Curse

Sebiale · Jul 26, 2012, 07:04 AM // 07:04

A bit of backstory first:
So, I'm not entirely sure why, but I keep getting stalled on the campaigns--I just hit certain parts and I can't seem to progress past them.
In Prophecies I get stuck on the Ascension quests (can't even get past the first priest in Thirsty River--I managed to kill him once exactly on the 2-minute mark and he resurrected himself and at that point I kind of gave up.)
In Cantha I got stuck on the Naphui Quarter, getting Closer to the Stars--record was only 2 of the bosses.
In Nightfall it was at the Kodonur Crossroads for some reason.
For Eye of the North I can't even get past Gunnar's Hold--the level 28 mobs with endless knockdown pound my team into paste every time I try to go somewhere.

List of heroes:
1 Warrior
3 Monks
2 Dervishes
1 Ranger
2 Elementalists
1 Mesmer
0 Paragon
1 Ritualist
1 Necromancer
1 Assassin

It seems to me that I need to grab some more skills and make a better team to compensate for my apparent lack of skill (because I haven't heard of other players having these issues), although it would help if MOX would stop getting body-blocked . . . or body-blocking. >.>

Some guildies were nice enough to run me through Naphui, so I could go to the Profession Changer and get new skills for my heroes, and I was wondering if I could run the team build I put together anyone here who's willing to peer at.

As I'm still midgame, they're lacking Elite skills and probably subpar, but I'm just hoping for something that can carry me to the final, powerful team builds.

Some general ideas:
-As I'm still short on skill points and money, I was determined to be miserly when designing this team, so I doubled up on Mesmers, Dervishes, and Monks as I had them in ready supply, and duplicated skill sets on the Dervishes and Monks as well.
-I also wanted to avoid giving the heroes anything too conditional, as the AI isn't always that intelligent . . .
(?) A question--if I switch my secondary profession, I can then go grab the quests for that profession and learn them for my heroes right? (?)

I couldn't figure out how to add attributes in pawned, but they should be (in order):
12 Fast Casting, 12 Domination Magic
12 Mysticism, 12 Earth Prayers
12 Divine Favor, 12 Healing Prayers
12 Soul Reaping, 12 Death Magic
12 Spawning Power, 12 Channeling Magic

-The top two Mesmers are my own character and Gwen--not terribly sure how she'll handle so many conditional abilities, but it was her or another new class and that would have meant spending more points and gold.
-The Dervishes I'm not sure about--I went with Earth Magic because the rest of the team seems pretty fragile, but I'm not sure how much offensive power I generally want to get through the campaigns and reach final builds.
-The Monks will likely overheal, but I couldn't think of a better alternative.
-I was just looking for more direct casting damage in the Necro and Rit, along with a little help from their minions.

P.S.
The individual skill builds, just in case:
Mesmer: OQBAIawKM9zQOI4bQTA
Dervish: OgCAQrXZiaXXXZXiXsXmX
Monk: OwAAQgE+DvToRZEfROgdR
Necro: OABAQdBTVTBpBhBKgfBnO
Rit: OACAQdiYOlTXOKTUOdTLT

Spiritz · Jul 26, 2012, 09:39 AM // 09:39

1st bit of advice i will give may seem harsh - Stop crying and ditch the i cant do attitude.
Gw is only as hard as you make it , ive been playing for over 5 yrs , did nf then 2 yrs later i did factions and prophs and eotn i hardly touched - why ? because some parts seemed hard.
Things that can and will help - wiki is a great friend on finding how to do quests/missions and gives a valuable insight to what foes and their skills you will face.
Heros think of extensions of yourself - you have to kit yourself out with weapons/runes/armor and its the same with heros except getting them armor.
Also - say on one chr you use you capped some elites and got some normal skills - all elites and normal skills are open for any heros on that account - nightfall and eotn have hero skill trainers which also unlock skills you can use.
Ignoring heros - all the campaigns can be done with just the henchmen .
gwpvx.com can be used along with guru to view different hero setups and will give an idea what may work .
My golden rule is - Research , research and research.
Also finding a guild that can help with quests , builds and any general info is recomended - they will help with you growing in ability.
There are builds that after spending cash on special weapons or skills can roll thru the game easily but i wont recommend using them - you wont learn anything by rushing thru the game and they are best got after you have done a campaign and learnt more of the mechanics.
Skills you learn - primary or by secondary are unlocked for all heros on the account and if you say got say death nova on a primary necro chr and you had another chr say me/n you can use tomes to unlock the skills for necro ( already known ) for the me/n chr.
Getting started on gw is the hardest part but once you get going things do get easier - and if anyone at all calls you a noob etc just ignore them as some players are plain ignorant and like to show off.

If you check thru the farming section here on guru you may find easy ways to earn cash - use search and look for feather farming which is about the easiest way to earn some fast money

Relyk · Jul 26, 2012, 10:12 AM // 10:12

This is where lack of experience and trying to imitate other builds goes wrong. I'll go through the bars one by one. Heroes have this thing called a blue bar of energy just like you. Heroes therefore can run out of energy, where they cease to function. If you watched your hero bars during fights, you will likely see most of the heroes sitting at 0 energy and wanding stuff. That should be your first hint that there's something wrong with the bars.

Clumsiness is Illusion Magic attribute line. You currently do not have any points in Illusion. You also have Shame on the bar with no Inspiration Magic. Your hero will actually lose energy even if it triggers. Empathy is single target damage that doesn't last long or deal much damage because your hero isn't runed and you're playing NM. Fortunately, you still manage to put Mistrust and Cry of Frustration on the bar. Unfortunately, heroes love to spam Clumsiness; since we established that your hero sits on 0 energy, he will either spam Overload and Shatter or use Clumsiness once he has 10 energy. Heroes will not use Chaos Storm against most foes due to AI and I doubt you would ever micro it. This makes 6/8 skills on both mesmer bars useless, they literally do no shutdown and what little damage is done is negligent.

Maybe you haven't played a derv before, but dervish are a melee profession. They get their damage from attack skills. You have stuck on 8 flash enchantments. Only 3 of those flash enchantments do damage and only Sand Shards will do any useful damage. Heroes won't even reapply any flash enchantments until they end their ~30 seconds durations. That is doubtful when you as the player will not be guaranteeing that Sand Shards hits some enemies if at all because melee hero AI is terrible. they probably don't need healing, but since your monks don't have any energy in the first place, this isn't a big deal.

Your monk bars are incapable of healing after more than a few seconds. You have 3 10 energy skills that heroes will spam until they hit 0, then the only thing they will do is spam Orison of Healing, which is one of the worst heals in the game. They also have two resurrection spells, one that will cause them to jump in the middle of enemies and get themselves killed to resurrect the ally they couldn't heal.

An MM is all good, except you have three other skills to exploit corpses, so he will spend a majority of the time with 1-2 minions max. You have Well of the Profane, which automatically puts your energy to 0. You also have Deathly Swarm, which heroes love to spam, guaranteeing his energy stays at 0. The worst problem is that since you won't be killing anything, 6/8 of the skills on the bar are useless. Your party will probably be dead before Rising Bile ends and Deathly Swarm deals rather weak damage.

Agony deals 300 damage total spread out on a 30 second recharge. That makes it pretty much useless. Foes won't be in range of Destruction either, making it useless. You do have Bloodsong fortunately. The hero will spend the rest of the time spamming 50 damage spells after burning energy on Lamentation. Fortunately, you managed to put in Essence Strike to make it slightly less useless.

This pretty much establishes that most, if not all your team build is useless and explains why you are getting rolled by easy mobs. The first thing you can do is look at PvXwiki for builds and Guildwarswiki on skills and other information. You don't need to worry about elite skills either, although you should get them as soon as possible. Drop the two Dervish and grab your elementalists, then appropriate builds from pvxwiki. You should also ask your guild for advice and help on everything from missions to what and which hero builds you should use.

Denim · Jul 26, 2012, 12:16 PM // 12:16

You not crying. Oh, wait..

Yes some of GW missions seem cruel at worst, at best, almost impossible to solo..requiring many failed tries before finding a solution.

I haven't seen one guide to acquiring skills. The store sells the 5 skill packs at $10 each last I looked. If that's a bit much, I remember seeing something about the best way to unlock skills is pvp. That's the best I can do. I feel your pain; you'd think after 7 years, someone would have revealed the secrets. Sob, sob.

KotCR · Jul 26, 2012, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Pretty easy to get Balthazar faction to unlock skills just by playing basic PvP and even Pseudo-PvP.
You can get 2000 Balthazar faction each day from Zaishen Challenge, which are pseudo-PvP battles against the AI.

You can also earn Balthazar faction quickly on Random Arena Zaishen Quest days (though make sure you've got a strong bark seems to place is bursting with rude narrow-minded players who think they are much better than they actually are) gaining 3000 Balthazar faction (enough for an Elite skill unlock) for every 3 wins.

Codex Arena is alot less populated but if you could get a team for it on it's Zaishen Quest day you might earn a good bit of Balthazar faction too; Especially seems in Codex Arena all skills usuable that day there will automatically be unlocked for you anyway.

Then of course there's Jade Quarry and Fort Aspenwood where you can also earn a reasonable bit of Balthazar faction without hassle by doing next to nothing, once again especially on Zaishen Quest days. There's a reason those places are popular for botting, afterall (though I'm certainly not asking you to bot, just as example of how easy it can be to earn faction there).

@OP
Relyk pretty much covered the data on your builds; Though I will add a few points.
I disagree that Well of Profane is useless. It's probably the most useful non-elite enchantment removal in the game, seems it basically locks out enemies from using or benefitting from them at all (incredibly useful against Margonites for example, whose entire defense and healing set-up is purely enchantment-based), however it is an expensive skill and it does need to be well micro-ed. Until you learn to how to do this effectively, it is probably best you avoid the skill.

And the other point that Relyk didn't seem to touch on too much, is this: You've got no protection. No damage control or way to reduce incoming damage to your team. Reducing incoming damage can be 100%+ more powerful and efficient than just redbar healing through all damage.

If you bring two support-orientated Monks, one should almost certainly be Protection based in any standard mid-range team set-ups. Skills like Guardian/Aegis, Protective Spirt/Spirit Bond, Shield of Absorption, Shielding Hands, etc are compulsory to an effective working team. Some of these skills can also effectively be brought on secondary Monks - Necromancer/Monk being the primary and most used example; in addition to Elementalist/Monk also being somewhat popular for it. Though the skills can work effectively as support to more primary-focused builds on a wide-range of professions.

The two classes that offer strong party-wide protection (compulsory for high level play, not so neccessary at mid-level but certainly nice to have) are the Paragon and the Ritualist. Hero Paragons can use Defensive Anthem, Bladeturn Refrain, "Stand Your Ground!" and "They're on Fire!" to offer party-wide incoming damage reduction, while Ritualists use Communing-based builds with skills like Shelter, Displacement and Union, such as the ubiquitous and incredibly powerful Soul Twisting Ritualist.

In a more static team Elementalist can offer some of this aswell; Look into the wards in the Earth Magic line and a sprinkle of skills in the Water Magic line. For example, Ward of Stability would solve your knockdown problem. While Ward Against Harm, Ward Against Melee, and Ward of Weakness all greatly reduce the threat enemy melee mobs pose to your team. You've got a few Elementalists to spare and most of these aren't elite skills, so why not look into these?

Sebiale · Jul 26, 2012, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritz

1st bit of advice i will give may seem harsh - Stop crying and ditch the i cant do attitude.
Gw is only as hard as you make it , ive been playing for over 5 yrs , did nf then 2 yrs later i did factions and prophs and eotn i hardly touched - why ? because some parts seemed hard.
Things that can and will help - wiki is a great friend on finding how to do quests/missions and gives a valuable insight to what foes and their skills you will face.

I've been using the wiki and the forums here, and they both helped for completing the campaigns as far I've gotten. I know what I need to do to complete the areas I'm stuck on, I just can't seem to accomplish it.

Quote:

Heros think of extensions of yourself - you have to kit yourself out with weapons/runes/armor and its the same with heros except getting them armor.

I think I'm misreading this, because heroes can't change their armor (well, except for the aesthetics).

Quote:

Also - say on one chr you use you capped some elites and got some normal skills - all elites and normal skills are open for any heros on that account - nightfall and eotn have hero skill trainers which also unlock skills you can use.
. . .
Skills you learn - primary or by secondary are unlocked for all heros on the account and if you say got say death nova on a primary necro chr and you had another chr say me/n you can use tomes to unlock the skills for necro ( already known ) for the me/n chr.

I only have one character, so that's not something I can do.

Quote:

Ignoring heros - all the campaigns can be done with just the henchmen .
gwpvx.com can be used along with guru to view different hero setups and will give an idea what may work .
My golden rule is - Research , research and research.

The builds here and on gwpvx are almost exclusively for people who have easy access to the games roster of skill, and the builds seem to revolve around the use of a particular Elite skill, such as the Panic mesmer, without that the builds don't look like they would work too well.

Quote:

Also finding a guild that can help with quests , builds and any general info is recomended - they will help with you growing in ability.

My guild already does this, but I don't want to need them for everything.

Quote:

There are builds that after spending cash on special weapons or skills can roll thru the game easily but i wont recommend using them - you wont learn anything by rushing thru the game and they are best got after you have done a campaign and learnt more of the mechanics.

And as I can't complete the campaigns--that being the main problem here--it's not an issue . . .

Quote:

If you check thru the farming section here on guru you may find easy ways to earn cash - use search and look for feather farming which is about the easiest way to earn some fast money

I would love to farm, but of what I've seen so far, the only worthwhile farming areas require a tougher team than what I have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

~snip~

Apparently I was unclear, I apologize--this is the theoretical build, none of this has been implemented, save for the first Mesmer build on my own character.
The rest of my heroes (save Gwen) still only have their initial skills (plus res signets).

Doh! on Clumsiness--I completely missed that it was Illusion . . . :S
Although my current character is running Backfire in that spot, which I don't like because it eats so much energy, take a long time to cast, and has such a long cooldown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KotCR

Then of course there's Jade Quarry and Fort Aspenwood where you can also earn a reasonable bit of Balthazar faction without hassle by doing next to nothing, once again especially on Zaishen Quest days. There's a reason those places are popular for botting, afterall (though I'm certainly not asking you to bot, just as example of how easy it can be to earn faction there).

I seem to have misunderstood something then--I thought you needed to learn skills in order to use them in PvE, whereas unlocking them only gives access to them in PvP.

Denim · Jul 26, 2012, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Here's what you need to know about skills. They have 2 properties, or states, the Locked or Unlocked state and the Known or Unknown state. Locked/Unlocked is account wide..it applies to all characters on the account. Each Unlocked skill can be used by any heros and learned by any character on the account. Each character on the account can learn any Unlocked skill. Wow, I sure blew that explanation.

Anyways, from the masters at wiki:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill

Quote:

A skill can be learned by Completing certain quests which reward the player with a skill.
Purchasing a skill from a skill trainer (except for PvE-only skills).
Purchasing a skill from a Hero skill trainer (except for non-Sunspear PvE-only skills).
Capturing a skill from a boss.
Switching secondary profession, which adds the set of default basic skills for each profession.

Additionally, a character can use a skill tome or elite skill tome to learn any skill or elite skill unlocked on the account. Skill trainers each have a unique set of skills for sale, but also list all an account's unlocked skills.

Unquote

In other words skills need be Unlocked once per account. Skills must be Learned once per character. Also, all hheros can use any Unlocked skills. They don't have to learn them first.

I hope that's not TOO messy.

Sebiale · Jul 26, 2012, 06:11 PM // 18:11

So unlocking a skill will give them to heroes, just not to my character, OK.

Well that certainly makes PvP more attractive.

Drk Dervish · Jul 26, 2012, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Relyk say it all about your team so not going there. There is one little thing they all missed. ^^ if you have no elite or lack of skill for hero, then use Henchman (They have elite hehe) and their build might be basic but still better then your team. Back in the old days that how most of us beat the game anyways especially if you only playing in NM.