Curse

Lialith · Jun 18, 2012, 05:28 PM // 17:28

hm...

* what i absolutely don't get is why this build uses Drain Delusions? Wouldn't the Hex Eater Signet or Inspired Hex be better instead?

* what does that mean?: 'Silencing spear of defence for Technobabble; Cruel spear of defence for "Finish Him!"'

Daesu · Jun 18, 2012, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lialith

hm...

* what i absolutely don't get is why this build uses Drain Delusions? Wouldn't the Hex Eater Signet or Inspired Hex be better instead?

* what does that mean?: 'Silencing spear of defence for Technobabble; Cruel spear of defence for "Finish Him!"'

Drain Delusions are used against enemies for energy management. It lets you remove a mesmer hex on the target foe, to get back energy.

Kind of iffy on a hex-based mesmer hero build unless you are using fast recharge hexes (e.g. Overload) or hexes that gain you a benefit upon its removal like Phantom Pain or Ether Phantom.

Silencing spear allows the wielder to extend the length of time that daze would be in effect, upon casting Technobabble. Cruel spear allows the wielder to extend the length of time that deep wound would be in effect, upon casting "Finish Him!".

Lialith · Jun 18, 2012, 06:00 PM // 18:00

ah, waepon mods ;D i didn't get that...

And for Drain Delusions: Wouldn't the Hex Eater Signet or Inspired Hex be better instead?

Premium Unleaded · Jun 18, 2012, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Drain delusions targets hexes on enemies.
HES & inspired targets hexes on your allies.

Different mechanics.

Daesu · Jun 18, 2012, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lialith

And for Drain Delusions: Wouldn't the Hex Eater Signet or Inspired Hex be better instead?

Drain Delusions returns more energy than inspired hex and has a faster recharge because, unlike inspired hex, it doesn't get replaced with the hex that was removed for 20s.

Inspired hex would be better in areas with monster-only hexes because the skill recharges immediately since inspired hex can't be replaced by the monster-only hex that it removes.

In most general situations, however, Drain Delusions would be better than Inspired Hex on a human mesmer or a hero mesmer with a suitable skill bar.

Hex Eater Signet can be used too and it can potentially remove multiple hexes from multiple allies, but it has a much longer recharge time. In the case of Markway, you do not want the mesmers moving to the frontline just to remove hexes from the dervishes since Hex Eater Signet is touch-ranged.

HigherMinion · Jun 18, 2012, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

That is probably the general distrust of melee heroes AI that we have all come to accept. Melee heroes sometimes run around doing nothing in the middle of an AoE, sometimes they get stuck, etc.

Personally, I would replace the dervishes with mesmers and just use spears on my casters to trigger MoP. But if I don't have mercs, I would replace them with a mesmer and necro.

If you don't abuse MoP with VoS ,Sand Shards and Reap Impurities, you're not going to see an exploding mob, and the relevancy of MoP diminishes. But you're right, it was downvoted because he didn't test it and went with the general consensus that melee heroes suck. They can be unreliable in certain areas without micro, but in most of the game the theory of smash before you get smashed works fine.

Daesu · Jun 19, 2012, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

If you don't abuse MoP with VoS ,Sand Shards and Reap Impurities, you're not going to see an exploding mob, and the relevancy of MoP diminishes. But you're right, it was downvoted because he didn't test it and went with the general consensus that melee heroes suck. They can be unreliable in certain areas without micro, but in most of the game the theory of smash before you get smashed works fine.

Yes I have tried Markway before and it did perform well in most areas. It is a good and fun build.

I wouldn't call it a "glass cannon" but there are more melee shutdown skills and the melee AI still have some issues, so I continued on my old tried-and-true SoGM rit and ES/Mistrust mesmer. I can still trigger MoP and Splinter with casters wielding spears and minions.

Lialith · Jun 19, 2012, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Drain Delusions returns more energy than inspired hex and has a faster recharge because, unlike inspired hex, it doesn't get replaced with the hex that was removed for 20s.

Inspired hex would be better in areas with monster-only hexes because the skill recharges immediately since inspired hex can't be replaced by the monster-only hex that it removes.

In most general situations, however, Drain Delusions would be better than Inspired Hex on a human mesmer or a hero mesmer with a suitable skill bar.

Hex Eater Signet can be used too and it can potentially remove multiple hexes from multiple allies, but it has a much longer recharge time. In the case of Markway, you do not want the mesmers moving to the frontline just to remove hexes from the dervishes since Hex Eater Signet is touch-ranged.

but you undo your own hexes with Drain Delusions? hm... isn't that a big downside?

aspi · Jun 19, 2012, 10:09 AM // 10:09

With so many mesmer hexes in the markway build I would not worry about removing on of them.

Daesu · Jun 19, 2012, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspi

With so many mesmer hexes in the markway build I would not worry about removing on of them.

I don't think that is what Lialith is asking about. If the mesmer hero manages to cast a well-placed Panic, and another mesmer hero Drain Delusions it for energy wouldn't that be a downside?

If you list the mesmer hexes in Markway, you have:

1. Panic
2. Mistrust
3. Shared Burden
4. Clumsiness
5. Wandering Eye
6. Fragility

If the mesmer hero happens to drain Fragility, that is probably fine since Fragility has a low cost and fast recharge. But if the mesmer hero drains one of the other mesmer hexes, then there maybe a downside. I doubt the mesmer hero AI is smart about which mesmer hexes they choose to drain.

On the other hand, it may not be as big of a drawback since these hexes should recharge quite fast with fast casting. Furthermore, hexes like Mistrust, Clumsiness, and Wandering Eye do not stay on the foe for long anyway even without Drain Delusions.

With these mesmer skill bars, there are some downside to using Drain Delusions, but it is not deal breaking. I wouldn't use Drain Delusions on these bars since there are other alternatives.

HigherMinion · Jun 19, 2012, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I don't think that is what Lialith is asking about. If the mesmer hero manages to cast a well-placed Panic, and another mesmer hero Drain Delusions it for energy wouldn't that be a downside?

If you list the mesmer hexes in Markway, you have:

1. Panic
2. Mistrust
3. Shared Burden
4. Clumsiness
5. Wandering Eye
6. Fragility

If the mesmer hero happens to drain Fragility, that is probably fine since Fragility has a low cost and fast recharge. But if the mesmer hero drains one of the other mesmer hexes, then there maybe a downside. I doubt the mesmer hero AI is smart about which mesmer hexes they choose to drain.

On the other hand, it may not be as big of a drawback since these hexes should recharge quite fast with fast casting. Furthermore, hexes like Mistrust, Clumsiness, and Wandering Eye do not stay on the foe for long anyway even without Drain Delusions.

With these mesmer skill bars, there are some downside to using Drain Delusions, but it is not deal breaking. I wouldn't use Drain Delusions on these bars since there are other alternatives.

I feel like we should move this discussion to the Markway thread, but of all the hexes you named, some are going to be impossible to Drain.

Clumsiness, Wandering Eye and Panic are all going to be triggered before the hero needs energy. Shared Burden and Fragility are fine to be stripped because they are both AoE hexes and fast recharging. Drain is single-target, so it's all good.

Daesu · Jun 20, 2012, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

I feel like we should move this discussion to the Markway thread, but of all the hexes you named, some are going to be impossible to Drain.

Yeah you are probably right. Chances are they won't be the ones that get drained because they don't last long.

Quote:

Clumsiness, Wandering Eye and Panic are all going to be triggered before the hero needs energy. Shared Burden and Fragility are fine to be stripped because they are both AoE hexes and fast recharging. Drain is single-target, so it's all good.

Yes the downside is not as bad assuming that the hero manages to cast it on a number of nearby foes. The hero AI doesn't consider those decisions when it casts spells so I expect there will be times when Shared Burden or even Panic would be cast on single targets. But like I said, there is a downside but it is small.

Lialith · Jun 24, 2012, 05:03 PM // 17:03

i used the markway build now for some time and it works nicely most of the time. ... thank you guys! ... today i totally failed in the gate of anguish areas though... :/
is there a better build for that? or is it just not possible to do that area with heros? or should it work and i am doing something wrong?

HigherMinion · Jun 24, 2012, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lialith

i used the markway build now for some time and it works nicely most of the time. ... thank you guys! ... today i totally failed in the gate of anguish areas though... :/
is there a better build for that? or is it just not possible to do that area with heros? or should it work and i am doing something wrong?

DoA is more a matter of tactics... Pulling smalll mobs at a time, balling and taking out as many foes at once. Builds are largely irrelevant in hero teams as long as you have a healer and ST rit.

Lialith · Jun 24, 2012, 07:48 PM // 19:48

ok, thank you!