Curse

loopysnoopy · Feb 10, 2012, 01:57 PM // 13:57

A standard minion bar consists of a few things take this as an example as I'm not at home yet.

Elite: Aura of the Lich,Jagged Bones,Discord etc etc
Skill 1 Minion skill any will do use the 1 you like the most
Skill 2 this depends on a few things but lets go with it Death Nova
Skill 3 putrid bile
Skill 4 Signet of lost souls
Skill 5 masocism or another minion,foul feast,dark bond
Skill 6 opt
Skill 7 opt
Skill 8 opt

That then leaves you 3 optional skills most take monk prots most fill with curses or blood all depends on you

mdnjdevil · Feb 10, 2012, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cecedarling

Which I what I'm going to start doing. I've already stated it's bookmarked. That wasn't just for show.
What I don't get, is why there's people saying "it's such a terrible bar" and then not giving any examples as to what COULD be done. You're just telling me something that's already been said.

What the guy above me said. You'll see a good increase in damage output from that simple adjustment.

Axel Zinfandel · Feb 10, 2012, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cecedarling

Which I what I'm going to start doing. I've already stated it's bookmarked. That wasn't just for show.
What I don't get, is why there's people saying "it's such a terrible bar" and then not giving any examples as to what COULD be done. You're just telling me something that's already been said.

I'm sorry you have to put up with how people are acting here, I wish they'd be more helpful to.

GWPvX and, to a lesser extent, PvX.wikia (which is very outdated at this point.) is a very good place to start. Copy/Pasting builds from the PvE Hero section is lackluster, but effective way to grasp what heroes need to be effective, and how they work with certain skills. Do keep in mind that heroes need different kind of attention and can NOT run normal bars that we can. Even if the bar has no PvE skills, there are some things Heroes can not prioritize well enough to run effectively (energy management). In the same manor, Heroes do a lot of things better than humans can, which is why you'll see a lot of hero builds running interrupt and/or energy management skills like Waste Not, Want Not.

Looking at the old Sabway, Racway, Discordway, and even the new meta of Mesmer heroes gives you a good grasp on synergy and why it is so important to a really effective team build. Once you get even a halfway decent grasp of synergy, you can start tweaking your builds and even creating your own team builds that work well.

Side note as far as MMs too, It's generally good idea to think of minions simply as meat shields. The damage is a complete after thought. MMs are used in a lot of popular team builds because the whole team is caster-oriented, thus has no front line. Minions act as a sort of makeshift front line for body blocking and soaking up damage and hexes, or at least that's the idea of it. Even in non-caster oriented teams, minions are sometimes used simply because extra targets and bodies are good. This is why you don't see many people running anything other than Animate Bone Minions or Aura of the Lich

Shayne Hawke · Feb 10, 2012, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Definitely take a look at your runes again. Few heroes benefit much from any Superior attribute runes at all, and there's probably not even a handful of decent builds for which you'd want to use two. Using a ton of +health upgrades and runes to make up for the cost doesn't really count as an excuse to just dump superior runes on your heroes. Sometimes, you just really want the health for those HM encounters.

Xenomortis · Feb 10, 2012, 05:03 PM // 17:03

http://www.youtube.com/user/GWXeno

There are only a small handful of quests that cannot easily be done using the methods and builds shown in the videos on that channel. Sure, half the videos are for Slaver's Exile, but it's the same stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cecedarling

What I don't get, is why there's people saying "it's such a terrible bar" and then not giving any examples as to what COULD be done. You're just telling me something that's already been said.

It's easy to explain why something is bad. It's easy to spot potential problems.
The next step is seeing how to address these problems, learning what can be cut, what's beneficial to your team, what's detrimental, what's pointless, etc. This is harder. You then need to further restrict your solutions to what heroes can actually run to an acceptable standard; which isn't a lot.

For instance;
Your heroes have very little health; they all have multiple +attribute runes; limit yourself to one superior or one major attribute rune per hero. You hardly ever want for more.

Your Monks are ineffective and running out of energy; a symptom of a poor build. What's wrong with their build? Multiple single target healing skills that clash (Patient Spirit never plays out well), expensive party heals they can't afford (Heal Party) and redundant healing boosters in Healer's Boon and Arcane Mimicry.

Other examples include the limited scope of your Minion Master, the near pointlessness of your Me/N hero and the lack of any form of Protection past your minions and spirits.

It's hard to really know what to do until you see other builds; watch the videos linked to above, even though they aren't all WoC stuff and the ones that are are all dealing with Afflicted, it is in HM and it is relevant.

Before you do that though, if you want to test your ability to identify good skills, look through the whole of Protection Prayers. I consider exactly four of the skills in there as good skills that I might put on a hero (this is increased to 5 or 6 on a human, 7 at a push). Identify what you would have as the best skills out of that line that you would put on a hero.
Then watch the videos and then try to work out what my choice skills are (off the top of my head, only four prot skills feature in those videos, so it shouldn't be hard). Then try to work out why I choose those skills.

Another thing of note, and another reason why I opened with a link to a set of videos:
Your build really is not everything. The reasons for success and failure extend beyond the strength of your build; I hope that is clear from the videos.

CE Devilman · Feb 10, 2012, 05:52 PM // 17:52

(me) necro
OAVDIcNGTCO3kui1M3gmOVVahA

3x necro (1 well of blood necro)
OAhjUwGTIPxspwVIjNMncSzLGA
OAhjUwGTIPxspwVIjNMncSzLGA
OAhjQwGTIPWbin0cYyFAbV1kLA
monk
OwYT043AZySb6z3JnoBUiAZImAA
ranger/rit
OggjcNgsIPQzjr17xxMDnFsLGA
mesmer
OQBDAcwzQhQmO9A5ZrAIgOB8UA
OQhCAswDNw01Dyz5Ae6O4iB

use well of blood and U can take a lot.

Denim · Feb 10, 2012, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cecedarling

Which I what I'm going to start doing. I've already stated it's bookmarked. That wasn't just for show.
What I don't get, is why there's people saying "it's such a terrible bar" and then not giving any examples as to what COULD be done. You're just telling me something that's already been said.

Sorry, a lot of us are in the same position Wikia is in....can't keep up with the skill changes. I wish they'd setlle pve-skills once and leave 'em.

Skyy High · Feb 10, 2012, 08:17 PM // 20:17

To answer your question: 6 minions on a single bar is pointless because that hero can't do anything except summon minions. One minion skill with a 5s recharge + AotL will keep up with basically all your minion summoning needs, and leave you with 6 skills to actually do something to help your party.