Curse

Jademalo · Aug 07, 2012, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Right, so I'm starting to get annoyed with this now, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what on earth any of the henchmen actually are.

I've read guides upon guides telling me to take an interrupter, a couple of tanks and a healer, but this is all completely meaningless without any given context, and after over two hours of searching i've finally given up.

In factions, which henchmen are which. I know they all have suffixes (i.e. healer, earth, spirit) but these are all meaningless without context. And because of this, my team runs into any situation and dies instantaneously. This isnt even pulling to many, they just all die. The only thing I know is that I have a healer, but regardless, dead.

I'm currently on To Tahnnakai Temple, with a level 20 Ra/Me. I only have the skills I started with because any build I read requires me to have been much further in the story, which I cant get to due to dying all the time.

I have finished the Asura line in EotN, so I have Vekk, M.O.X, Ogden, Gwen and that red coated lass with the cleavage. Amazingly, while having long gaps between safe areas, this was FAR easier than Factions is turning out to be.

I know for a fact that if I could just get a basic team I could enjoy it, but there is absolutely no information that I can find that doesn't require prior knowledge on quite simply how to get to the end of factions without other people. I would do it with other people, but there frankly aren't any other people.

Please help, I'm starting to dislike this game for reasons that aren't faults with the game, but faults with the wiki. And I want to give it a fair chance.

EDIT: Also, when looking at builds, what on earth does "12+1+3" etc mean? I literally cannot for the life of me figure out what on earth its going on about. Equal to that, on the wiki skills say "10...22...25 damage" again, what on earth is special about those numbers? (arching shot)

fires element · Aug 07, 2012, 05:04 PM // 17:04

tahnnakai is a pain regardless since the aoe damage from the guardians is crazy. without knowing which henchies you are taking i can't offer advice. as for the suffixes for henchmen healer mean they are monks that use healing spells. earth is an earth magic elementalist. spirit is a ritualist. for a list of what skills they actually use you can go to the wiki and see what their builds are. and the 12+1+3 is refering to 12 attribute points into the desired line, a head piece for the +1 to the same attribute line and the +3 is a superior rune for the attribute. so if it says earth magic 12+1+3 that means 12 attribute points + the earth magic headpiece + the superior rune of earth magic.

Jademalo · Aug 07, 2012, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by fires element

tahnnakai is a pain regardless since the aoe damage from the guardians is crazy. without knowing which henchies you are taking i can't offer advice. as for the suffixes for henchmen healer mean they are monks that use healing spells. earth is an earth magic elementalist. spirit is a ritualist. for a list of what skills they actually use you can go to the wiki and see what their builds are. and the 12+1+3 is refering to 12 attribute points into the desired line, a head piece for the +1 to the same attribute line and the +3 is a superior rune for the attribute. so if it says earth magic 12+1+3 that means 12 attribute points + the earth magic headpiece + the superior rune of earth magic.

Ah, right. thanks.

And my problem is I don't know which henchmen to take, so that's the advice I need. Thats slightly cleared up the suffixes, but what is an earth mage? dps? tank? its things like that I flat out can't find.

Mortal Amongst Mere Gods · Aug 07, 2012, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Similarly, any attribute listed as just "12+1" means 12 ranks in that attribute along with a corresponding minor rune, and "12+2" indicates a major rune.

The numbers in wiki descriptions tell the severity of the effects of a skill at certain ranks. For Arcing Shot, the bonus damage listed occurs at a Marksmanship rank of 0 (+10), a rank of 12 (+22), and a rank of 15 (+25). This is to give an idea of how the power of a skill increases as you put more ranks into its respective attribute.

Also, a resource you may come to find invaluable: anytime you're in-game and wondering about something, you can type "/wiki [whatever you need to look up]" without the quotation marks, and it'll take you to the official Guild Wars wiki. So if you want to know what skills the earth henchman uses, you can type "/wiki Kai Ying" to see what his build looks like and how he'll be useful to you.

Hope all of this helps. =)

Jademalo · Aug 07, 2012, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Daaamn that wiki thing is helpful, thanks!

I've failed twice on the Temple mission now.. Eurgh..

Meow Ren · Aug 07, 2012, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

I only have the skills I started with because any build I read requires me to have been much further in the story, which I cant get to due to dying all the time.

I have finished the Asura line in EotN, so I have Vekk, M.O.X, Ogden, Gwen and that red coated lass with the cleavage.

One thing to keep in mind is that heroes are basically customizable henchmen. They are only as good as you can make them...i.e. you need to have a decent number of skills, max weapons and runes for their armor in order for them to be effective. Otherwise, you're better off with henchmen. For skills, if you haven't spent real world money to buy the Skill Unlock Packs, you won't have a lot of skills avialable to kit your heroes out with. Since you're at Tahnakki Temple you have already Ascended and can now change secondary professions. It costs 500g each time to change secondaries. Once you have "unlocked" a secondary profession, you can swap between any of them any time you are in an outpost. It's generally advisable to do so since doing so unlocks some additional basic skills that any hero on your account can then use. It's also generally advisable, if you have an unused character slot, to go back and roll another character and do the starter area quests to try other secondary professions. You don't have to commit to any or play the character again, but it helps to unlock some more basic skills for your heroes.

One thing you might also want to do is check your ranger.

Do you have the maximum level armor? For rangers that is AR 70. If you're not certain, hit the "I" button to bring up your character inventory and hover your mouse pointer over each piece of armor. If it's not max, you can get cheap max armor in Kaineng City or Boreal Station @ 1k plus some not-too-expensive materials.

Is your character's armor runed? If so, what runes and/or insignia are you using on each piece of armor. There is a guide on this forum with tips on playing a ranger, here. It includes a section on runes/insignia.

Do you have all your attribute points to help make the best of your ranger's build? At level 20 you should have 200 Attribute points to use. If you don't...have you completed the two side-quests to get your last 30 points?

Once you have your full Att point allotment, check to see how they're spread out. Generally, until you are more familiar and comfortable with your character's skills and the game, you should not spread your Attribute points between more than 2-3 attributes. One of them should always be your primary att...for rangers that is Expertise.

Also...I would personally suggest finding a good guild. There are still guilds in the main outposts (Kaineng Center, Lions Arch, Kamadan) recruiting players. Don't be afraid to ask the recruiter questions about their guild...if they are a helpful, friendly guild they won't mind answering

. A guild would mean you would potentially have other live players to help you with tough missions and ask questions, etc.

Jademalo · Aug 07, 2012, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meow Ren

One thing to keep in mind is that heroes are basically customizable henchmen. They are only as good as you can make them...i.e. you need to have a decent number of skills, max weapons and runes for their armor in order for them to be effective. Otherwise, you're better off with henchmen. For skills, if you haven't spent real world money to buy the Skill Unlock Packs, you won't have a lot of skills avialable to kit your heroes out with. Since you're at Tahnakki Temple you have already Ascended and can now change secondary professions. It costs 500g each time to change secondaries. Once you have "unlocked" a secondary profession, you can swap between any of them any time you are in an outpost. It's generally advisable to do so since doing so unlocks some additional basic skills that any hero on your account can then use. It's also generally advisable, if you have an unused character slot, to go back and roll another character and do the starter area quests to try other secondary professions. You don't have to commit to any or play the character again, but it helps to unlock some more basic skills for your heroes.

One thing you might also want to do is check your ranger.

Do you have the maximum level armor? For rangers that is AR 70. If you're not certain, hit the "I" button to bring up your character inventory and hover your mouse pointer over each piece of armor. If it's not max, you can get cheap max armor in Kaineng City or Boreal Station @ 1k plus some not-too-expensive materials.

Is your character's armor runed? If so, what runes and/or insignia are you using on each piece of armor. There is a guide on this forum with tips on playing a ranger, here. It includes a section on runes/insignia.

Do you have all your attribute points to help make the best of your ranger's build? At level 20 you should have 200 Attribute points to use. If you don't...have you completed the two side-quests to get your last 30 points?

Once you have your full Att point allotment, check to see how they're spread out. Generally, until you are more familiar and comfortable with your character's skills and the game, you should not spread your Attribute points between more than 2-3 attributes. One of them should always be your primary att...for rangers that is Expertise.

Also...I would personally suggest finding a good guild. There are still guilds in the main outposts (Kaineng Center, Lions Arch, Kamadan) recruiting players. Don't be afraid to ask the recruiter questions about their guild...if they are a helpful, friendly guild they won't mind answering

. A guild would mean you would potentially have other live players to help you with tough missions and ask questions, etc.

Thanks for all that, I really appreciate it. =]

akelarumi · Aug 07, 2012, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jademalo

and that red coated lass with the cleavage.

This made me laugh

To explain a bit of your problem.
First of all the henchman in Eye of the north are a lot better then in factions and in factions they used terms not generally excepted by the community for the henchman.

To start: your telling that your using the starter skills. There are a lot of skill available in kaineng center (at michiko) that are a lot better. It doesn't have to be optimum, but as a ranger, I would suggest to invest in two attribute lines (one of them being expertise) and look at the skills she is offering to bring a bunch of them. one of the skills should best be a res skill (in thanakai temple the ressurection signet is a great option, later on you might want a different one that don't need a boss kill to recharge). Another skill you might want to get is the skill Pain inverter. You say you finished he asura quest line. Then you should be able to open the outpost tarnished haven:

There you get a line of quests that reward Asura skills. one of them is pain inverter. This will take 70-80% of health from one of the two guardians in thanakai mission (and works great against most AoE (Area of effect) damage dealing foes. To explain. Pain inverter reverts all damage (max 80 damage points) back to the target. But if the damage is AoE (so against all members of your party) the foe actually deals e.g. 8 times 80 damage and so gets 8 times 80 = 640 damage back. This can be further increased if your party also consist of spirits from a ritualist or minions from a necromancer (cause they als count as party members).

Another usefull tactic in this mission is to use a flatbow or a longbow to pull smaller groups. in many cases you can pull 2 guardians away from the main group in a room and so making the fight a lot easier.

Last of all make sure that your own armor is level 70. if not then invest money in lvl 70 armor (in either boreal station (Eye of the north) or in kaineng center this can be acquired for bout 10 platinum.

Hope this all was helpfull. If you wantyou can also sent me a pm on this forum with your ingame name and I can help you along through the mission and take a bit of time to help you with your own build and maybe some of your heroes. I'm in CET timezone.

Jademalo · Aug 07, 2012, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Thanks for all the help guys, I massively appreciate it.

I read the starting hunter thing, and I've got runed 70 armour now, and i feel a bit more stable with my build.
I went for pretty much the canthan starting build, and it seems to be working for me. I'm just doing the quests for the extra attribute points, then I guess its time to plod on!

projectmercy · Aug 07, 2012, 09:58 PM // 21:58

I want to reinforce the statement on Pain Inverter. It really trivializes a large amount of content.

I started as a ranger too, and honestly for PvE, you're fighting an uphill battle. Until you're comfortable with your heroes, it's nice to have extra bodies around you. The easiest way to do that is to fill your front-line with undead and spirits.

For you, personally, try using an SoS build ( like this: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Rt/any_Spirit_Spammer ) It's not ideal for a lot of situations. What it does do is it gives you one build that you can use about everywhere, and it gives you a huge margin of error, as the enemies will take time to attack your spirits, which you can just re-summon.

The other thing is, if you're going to pick one build of hero that would compliment the henchmen, i would say bring a minion-bomber/protection hero. You will need a necromancer hero for this. The build is similar to ( http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:N/any_Minion_Bomber ) except swap Aura of the Lich with Jagged Bones, add Signet of Lost Souls, and your final three should be Shield of Absorption, Protective Spirit, and Aegis.

After that, you will need to select henchmen depending on where you are, but you'll want one healing hench, and at least 1 or 2 control henchmen (so mesmers or other necros). You really don't need any melee people around. The undead will take care of that for you. You just need to be careful when you first zone into the area, as you haven't had time to build up a corpse wall yet.

Jeydra · Aug 07, 2012, 11:06 PM // 23:06

^ Pain Inverter is one of those skills that looks good but isn't. I would never use it. It's reactive, has long cooldown and requires you to take damage to trigger its effects. Not good.

The general rule for selecting henchmen is to pick up the Monks, Eles, Mesmers and Necros. In your case use Vekk, Ogden and Gwen as your heroes and then fill the rest with henchmen. You are after all in Normal Mode, so it should not be too difficult especially if you can flag your heroes apart to avoid the brunt of AoE. Experienced players can get away with just one semi-healer in a team of 8, simply because you've got Mhenlo and Togo with you in this mission, but you might as well bring two Monks just to be safe.

I don't know which skills you have, so I can't suggest specific builds, unfortunately.

akelarumi · Aug 07, 2012, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

^ Pain Inverter is one of those skills that looks good but isn't. I would never use it. It's reactive, has long cooldown and requires you to take damage to trigger its effects. Not good.

The general rule for selecting henchmen is to pick up the Monks, Eles, Mesmers and Necros. In your case use Vekk, Ogden and Gwen as your heroes and then fill the rest with henchmen. You are after all in Normal Mode, so it should not be too difficult especially if you can flag your heroes apart to avoid the brunt of AoE. Experienced players can get away with just one semi-healer in a team of 8, simply because you've got Mhenlo and Togo with you in this mission, but you might as well bring two Monks just to be safe.

I don't know which skills you have, so I can't suggest specific builds, unfortunately.

I totally disagree with you. off ocurse Pain inverter needs bit of timing, but in proper use it can kill all AoE foes in the game instantly, I have killed the great destroyer in hard mode solo with just bringing 8 spirits and pain inverter. Just the fact that you don't know how to use it doesn't make it a bad skill. Even when the enemy's don't deal AoE damage it is still a good skill to use. And like projectmercy said when combined with a SoS build (provided that your an ele, like me, a ranger like the OP or a necro or a ritualist it works awesome). Just make sure you know what foe to hit it with. In my opinion everyone who isn't used to just pressing 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 but uses a small bit of brain cells can use pain inverter and make a huge difference with it. The only down side bout it is when you have a low energy pool like a warrior, dervish or paragon.

Jademalo · Aug 08, 2012, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Right, I've got runed +70 armour, and my bow is perfect and fully enchanted. I've got a decent spec, (decided against getting the asura skills now since it will take a considerable amount of time for probably not THAT much gain in the sense that I'm not hitting any major stumbling blocks now. I'll remember about it though for the future.) and I'm up to Arborstone.

Thank you so much for all the help guys, a good three quarters of this information wasn't easily accessible on the wiki, and I reckon a good quarter of that actually doesn't exist on the wiki at all. (e.g. where and how to get +70 armour, it only tells you that it exists)
Thankfully now my henchmen seem to be keeping themselves alive, and my damage is now enough that I'm actually affecting the health bars of enemies

Oh, and as a quick note, I actually got masters on Tahnnakai Temple =]

Thanks!

akelarumi · Aug 08, 2012, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jademalo

Right, I've got runed +70 armour, and my bow is perfect and fully enchanted. I've got a decent spec, (decided against getting the asura skills now since it will take a considerable amount of time for probably not THAT much gain in the sense that I'm not hitting any major stumbling blocks now. I'll remember about it though for the future.) and I'm up to Arborstone.

Thank you so much for all the help guys, a good three quarters of this information wasn't easily accessible on the wiki, and I reckon a good quarter of that actually doesn't exist on the wiki at all. (e.g. where and how to get +70 armour, it only tells you that it exists)
Thankfully now my henchmen seem to be keeping themselves alive, and my damage is now enough that I'm actually affecting the health bars of enemies

Oh, and as a quick note, I actually got masters on Tahnnakai Temple =]

Thanks!

Wooohoooo!!! Gz!!

Renowned Spartan · Aug 08, 2012, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelarumi

Wooohoooo!!! Gz!!

Ake is one of the most helpful players around here. Helped me finish my HoM to 30/50. Props to you!

Dar Drakor · Aug 08, 2012, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelarumi

I totally disagree with you. off ocurse Pain inverter needs bit of timing, but in proper use it can kill all AoE foes in the game instantly, I have killed the great destroyer in hard mode solo with just bringing 8 spirits and pain inverter. Just the fact that you don't know how to use it doesn't make it a bad skill. Even when the enemy's don't deal AoE damage it is still a good skill to use. And like projectmercy said when combined with a SoS build (provided that your an ele, like me, a ranger like the OP or a necro or a ritualist it works awesome). Just make sure you know what foe to hit it with. In my opinion everyone who isn't used to just pressing 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 but uses a small bit of brain cells can use pain inverter and make a huge difference with it. The only down side bout it is when you have a low energy pool like a warrior, dervish or paragon.

Yeah, I just recently did the Great Destroyer using the standard SoS bar along with Pain Inverter and the big bad momma (I think it's a momma right? lol) destroyer went down in no time...and I don't normally use PI. It has its uses, just need to know when best to use it.

projectmercy · Aug 09, 2012, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Grats to the you, Jademalo! It's always nice to get past rough spots. The wiki is more like a encyclopedia, not an index. As you say, you have to know what you're looking for to really make the most of it. When I first started, I had a few frustrating points that these forums helped me clear up.

For Pain Inverter, I feel it it solves basically the biggest issue with PvE, which is spike. I think it depends a lot on what you're bringing to the table. In proph, PI is basically useless, as spike is low. As you get into bosses with double damage, and the cast speed bonuses in hard-mode, more often than not, if they do an AE spike into spirits and minions, you'll see this wall of 80-damage numbers scream up, and your boss is suddenly at 40% HP. Sure, you ate that spike, but with unity and protection spirits up, it's not that big a deal.

To some extent, I guess it's a way to make up for builds that aren't optimum in certain situations.

Also, as you pointed out in the other help thread, if you're running H/H, they're going to clump. With PI, at least you get a return on your heroes stupidity as long as you tag the AE sources.

Me personally though as a ranger, my class skills are basically crap for PvE in most situations. So it's all about cherry picking things from complementary classes to make up for it (like assn, necros, rits, and PvE skills). PI becomes a great balancer, combined with ranger interrupts.

Jademalo · Aug 09, 2012, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Done! =]

Thanks for all the help guys!