Curse

EFGJack · May 09, 2011, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Yeah I know. I'll get around and adding a way to do 4HM on normal mode only, although it's quite simple for those with experience but the experienced players don't really need a guide, do they?

The point was that the guide is viable on both Normal Mode and Hard Mode, this is the reason they seem overdone and specialized. My apologies for overdoing the 4HM, this was partially due to not having any experience with the quest on normal mode - I'll start working on a separated 4HM section for Normal Mode.

Meanwhile, a timeline that provides solid information of my 4HM completion under Hard Mode (from this run - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asfw5Tm5780)

This means one has approximately 73 seconds to deal with the eastern front and make it back to engage the group before Reaper gets focused. I've had a few runs where I've managed to delay the western side by up to 80 seconds, though. I decided to create this in case there's someone struggling with The Four Horsemen HM. Knowing times for when the 2 horsemen are supposed to die and when reaper is getting focused should help with build & strategy tuning.

EDITED MAIN POST - mostly Dhuum section though. 11/5/2011.

Reginator · May 13, 2011, 02:04 PM // 14:04

I thought they had fixed the issue where you get error-kicked from uw if you manage to "kill" dhuum before getting the rest bar filled? Anyways, great guide and hero mixes. I breezed through in NM using my necro, and apparently did too much dmg to dhuum and broke the uw. I didn't sacrifice one of my heroes at the start to speed up the rest thing, so that may be my downfall.

I'm thinking about trying again, but with a ranger instead, more closely using jeydra's premise build. Squishies seem to work better overall, especially with 2-3 spirit spammers. In the mix. Would a foc necro or perhaps a keystone mesmer work best, or would you recommend something like a smite monk with soh to further boost dps?

EFGJack · May 13, 2011, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Yeah. That feature does seem to exist still. I may be a bit biased but I suggest a FOC necro as you can fit in redbarring / SYG and the hero won't suffer much. SOH won't do anything to your ranger I'm afraid, unless you go melee on it

Gabs88 · May 13, 2011, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFGJack

Yeah I know. I'll get around and adding a way to do 4HM on normal mode only, although it's quite simple for those with experience but the experienced players don't really need a guide, do they?

xD I got owned on a couple of attempts before trying your spirit spamming tactic. Didn't really have any knowledge of the encounter and the low defense of the build I was running couldn't cope with it properly fighting in the middle with 1 group from each side. (reaper got owned)

Big mistake I did was to keep the SoGM ritualist in place hence baiting nukes which hit my spirits. The fact that they only wanded the spirits and didn't use any spells was unknown to me.

All apart from that is very easy.

Only tried twice though cause I wasn't sure if I had to clear plains before doing the quest, and killing every single one of those spawns there takes a lil time xD

For me NMway = HMway as far as 4 horsemen tactics goes -Muddy terrain cause the run speed in NM is slower then the run speed in HM. Mobs don't have a natural speed boost and hence muddy terrain has far less effect.

Build wise anything goes if you bring DP removal for Dhuum but other then that I haven't tried. Didn't have any problem spending 30 rainbow CC's or so and had absolutely no interest in risking failiure.

Reginator · May 13, 2011, 04:19 PM // 16:19

That's right... and as much fun as it is to run daggers on a ranger, I'll stick with a traditional setup. I've already got syg/anthem of envy and disruption/gfte on a paragon (excuse to bring gwen and kieran), which even further boosts output on the spirits.

Gabs88 · May 13, 2011, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reginator

That's right... and as much fun as it is to run daggers on a ranger, I'll stick with a traditional setup. I've already got syg/anthem of envy and disruption/gfte on a paragon (excuse to bring gwen and kieran), which even further boosts output on the spirits.

Ehm, I don't think you even know what I mean when I say spirit spamming tactic. Cause you wont be anywhere near those spirits when you do it xD

Chthon · May 15, 2011, 05:26 AM // 05:26

I've been fooling around with this a bit.

If no one minds, I'm going to contribute a mini-guide for doing Unwanted Guests "the right way."

Where I'm coming from here:

I'm used to doing UW with full human teams with a dual ER backlines. We just tank the vengefuls and dryders and skeletons and a few non-quest mobs we didn't bother to clear with the ridiculous power of ER. Heroes don't quite offer that same level of survivability. This is the first time since the anti-SC update that I've had to do this quest with some attention to the possibility of getting killed. (Of course, if you have great faith in your hero backline, feel free to charge in headfirst just like it was a player backline.) Here's what I've learned:

General overview:

Just about every spawn for this quest involves the Keeper sitting in the middle of a narrow passageway. He spawns with one skeleton, one set of 3 dryders, and one set of 3 vengeful on each side of him. Additionally, several of the spawns have an extra skeleton that just camps him.

The general method that the devs seem to be encouraging is:
1. Figure out which side the vengefuls patrol further out on.
2. Bow pull that side's dryders and kill them so they don't body block you.
3. Wait for the vengefuls to patrol out of the way.
4. Charge in and gank the Keeper. Vengefuls and surviving dryders drop dead.
5. Mop up the skeletons.

Detailed Walkthrough:
-1. Clear out the non-quest skeletons from the spawn points before taking the quest. Otherwise you will end up with up to 6 skeletons in one place. (Hint: 6x Flurry really should be avoided.)
0. Pop the Reapers at Vale and Mountains/Planes.
1. The Keeper in the Lab-Vale hallway is an abnormal spawn. All of his guys spawn between him the Lab side. Teleport to Vale and gank him from behind. (Also, if your team has spirits, you can drop them on his spawn point before taking the quest and they may kill him before the dryders get them.)
2. Flag heroes on the stairs into Lab and pull the dryders from the middle hallway down to you. (Like Jack says, they have a small chance of aggroing to the Reaper if you leave them alone long enough.)
3. Wait for the vengefuls to patrol back past the Keeper and then rush in. One skeleton will be on the way. You have time to gank him first if you like. Gank the Keeper, then mop up the skeletons (3 total, usually you can avoid multiple aggro).
4. Port to Mountain/Plains and come back across Mountains towards Lab. You'll find a Keeper sitting between the entrance to Mountains and the nearby bridge that leads towards Wastes.
5. Pull the near set of dryders up into the entrance to Mountains and kill them.
6. Wait for the vengefuls to patrol off in the direction of the starting chamber, then rush in.
7. Gank the keeper, then mop up the skeletons. You usually can't avoid aggroing all 3 skeletons at once.
8. Head for the starting chamber.
9. Flag your heroes a little past the now-open door and pull the near set of dryders up the stairs and all the way back to the heroes.
10. These vengefuls are on a weirdo patrol. If you wait long enough, both sets will end up all the way on the far side of the chamber, giving you a huge opening to go for the keeper.
11. Again, you won't be able to avoid aggroing 3 skeletons at once. You may also have the other set of dryders, so make sure to get the keeper before you get nuked.
12. Circle back around to the bridge near the entrance to the mountains and approach the set in the Lab-Wastes hallway from that direction.
13. When the vengefuls patrol off towards Wastes, you'll have an opening to pull the dryders (note that they're a very stubborn pull) or kill them and then the Keeper in rapid succession.
14. Skeleton mop up.
15. Up the stairs from your current position is the final Keeper sitting in the "candle hallway."
16. Pull the near set of dryders down the stairs and kill them.
17. The two sets of vengefuls have unequal patrol periods that sometimes put the far group right on top of the Keeper when the near group patrols off down the dead end. Just wait and eventually you'll get an opening with both patrols away.
18. In the meantime, you may get an opportunity to body pull the other set of dryders.
19. Another unavoidable 3-skeleton aggro.
20. Done.

EFGJack · May 15, 2011, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Thanks, dude. I may migrate your post to the main one. Updated Dhuum sect. in the main post.

sentex · May 18, 2011, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Thanks A LOT, i need to say it again... A LOT for this.

Underworld is one of the things i need and want to finish at least for one time, and this post will be very helpful for achieveing that

EFGJack · May 18, 2011, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Dhuum video is on YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tochuvALlAw

Also clarified Imprisoned Spirits tactics. Requesting comments on the two preparation screenshots.

EFGJack · May 19, 2011, 07:13 PM // 19:13

I updated the strategies in the following quests

The Four Horsemen
Imprisoned Spirits
Unwanted Guests

...And several minor updates too. This guide should cover up much more now than the initial version did.

slashman · May 20, 2011, 02:17 PM // 14:17

firstly sorry for my english

hello, I began the underworld and I wonder if the tactics described in the guide work in NM.

It is planned to upgrade the guide to NM ?

I'm just Kurzick rank level 3, is it enough for SY ?

thank you

EFGJack · May 20, 2011, 04:29 PM // 16:29

The guide is for normal mode and you are better off running something else than SY - like a KD build. Just remember to bring Earthbind

> Major updates to Hero Build & Skills part of the guide

Emoface · May 21, 2011, 05:57 PM // 17:57

I can only congratulate you on your guide and your newfound eFame.

batno_mercy · May 23, 2011, 01:09 PM // 13:09

I want to run about 20 times in a row after my exam to build up strategies, see what can be improved and most importantly check out how caster professions can maximise effectiveness here. Should I follow Jeydra's build closely (I'll be doing it on ele, although could try on mesmer as well), or should I do some substitutions in there?

Alathin · May 24, 2011, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Great post. Gonna have to give it a try tomorrow.

X-Plosiv · May 24, 2011, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Could i get template for ritualist healer?

UW NM is usually easy, just curious about that ritualist healer.

I'm thinking to run:

SoS - me
Discord - I just like the way they work, to be honest.
Panic
Ineptitude
E-Surge
ritualist healer

...now, instead of Ineptitude i could use monk healer, depends do i really need that healing...did chamber and vale easily, failed at 4h...will now check your ideas

thanks, been reading for weeks!

EFGJack · May 25, 2011, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by batno_mercy

I want to run about 20 times in a row after my exam to build up strategies, see what can be improved and most importantly check out how caster professions can maximise effectiveness here. Should I follow Jeydra's build closely (I'll be doing it on ele, although could try on mesmer as well), or should I do some substitutions in there?

Your best bet is to run Jeydra's build if you're going in as an elementalist, and only changing skills or heroes if you reckon the changes will suit your playstyle better.

@X-Plosiv - I do not have a Rit healer template but I can create one. Do you prefer a Ritualist primary or a N/Rt? Dhuum requires quite a bit of redbarring so I recommend you have more heals than during common play. And Dhuum is immune to conditions so I'll advice against Discord. Although he's been killed with a Discord team.

X-Plosiv · May 25, 2011, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFGJack

Your best bet is to run Jeydra's build if you're going in as an elementalist, and only changing skills or heroes if you reckon the changes will suit your playstyle better.

@X-Plosiv - I do not have a Rit healer template but I can create one. Do you prefer a Ritualist primary or a N/Rt? Dhuum requires quite a bit of redbarring so I recommend you have more heals than during common play. And Dhuum is immune to conditions so I'll advice against Discord. Although he's been killed with a Discord team.

What could I use instead of Discord? I don't have henchs, and I turned Razah to Mesmer for E-Surge (combination of Panic, Ineptitude and E-Surge works well). If there's a possibility, I would rather that Razah stay Mesmer instead of Ritualist because I'm working on VQ titles, so 3 mesmers works faster than 2 ritualists.

I have a lot of experience with UW, except Pits and Waste after update (was an old UWSCer).

I'll run Muddy Terrain since I'm ranger (was thinking to play role as SoS just for some extra dmg).

Thinking to clear chamber, take Unwanted quest, and rush to Plains, then if I do it, was thinking to go to Pits, and if i suceed that both, other seems "easy".

EDIT:

What about 4H in NM?

I was thinking to use tactic "be at reaper, let them come, kill them" or that is not very effective?

or let heroes be on one side, kill, tele to lab, tele back, kill?

EFGJack · May 26, 2011, 04:56 AM // 04:56

I personally haven't tried 4H in NM but Gabs posted that you can easily do 4H NM by using the strategy explained in the original post without Muddy Terrain or Traps - that is just by using rit spirits on the other side. Surely the two other ways you mentioned can be used to finish this quest, but I haven't explored them at all so I'll advice you to try and beat the quest by means I know to work. :P

And tbh you can play Discord if you feel comfortable with it. It kills fast enough to get to Dhuum and you can sacrifice them at the start (vamp weapons, Blood Ritual, anything) to help you will the rest bar faster. Just don't sacrifice them if they're your only healers. However, if you want to play something else than discord you can try Jeydra's air elementalists, or ROJ monks or rainbow mesmers.
Your safest bet would be to turn Razah back into a Ritualist and have a SoS/ST rit and a SoGM necro/rit. While having 3 mesmers is really nice, Norgu & Gwenn are just fine on their own. And keep in mind Domi & Illusion are stronger than 2 domi or 2 illusion in majority of the cases.