Curse

itiscurtains · Apr 06, 2012, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopysnoopy

The thing here is gabs is the SoGm VS melee+orders is not as easy to say SoGm is the best. I'm saying this as if your in the battlefeild and not at the master of damage you will see SoGm has a few draw backs BUT so does melee+orders but meele heros Kite rather well but spirts have a fixed postion which is libel to AoE and general hate

I agree. SoGM is obviously one of the stronger hero builds around, but it does have its drawbacks. 1. It has a bit of a ramp-up time, as well as a cool-down time, and 2. Heroes don't use SoGM, or Painful Bond, all that intelligently, so they both require microing for best results. These drawbacks are pretty well neutralized at the Master of Damage, but out in the field they become apparent. An OotV hero with, say, Blood Bond, SoH and Smite Hex/Condition may provide less overall dps than the SoGM (once the SoGM gets going), but the benefits it does bring are immediate. It also offers far more utility than the SoGM, providing passive healing, hex/condition removal, and whatever else - Blood Ritual for party emanagement, Strip Enchantment, etc.
For tough areas, the SoGM might still be the best choice, but for zooming around in vq's/missions I prefer orders.

Gabs88 · Apr 08, 2012, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Screenshots will probably show up over time, haven't actually logged on to para last 3 days so gonna take some time.

And of course you can get similar times with orders as you can with SoGM. It's a single build out of 8, regardless of what you choose the damage difference is only going to be 20-50 DPS max spread across a full team of 8 characters. So it wouldn't really prove anything at all. It's still a bad build, and if you're gonna replace it there are many other better options.

Xenomortis · Apr 08, 2012, 02:47 PM // 14:47

An orders bar in the setup the OP gave would be the weakest bar in the team by a long way.
Two hero sins and a paragon don't give enough to merit the clunky template with its horrible spec, unnecessary skills and the associated pressures an orders guy puts on a hero team.
A SoGM hero adds a lot more in terms of both damage and stability than a Orders hero will manage.

Is Panic really necessary though? I'm pretty sure you could get away with ESurge.
And how do the heroes handle heavy blocking with Unsuspecting Strike? I know it's got a short recharge and high damage potential, but I'd be tempted by Golden Fox just to ease things along. Something like Golden Fang Strike might be pretty neat too on one of the Assassins.

Gabs88 · Apr 08, 2012, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Is Panic really necessary though? I'm pretty sure you could get away with ESurge.

It just generally makes stuff easier. Doesn't just interrupt damage skills, but also heals making kills quicker, hexes relieving pressure on team, blinds, and more. But more then anything it's a personal preference. You could easily get away with esurge i think.

Quote:

And how do the heroes handle heavy blocking with Unsuspecting Strike? I know it's got a short recharge and high damage potential, but I'd be tempted by Golden Fox just to ease things along. Something like Golden Fang Strike might be pretty neat too on one of the Assassins.

Not bad ideas at all. 1 with easy access to stance removal other with deep wound might work great. Unsuspecting was chosen for damage / recharge / bar compression as Jagged turned out not to work well with heroes.

Well, small update. Leveled Paragon to level 20 now and ran through EOTN. Also unlocked all heroes (5 mercs + 2 sin heroes) and done some testing. Roughly I'd say this build is about a 8 on the speed scale. And in that sense in line with many other metagame builds such as 7 Hero Player Support or 7h Discordway variants and most of the builds on the GWPVX Great Category. While this is highly respectable for a Paragon build that also probably would work for a Monk or Ritualist. It can't really challenge an AP caller or a build focused around a single physical player so probably won't be focusing too much on it anymore.

Changes done:
Smite skills + Prot spirit on MM (didn't need the defence)
Jagged Strike instead of Unsuspecting Strike on Assassins (worked better in practice), and Signet of Malice instead of Assassin's Remedy. (Since they use it allright)

In comparison to the times posted in the recent Morostov Trail times that were posted I'd say it can do 24-25 but not a chance in hell at doing 19-21. Haven't moved far enough in campaign to give it a test though and probably won't do for a while.