Curse

Plutoman · Sep 21, 2011, 09:55 PM // 21:55

It very well could. ^^ I'm not a melee player, so I don't know that much on how that works, however, generally I have the team flagged back, and as the mobs get to be a bit much, I unflag them, hopefully having the enemies balled up attacking me, while my team comes in to hit with AoE.

You might try micro'ing prot spirit and spirit bond onto you - it might make a difference

Otherwise, just equipping some weapons should help. When I first tried, I didn't use anything special, but I'm also a ranged attacker through spells, so being up close may make a difference. Did you try my melee version? It may work fairly well in gloom NM, and may help you drop them fast enough to make the difference - again though, I'm not exactly a melee player! My melee version is theory-crafted, not tested.

shanaya · Sep 22, 2011, 08:30 AM // 08:30

I've tried this team build to try and get through Foundry NM and kill The Fury but I must be doing something basically wrong because I have three times wiped in the second room. Prior to that I used Primitiveworker's build as shown here:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/d...472576p12.html

With this I got all the way to The Fury without any major problems and then The Fury and his sidekicks totally kicked my ass, partly because I didn't prepare for them popping up.

I know Dillway has been used successfully so I must need to change my tactics. It seems as if the problem is with Shelter not being maintained. Do you need to micro it always? Any suggestions gratefully received.

Plutoman · Sep 22, 2011, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Well, I really do need to get on that DoA write-up..

When you have troubles, the best bet is to add on a bit of micro - flagging is the easiest start. The second and third rooms take a bit of thought.

I'll put up screens as soon as I'm able - however, what I do in the second room is flag a line of mesmers, and put the backline behind them. What this means is as you walk into the room, and look directly across to the farthest point (so basically as you walk in straight, turn a little to the right), flag a line across the room (about nearby distance from each other) and put the backline in the corner you've walked in from. Then, you walk in towards the center, and as the spawns pop up, the mesmers are separated from each other, but all within distance to hit the spawns, while the backline is safe. When the second spawn hits, you may or may not still be flagged at this point, you may have to unflag to catch stragglers - hit off shared burden onto the middle, and panic if you can also. Making sure shelter is up before the second spawn hits is probably good, too.

For the third room, follow the right wall until you get to the very corner of it - you have to pause midway to let patrols pass after the spawn (and once in a while, a bad spawn happens). The tricky part comes after, as you have to watch the patrols to get a feel for them and pull them so you fight while others are away - pulling the rage and anguish titans together is pretty easy to do accidentally.

For the fourth room, stay in the back, towards the end of spawns, reflag everything towards the back, so you can be ready and pull the next groups. For the fifth, the first couple groups can be pulled onto the right side of the big pillar, constricting them all in one spot for AoE.

For the Fury, I pull them into the tunnel from where the black beast comes from, pulling them around the corner into a tight ball - if I have issues, typically running with the heroes to the very back of the tunnel loses aggro. That's tricky because sometimes the healers don't go down, which can be a pain.

Hope this helps! I'll try (no promises on time) to get a full write-up of the DoA. While certain areas don't need micro, the foundry is one that I would plan on using some micro to help it go smoothly. I'm also going to see about alternative builds that may even be better for the DoA.. Experimentation and creativity is never done with!

shanaya · Sep 22, 2011, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Thanks for the detailed reply!

I completed Foundry shortly after posting, but used a more 'conventional' team with ST Rit, SoS Rit, Panic Mes, Shared Burden Mes, BiP Necro, UA/prot Monk and Experts Dexterity Ranger (basically the build described by Primitiveworker in the link above, which was itself I think, taken from a post by Jeydra). I had a few deaths among the team and had to pop a couple of 4-leaf clovers to get rid of DP but had no major problems in any of the rooms or the subsequent stuff.

Now on to Mallyx for the very first time! More difficult than the other DoA sections?

Plutoman · Sep 22, 2011, 04:14 PM // 16:14

No idea. I've done the DoA countless times, but I've still yet to do Mallyx o.o All I know is disable enchants. Ironic, eh?

I'll go ahead and say this - for more absolute firepower, spirits trump all right now. The DPS is astounding if you let them stick down spirits. However, I don't like the waiting, and I dislike the idea that spirits are the end-all. Using them may be easier, as they'll provide body-blocking and lots of single target damage.

Glad you completed it! It's not easy by any means.

Plutoman · Sep 22, 2011, 06:47 PM // 18:47

If anyone's still having troubles - this is how I flag for the first one. Sticking SB and panic on the second spawn usually means clear sailing. Just did this real quick to demonstrate, HM, too, though clearing it all in HM is rather brutal and I don't recommend it without some type of tank/SY spam. Couple deaths on HM is to be expected. I didn't pre-cast shelter, but any sort of micro will only make it easier.

There's time to complete the second room, just moments later.

I'll stick up more at some point in the future.. Preferably a FR guide.

Also, @ Jeydra - I did a few Raisu runs, but forgot screens. Got some fairly typical times of ~12 mins average for dual-smite and dual-invoke, and a ~13 minute for the standard. The smite could probably pick up a minute or two, and possibly the invoke, depending on tactics.. And of course, picking the right people, but I deemed it a bit too much effort. They perform respectably well enough. Original team was indestructable in that mission, dual-smite was nearly so, invoke seemed faster at first but troubles at the ranger boss put it back even with the smites, and it was a bit less stable at times.

kleps · Sep 23, 2011, 11:12 PM // 23:12

How does this run in HM Kathandrax?

Jeydra · Sep 24, 2011, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plutoman

Also, @ Jeydra - I did a few Raisu runs, but forgot screens. Got some fairly typical times of ~12 mins average for dual-smite and dual-invoke, and a ~13 minute for the standard. The smite could probably pick up a minute or two, and possibly the invoke, depending on tactics.. And of course, picking the right people, but I deemed it a bit too much effort. They perform respectably well enough. Original team was indestructable in that mission, dual-smite was nearly so, invoke seemed faster at first but troubles at the ranger boss put it back even with the smites, and it was a bit less stable at times.

That's ... not very encouraging. Without micro there are many builds that will go under 12 minutes or under 11 minutes. Even S/D/M goes under 11 minutes, and it's also quite indestructible.

It may be just me, but I think standard builds do better than this one.

FoxBat · Sep 24, 2011, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Figured I was missing something, but with times like that, maybe not.

Mistrust stacks very poorly without micro, even in caster heavy areas. Watch the recharges and you'll hardly ever see 2 mistrusts recharge, let alone 3. You have to watch for similar with wandering eye though I bet it's not as bad. Maybe they choose targets better when you're "barless" ie AFK but otherwise, it don't work so well without a ton of micro.

Plutoman · Sep 24, 2011, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Did a re-run with a switch of 2x e-surge in place of ineptitude and panic. Could possibly replace SB, too. Using dual-invoke with a single copy of fall back (forgot to switch the skill on the second >.<) netted me 11 minutes, a second copy of fall back and another run to get a better feel would put it at ~10 minutes pretty easily. Raisu palace is an area which rewards high damage builds versus survivability. You could argue that much of PvE is like that, but I'd tend to place my bets on a more survivable team instead. The original team, if it had a speed boost, could probably pick up to 11-12 minutes, and considering the majority of the damage consists of 3 split mesmers, is pretty impressive.

The point was not to find the fastest team - but to find the most balanced team between all facets of combat. There's a reason I included variants, too - and the note here under the mesmers "The elites provide a significant defensive lineup of blind, slow, and mass interruption. Sometimes, this isn't what you need - so you can swap in E-Surge as needed." I very much realize that it is overkill on survivability, and it can be modified relatively easily to switch to a more high-power mode.

I'm also a rather poor person for attempting speedy times - I'm pretty slow on things, generally. I'm not good at shooter games for reaction time, and thinking on my feet, are not my strong points - my strong points tend towards the abstract theories behind everything. I'd plan tactics, and let others do the work, because I'm piss poor at it >.< There's a reason I didn't actually participate in any of the competitions.

I'm not using any powerhouse build, either, nor using AP and not much in the way of PvE skills (just ele lord, and sometimes intensity and technobabble, which is redundant anyways). :/ There's my rebuttal. However, if you don't like it.. It's your opinion, of course. I'm pretty content with the team as is, though I'm always tweaking a bit at times (when I'm actually playing atm). I dislike running around with minions and spirits all the time, so I dropped 'em. Pretty happy with the overall result after that, too.

Beleg Curunir · Sep 30, 2011, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Could you tell us what weapons and full runes across the board should be used?

Plutoman · Sep 30, 2011, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Standard weapons.

E/Mo should have a +20% enchanting, high energy staff.. at least the 20% enchant. BiP/ST should have either a spear/shield set to cover armor when PwK is down, or a resto set. Mesmers should either run spear/shield for high energy/armor, a 40/40 set in the dominant attribute, or a 20/20/20/20 set for dom/illusion. Or, I run with a 20/20 in the dominant attribute with a shield offhand (+10vs demons). RoJ is a 40/40 smite, spear/shield, or 20/20/shield. I'd only say a shield for specific purposes - ie, doa, really.

As far as runes.. enough energy runes to bring the mesmers to 30-35 energy at least. The rest, either blessed/survivor, vitae runes, highest affordable vigor. Not too picky, only the energy thing on the mesmers. That's essentially because BiP is used when they are <50% energy, and it's better to have it cast on them at 15+ energy than only 10. More leeway, as spells go off fast.

masterfighter · Sep 30, 2011, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Hi Plutoman, Can you plz post the final build u using for DoA thx

Beleg Curunir · Oct 03, 2011, 07:57 PM // 19:57

you should finish with the four man and 6 man versions, and if your interested, i got the mesmers +5 suntouched spears of fortitude. These are collectors items with 5 cobalt talons

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hamri

I gave one the norn tournament cup or hanukus horn. and if not that i gave them a shield i get for margonette masks

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zehtuka%27s_Horn
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Bison_Cup
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Nikun

thats for at least +5 armor. since a shield that you dont meed the req for give +8.

Xelanger · Oct 19, 2011, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Just wanted to give this a friendly bump by saying I've been using the dual smite dillway build in general HM gameplay and have had minimal problems (except when Livia gets suicidal... which is expected from a BiP bar I guess). I don't think it can get any more noob friendly, except maybe the balling of enemies part, but yeah good work! Hope you continue developing it and making it even more solid.

Plutoman · Oct 19, 2011, 10:27 PM // 22:27

@masterfighter - standard build generally that's the core team. Oftentimes I change things around to experiment with what is better, but at the moment that's the team I'd use.

@Beleg, that's pretty awesome. Didn't know that. I crafted spears with a +5e, and then found mods. Finding the mods is usually the most annoying part. The bison cup/others is a good tip for those who don't have a lot of cash to blow. If you can, I recommend +10/demon shields.

@Xelanger, thanks.

Glad you're enjoying it! I'm still going to play around with it, but I've honestly gotten a bit bored of GW lately. Comes from being ADD I guess. <_< I'll come back to it at some point and polish it up - I had a few ideas (cutting out the e/mo in the core by putting prot on the smites/invokes, and opening the slot without losing the survivability of the core team, and a couple other ideas). I welcome experimentation, so if you try anything that works really well, feel free to post it!

Plutoman · Oct 20, 2011, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Had an interesting time running with the dual-invoke w/ prots instead of fall back - aegis, shielding hands, Shield of Absorption, and prot spirit (for when shelter goes down, the focused target still has damage reduction), and then triple e-surge. Was quite interesting to see mobs fall down. Sadly, while it's fun and pretty good, it collapses under high damage - second room, second wave foundry knocks that to it's feet quite quickly on the dryders and dream riders. The first opening room was great though. :P

Essence Snow · Oct 20, 2011, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plutoman

If you can, I recommend +10/demon shields.

Not sure if the +10 demons falls into the inheirent shield bug (since all demon mods are inheirent) where it doesnt actually give you the +10 or not, but might be worth checking.

Plutoman · Oct 20, 2011, 06:13 AM // 06:13

That is true.. I don't necessarily have the patience to test that, so Iunno if I'll be able too. What I'd use are the green ones, which did have issues if I remember correctly. If that's true, 40/40 or 20/20/20/20 sets are fine enough, alternatively 20/20/shield or spear/shield depending on how defensive you'd like. Thanks for the pointer on that.

Plutoman · Oct 25, 2011, 10:55 PM // 22:55

If anyone's interested, I was trying a variation with two invoke ele's, running a standard invoke/chain/l-orb/attune, with glyph of elemental power, 16 air, 4 ES, 11 Restoration with PwK, MBaS, and Spirit Light. Ran the ST Rit with a secondary monk and swapped out AoU, and all the resto skills besides the rez, with SoA, Shielding Hands, Prot Spirit, and Reversal of Fortune. Put e-surge on the ineptitude, panic, and SB - depending on area. If it's big mobs, keep panic, if you need blind, take either ineptitude or blinding surge. Used swapped out the power spikes for a shatter hex and unnatural signet.

Seemed to work rather well, but I don't necessarily have the time to consistently test it for weaknesses.