Curse

ThousandBlades · Mar 06, 2012, 08:28 AM // 08:28

I used a combination of Dwaynaway's BiP minion bomber and Dillway's mesmers.
As much as I wanted to have a smite monk, I would rather have minions instead of RoJ.
So, what do you guys think? This build won't require mercs due to WoC.

EDIT: Fixed the build around a little bit. What do you guys think?

agrios · Mar 06, 2012, 01:28 PM // 13:28

3 Mesmers? how so?

The only way I see (without resorting to mercs) is to getting Zei Ri and turning Razah into a Mez.

Relyk · Mar 06, 2012, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Run esurge instead of shared burden. Enfeebling Blood over sols on n/rt, you can drop res on the healer to keep sols. Healer should have fomf in any case. You can possibly use castigation signet or union instead of Smite Condition, I don't find low spec smite condition worthwhile when MBaS is plenty of condition removal. Running MM instead of RoJ kills a lot of your offensive and you lose out on 16 spec SoH. Working in never surrender would be great when you only have two copies of PwK.

Olle · Mar 06, 2012, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrios

3 Mesmers? how so?

The only way I see (without resorting to mercs) is to getting Zei Ri and turning Razah into a Mez.

You just Explained it, no mercs needed.

Daesu · Mar 06, 2012, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Don't see why you need shared burden when you don't have an attack like RoJ. You might as well have an additional damage skill like energy surge instead.

1. You have a melee to hold aggro.
2. You have minion wall to help hold aggro.
3. You snare them to help hold aggro.

If you do 1. well, you won't need 2. and 3.

ThousandBlades · Mar 07, 2012, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

Run esurge instead of shared burden. Enfeebling Blood over sols on n/rt, you can drop res on the healer to keep sols. Healer should have fomf in any case. You can possibly use castigation signet or union instead of Smite Condition, I don't find low spec smite condition worthwhile when MBaS is plenty of condition removal. Running MM instead of RoJ kills a lot of your offensive and you lose out on 16 spec SoH. Working in never surrender would be great when you only have two copies of PwK.

Alright, so I guess I can drop one res. But will two resses be enough?

It's true, not having RoJ does kill a lot of my offensive, but I thought MoP might take care of that.
I guess I could also replace Smite Condition with armor of unfeeling.
I can put never surrender on my shared burden mesmer (I'll replace SB with energy surge), but what skill should I take off in it's place?

Daesu · Mar 07, 2012, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThousandBlades

Alright, so I guess I can drop one res. But will two resses be enough?

It's true, not having RoJ does kill a lot of my offensive, but I thought MoP might take care of that.

It is hard to use MoP with heroes unless you intend to disable and micro it. But if you still think it is worthwhile to bring and micro MoP, then using bone fiends make more sense than bringing melee minions as melee minions tend to spread out across different targets. Use ctrl-space to get your MM and fiends to target the same target.

ThousandBlades · Mar 07, 2012, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

It is hard to use MoP with heroes unless you intend to disable and micro it. But if you still think it is worthwhile to bring and micro MoP, then using bone fiends make more sense than bringing melee minions as melee minions tend to spread out across different targets. Use ctrl-space to get your MM and fiends to target the same target.

Yeah, I'm microing MoP. I really got melee minions more to defend my heroes, because apparently, having just shelter isn't enough to prevent them from getting killed in WoC.

Daesu · Mar 07, 2012, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThousandBlades

Yeah, I'm microing MoP. I really got melee minions more to defend my heroes, because apparently, having just shelter isn't enough to prevent them from getting killed in WoC.

With Shelter+Displacement, it should be enough to deal with most physical attacks. If that is not enough, you can also replace your MM with a SoGM rit with spirit wall and shadowsong. You can probably adapt a N/Rt into that role if you don't have mercs.

As a physical character your biggest threat comes from casters and their AoE attacks. If that is the case, then it is probably more effective to bring 3 dom mesmers with CoF instead instead of Ineptitude.

hunter · Mar 07, 2012, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Why 3 mesmers? That build has 0 synergy with your melee character. SoH on a rit primary = fail.

Get 1 or 2 smiter monks and put SoH on one of them. As melee in the front lines you will be bombarded with hexes and conditions. 2 copies of smite hex and smite condition in combinaiton with RoJ and splinter will decimate groups in a heartbeat.

take out 1-2 mesmers and sub them with 1-2 smiter monks. Put something useful on that ST Rit which does not suffer from a max 12 attribute ability. The difference between 16 and a 12 attribute spell (notably smite and SoH spells) will be quite noticeable.

Also take out that silly BiP necro. You won't need it. Don't listen to the idiot who was suggesting it, ur casters won't need it if you give enough e management and use a proper elite in there, like Aura of lich, or whatever.

The Curse resto necro is a joke as well. Have you been taking lessons from EFGjack on picking the most worthless elites throughout the game? Use proper UA monk. And no you won't be lacking dmg since you will be shifting the dmg proper DPS focused builds (like 16 attribute smiting prayer monks)

Relyk · Mar 07, 2012, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThousandBlades

Alright, so I guess I can drop one res. But will two resses be enough?

It's true, not having RoJ does kill a lot of my offensive, but I thought MoP might take care of that.
I guess I could also replace Smite Condition with armor of unfeeling.
I can put never surrender on my shared burden mesmer (I'll replace SB with energy surge), but what skill should I take off in it's place?

Probably Signet of Clumsiness or Unnatural Signet. Easy breakpoint at 6 but since you're using hybrid, you won't hit the 10 command breakpoint.

ThousandBlades · Mar 08, 2012, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

Probably Signet of Clumsiness or Unnatural Signet. Easy breakpoint at 6 but since you're using hybrid, you won't hit the 10 command breakpoint.

Alright, SoC it is. I can't seem to find an option on pawned^2 to set attributes for these heroes.. is there one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

Why 3 mesmers? That build has 0 synergy with your melee character. SoH on a rit primary = fail.

Get 1 or 2 smiter monks and put SoH on one of them. As melee in the front lines you will be bombarded with hexes and conditions. 2 copies of smite hex and smite condition in combinaiton with RoJ and splinter will decimate groups in a heartbeat.

take out 1-2 mesmers and sub them with 1-2 smiter monks. Put something useful on that ST Rit which does not suffer from a max 12 attribute ability. The difference between 16 and a 12 attribute spell (notably smite and SoH spells) will be quite noticeable.

Also take out that silly BiP necro. You won't need it. Don't listen to the idiot who was suggesting it, ur casters won't need it if you give enough e management and use a proper elite in there, like Aura of lich, or whatever.

The Curse resto necro is a joke as well. Have you been taking lessons from EFGjack on picking the most worthless elites throughout the game? Use proper UA monk. And no you won't be lacking dmg since you will be shifting the dmg proper DPS focused builds (like 16 attribute smiting prayer monks)

I'm not sure I'll need UA if I have both a resto necro and SoS. As for the mesmers, they're not for me, they're to blow things up and keep my team alive by interrupts.

MBaS will take care of conditions, and I have three copies of hex removals for hexes. If anything, the hexes + conditions will land on the minions, so I think I'll be fine. As for SoH, it's only 8 less damage at 10 smiting when compared to 16 smiting, so there's not a huge difference there.

I'm not quite sure on BiP yet. I thought that freeing up 6 skill slots on my 3 mesmers was worth the 1 elite, but I need some more advice.

hunter · Mar 12, 2012, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Again. The resto necro is shit because the UA monk is 2-3 times more efficient healing, as well as tons of AoE (healing) and get this, INSTA REZ. UA is propably one of the best elites in PVE as of right now because it effectively reduces any spikes that go through your shelter.

Also, you have no prot spirit, and no shield of absorption, which are the bread and butter of dmg mitigation. So stop listening to morons of these forums who like to stack mesmers and necros and use your brain. A warrior main should be played differently than a sin, much less an ele.

SoH at 16 smite might be 8 more dmg but when u use sun and moon slash it becomes 16 dmg, and when you WW attack 4 mobs it suddenly becomes 32. See where im going?
And no hexes and conditions will most definitely land on u and ur party

Premium Unleaded · Mar 12, 2012, 05:51 PM // 17:51

UA is only good if you're planning on dying.

Gabs88 · Mar 12, 2012, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium Unleaded

UA is only good if you're planning on dying.

C'mon how many times are people going to repeat this false bullshit statement?

If you have so much defence nobody ever dies, you have too much in the first place. Now and then, players or heroes die. You have bad luck, you get spiked, ST prot fails at shelter or minions get stolen.

Shit happens. And when it does, having UA is not an all bad idea. Not to mention that in a team with a single melee player you should have 1 smiter anyhow for the melee damage buffs along with the damage you get from usual smiting skills such as smite hex / condition and reversal of damage. And a UA + Smite adds almost the same amount of damage as a RoJ smite does unless you're balling up every single group.

Doug4130 · Mar 13, 2012, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Look up the 7 hero physway on gwpvx. Most fun I've had in gw in a long time, only time I had to use something else was when I wanted to hero doa

Wenspire · Mar 13, 2012, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

C'mon how many times are people going to repeat this false bullshit statement?

The best part about UA is the instant 100% rez. If that description wasn't in there, I highly doubt anyone would use that skill. Unless someone is dying, you are only making use of less than 50% of that skill's potential. In fact, if no one dies, you could also say that you are just running a gimped skill on the bar. That's why we say that the quality of that skill increases as the % chance of people dying in your party increases.

Gabs88 · Mar 13, 2012, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

The best part about UA is the instant 100% rez. If that description wasn't in there, I highly doubt anyone would use that skill. Unless someone is dying, you are only making use of less than 50% of that skill's potential. In fact, if no one dies, you could also say that you are just running a gimped skill on the bar. That's why we say that the quality of that skill increases as the % chance of people dying in your party increases.

WTF are you on about? "If that description wasn't in there nobody would use the skill?" Are you saying "If UA wasn't a rez nobody would use it!"?

Cause if you are, that's the biggest bullshit argument I've heard in weeks. And I heard some pretty bad ones last Monday. Of course nobody would use UA if it wasn't a rez, they'd use HB or WoH instead if they needed heals and RoJ if they needed damage and there wouldnt be any viable ressurection elites. Damn right they wouldn't use it.

But it IS a rezz, so lets stick with reality and not try to twist things around to make a point. Fact is a smiter with UA can retain a 85-90% effectiveness compared to a smiter with RoJ or Signet of Judgement and there's no other viable elites. Making it a very good support character and damage dealer just because of that alone.

The same goes for a healer with UA if you choose to use that, it delivers powerful healing without the use of an elite and there's not a lot of other viable skills to mix in there.

And yeah, the big selling point of UA is that you ressurect at 100%. Not 100% health though, that's not really a big deal. But 100% energy is, as especially heroes tend to give a very poor performance if ressurected with too little energy. It causes them to missuse a lot of skills and remain highly inefficient for the rest of the battle.

And in the end, if you have so much healing and prot nobody ever dies. You have waaaay too much.

When judging UA, you have to judge what you gain up against what you loose out on when dropping another elite. And very often you will experience that the loss is not a very big deal.

Wenspire · Mar 13, 2012, 01:45 AM // 01:45

"And in the end, if you have so much healing and prot nobody ever dies. You have waaaay too much."

Actually, I think this quote is far worse.

UA without the rez is a weak skill for an elite. It may be true that it is the best elite you can pick on that Smiter bar, which I will not argue about seeing as that tree's elites are already pretty bad. But on a healer or prot bar, it's rather weak compared the the other available one's. But it sure is darn good if you have a lot of deaths in your party, I will also admit.

Let me ask you, would you take UA if you knew you wouldn't be dying?

Gabs88 · Mar 13, 2012, 02:10 AM // 02:10

What zone would that be lol? Speaking HM i can't think of any. Not where there is absolutely no chance you wont be stuck between two groups and have someone get spiked to death.

Would I bring UA in to NM? Probably not. But then again, even if I did it wouldn't really matter even for speed. Assuming that the UA\Smite deals 1\8'th of the teams damage. And a 15% damage reduction when picking UA over RoJ or Signet of Judgement. The team is looking at a total damage reduction of 1,875%.

Thats less then a 2% damage reduction, hardly even noticeable.