars.com For elite skills, its usually easiest and cheapest to unlock with signet of capture, but some elites are just too far down the campaign, and would just take too long. For those elites, unlock them with Balthazar favor. Roll a PvP toon and run a few rounds of Jade Quarry. |
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Jan 20, 2012, 09:57 PM // 21:57
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#13 | |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Dec 2011
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When I think about I'm not sure how easy it would have been to run EotN missions when my character wasn't level 20. I'm about halfway through and some of the EotN missions are not easy even with my level 20 char. I'm still figuring out hero team builds (most of which I can't use because I don't have the unlocked skills). I don't like to think what the EotN missions might have been like at an even lower level.
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I'm considering buying a skill unlock package or two from the NCSoft store, which may have been ArenaNet's plan all along I suppose  
Last edited by Doctor Overlord; Jan 20, 2012 at 10:18 PM // 22:18.. |
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Jan 20, 2012, 10:30 PM // 22:30
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#14 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Random questions just to make sure you don't have anything else holding you back:
1. Do you have max armor? Monks should have 60 on all pieces, plus whatever insignia or runes you added. 2. Do you have all 200 attribute points? If you have 170 or 185 you need to do 1 or 2 of your attribute quests still. Tips for getting free skills: 1. Hero Skill Points. Nightfall/EotN titles give them every level, and each NF trainer has a different set (EotN is all the same set). Basically you can get a good 40 skill free skills over the course of an average playthrough, more if you title grind. Oddly enough, Hero Skill Points also give your character the skill, Anet was just on crack when they named it. 2. Balthazar Faction. Unlocking skills for PvP use also unlocks them for hero use. This is a really great way to get elite skills, particularly odd out of the way ones you want to stick on your heroes early. Any kind of PvP will get you enough faction to unlock an important elite or two fairly quickly. 3. Skill Quests. Depending on where you start, you could have a lot available to you. More info here http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill_quest. As for hero builds, the one I would call easiest, most universally effective, and powerful is a Minion Master hero. Find a way to unlock these skills: Aura of the Lich (elite), Animate Bone Fiends, Masochism, Blood of the Master, Signet of Lost Souls 3 Optional slots to add what you like. Can use any secondary for any set of stuff you want to add in (I choose an extra 1 or 2 Prot Prayers skills). Works great almost everywhere. Try to get a Superior Death magic rune on the heroes helm as soon as possible for max carnage. No, you shouldn't really be in EotN so early. Get the heroes there, fine, but it starts up a lot more difficult than the 3 campaigns. Prophecies is the easiest, Nightfall and Factions being somewhat quicker to scale their difficulty curves. As a general rule for hero strength, Casters > Ranged Physicals > Melee Physicals > Assassins due to how classes are balanced (heroes don't get the imba PvE skills physical palyers do) and how AI works (hero spell casting AI is generally a lot smarter than physicals in targetting and skill usage, assassins being particularly horrible). Focus your attention on your heroes in that order. For the most part all caster heroes are worthwhile and good to use, though monk heroes lag behind a bit and eles require rather specialized builds to perform well. Last edited by Kunder; Jan 20, 2012 at 10:41 PM // 22:41.. |
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Jan 20, 2012, 11:15 PM // 23:15
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#15 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Apr 2005
Profession: N/A
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Quote:
EOTN is the first thing any new player should go to. Even if you aren't level 20, the campaign treats you as level 20, and EOTN has most of the overpowered PvE skills, especially for casters. EOTN is also not harder than any of the other campaigns. In fact, I would say end-campaign Nightfall is considerably harder than end-campaign EOTN, because of specific boss mechanics that can make things difficult if you don't know about it ahead of time. On the other hand, a strong team build is more than enough to get you through EOTN entirely. |
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Jan 21, 2012, 04:52 AM // 04:52
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#16 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA
Guild: Geezers
Profession: R/
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Well, he managed to get Livia and Pyre Fierceshot, so he's actually managed to get through a very tough area of Eye of the North. But no, at this point I wouldn't sweat not finishing EoTN. You are probably better retreating back to the main Nightfall Campaign to work on unlocking lots of skills (although be warned, Nightfall will get hard for you later on).
Balthazar Faction is a great way to "cheat" and unlock elite skills for your heroes in areas you are far away from (Aura of the Lich and Panic comes to mind). You can buy Flames of Balthazar from other players if you want. I hate to say it but nowadays you almost have to have all 3 campaigns if you are going to have the right skills for your team (a lot of the best skills, including all the ritualist stuff is from Factions). There has been a lot of power creep in this game so unfortunately a lot of the foes and missions your are facing have been designed around a player possessing a considerably more robust set of skills then a single campaign can offer. Your life will get tremendously easier once you properly train and equip your heroes. Hero runes are pretty important and they are unfortunately really expensive right now. Weapons are pretty cheap, you can use whatever and your heroes will do fine weapon-wise. The 7 Hero Player Support team mentioned is really foolproof. If you can manage to work toward something like that you will be untouchable regardless of your own build. But minimally you want to try to have a good necro to generate a minion army, a good healer (a necro/rit works great too), and a good shutdown mesmer. And I might get flamed a bit for this but I hate to see a new player start out their GW experience using a smiting monk (IMO one of the least effective and least enjoyable ways to play the game). You might give some consideration to just trying out another profession just to expose yourself to different styles of play. Last edited by Voodoo Rage; Jan 21, 2012 at 04:57 AM // 04:57.. |
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Jan 21, 2012, 06:25 PM // 18:25
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#17 | |||||
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Academy Page
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote:
I will admit that getting 5 EotN heroes has made the Prophecies missions considerably easier. The EotN missions were aggravating me so I went back and tried the pre-Ascension quests which had been kicking my rear with henchmen (esp. Dusty River) but with heroes they went smoothly. Perhaps doing EotN just long enough to get five heroes then going back to Prophecies might something for new players to do? EotN might seem easy to vets who played it when they had already finished Prophecies and were playing with a level 10 alt but I wonder what how a truly new player would feel hopping into EotN when they've only played GW to level 10. Quote:
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Don't get me wrong I really love PvP and I really liked PvP in GW1 when I tried it 5 years ago but I haven't been keeping up on the meta-builds and tactics. As I said I haven't even completed the campaigns so I have less optimal skills, weps and armor. Will I be more of an annoyance or just useless fodder rather than help if I try PvP? Quote:
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Last edited by Doctor Overlord; Jan 21, 2012 at 06:28 PM // 18:28.. |
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