Curse

hunter · Dec 11, 2011, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Physway meta build is complete trash. Especially with a war primary which everyone and their mother seem to have. It works equally well with melee sin, dervish, and any other caster willing to equip a melee weapon and get dirty for a change of pace.

Start off with 2 RoJ, 1 for SoH and other for balthazar
1 AoL necro with prots
1 UA healer or another RoJ if you feeling ballsy
1 Dom mesmer with panic mistrust and unnatural signet (though mistrust is being hit hard next patch)
1 ST rit with shelter and union. Add in frozen soil in here when needed
1 SoS resto rit with splinter and ancestors

You can probably figure out and post the full builds on your own since time is something you don't seem to lack

WarcryOfTruth · Dec 11, 2011, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

Physway meta build is complete trash. Especially with a war primary which everyone and their mother seem to have. It works equally well with melee sin, dervish, and any other caster willing to equip a melee weapon and get dirty for a change of pace.

Start off with 2 RoJ, 1 for SoH and other for balthazar
1 AoL necro with prots
1 UA healer or another RoJ if you feeling ballsy
1 Dom mesmer with panic mistrust and unnatural signet (though mistrust is being hit hard next patch)
1 ST rit with shelter and union. Add in frozen soil in here when needed
1 SoS resto rit with splinter and ancestors

You can probably figure out and post the full builds on your own since time is something you don't seem to lack

And here I thought something called "physway" had more than just one physical damaging character. Since when does one martial profession constitute a physical based party?

I'm not trying to troll, or be funny, I know it sounds that way, that's my intention, but in all seriousness, it's a legit question. Wouldn't 'physway' have to have more than just one profession dedicated to physical damage to earn that name?

HigherMinion · Dec 11, 2011, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

And here I thought something called "physway" had more than just one physical damaging character. Since when does one martial profession constitute a physical based party?

I'm not trying to troll, or be funny, I know it sounds that way, that's my intention, but in all seriousness, it's a legit question. Wouldn't 'physway' have to have more than just one profession dedicated to physical damage to earn that name?

Well, hero physway is your melee character being the focus for buffing by all your heroes, that's all.

WarcryOfTruth · Dec 12, 2011, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Well, hero physway is your melee character being the focus for buffing by all your heroes, that's all.

Oh, needs a new name in my opinion.

I actually use physical heroes sometimes, when I saw mention of a sort of 'physway' for heroes, I thought I could come for some outside insight about it to see if there's anything I could change, but thanks!

HigherMinion · Dec 12, 2011, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

Oh, needs a new name in my opinion.

I actually use physical heroes sometimes, when I saw mention of a sort of 'physway' for heroes, I thought I could come for some outside insight about it to see if there's anything I could change, but thanks!

Dark Fury+Weaken Armor on a nec->spears and synergy stuff->orders->profit.

WarcryOfTruth · Dec 12, 2011, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Ya! My main hero team is 3 Paragons, but I don't use necromancers, I use eles

HigherMinion · Dec 12, 2011, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

Ya! My main hero team is 3 Paragons, but I don't use necromancers, I use eles

Post your hero builds here for scrutiny/observation?

Kaida the Heartless · Dec 12, 2011, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Physway is centered around Orders/Mark of Pain and applying as many procs of them as possible in a short period of time. It usually contains 3-4 physical damage dealers and 3-4 support, however depending on the area, you can crank it to 6phys/2supp (Where the supports are AP Caller and Orders/MoP) and if you are a Necro, 7phys/1supp (Where you are the AP Caller and the Orders/MoP). (Technically, the AP Caller is a DPS, but it's there supplementing the Physical Damage in the party, so I just label it as support in this build.)

Hunter is referring to a build that took a large hit during the scythe changes, where before you could run around as a scythe wielding sin smacking targets for 300+ damage in AoE. It still works, albeit not as effectively. I would consider it more of a "buffway" than a "physway" if you want to name it. It involved Asuran Scan (changed, doesn't work any more), +Crit Chance, Orders, Mark of Pain, Strength of Honor, Judge's Insight, and Aura of Holy Might (changed, doesn't work any more).

Warcry is probably using an Orders Ele instead of a Cultist's Fervor Necro.

HigherMinion · Dec 12, 2011, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Physway is centered around Orders/Mark of Pain and applying as many procs of them as possible in a short period of time. It usually contains 3-4 physical damage dealers and 3-4 support, however depending on the area, you can crank it to 6phys/2supp (Where the supports are AP Caller and Orders/MoP) and if you are a Necro, 7phys/1supp (Where you are the AP Caller and the Orders/MoP). (Technically, the AP Caller is a DPS, but it's there supplementing the Physical Damage in the party, so I just label it as support in this build.)

Hunter is referring to a build that took a large hit during the scythe changes, where before you could run around as a scythe wielding sin smacking targets for 300+ damage in AoE. It still works, albeit not as effectively. I would consider it more of a "buffway" than a "physway" if you want to name it. It involved Asuran Scan (changed, doesn't work any more), +Crit Chance, Orders, Mark of Pain, Strength of Honor, Judge's Insight, and Aura of Holy Might (changed, doesn't work any more).

Warcry is probably using an Orders Ele instead of a Cultist's Fervor Necro.

It's the kind of tank and spank setup EFGJack runs, actually. TNSway or just "baller" sound appropriate.

hunter · Dec 13, 2011, 04:00 PM // 16:00

not necessarily. Its not a baller set up, its a "roll your face on your keyboard and win" set up. hence why the extra protection, and the UA hero. RoJs are the only thing you can prolly micro in there and even those i let them on autocast. The build is that effective.

As far as your physway requiring 2+ physicals, keep in mind that melee hero AI is horrendous, and that para dmg is about just as worse. Sure you can abuse splinter weapon or what not but splinter on a warrior spamming WW on cooldown is far superior to any group of paras pretending to do dmg. as it is right now, a caster hero, namely a smiter monk and a mesmer will bring much more to the table compared to a physical hero, while still helping buff up your main.

Unless paras are changed/buffed in next patch, my variant of physway is better.

Kaida the Heartless · Dec 13, 2011, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Physway is less about the effectiveness of a single character and more about the effectiveness of a group of Heroes hitting a MoP'ed target. Paragons may not have massive damage output, but they can fill a support role very effectively while still adding a lot of DPS from both Mark of Pain and Barbs. There are also Rangers and their pets who can also put out respectable DPS in both Bow, Beast Master, and /P setups while also contributing to Mark of Pain and Barbs procs. The /P setup can also synergize with any Paragons in the Party. Getting the most procs in a short period of time is key, and that is what Physway is all about.

It is true, Melee works better in any "Buffway" setup. May as well take advantage of Strength of Honor on as many targets as possible. The AI is slower to react (making it worse with MoP), but there isn't much in the game that can withstand 3 buffed Melee DPS wailing on them.

Honestly, your "Physway" is more of a Casterway modified to suit a Melee primary. Nothing wrong with that. It's equally as effective as any MoP based Physway build, albeit in a slightly different way.

HigherMinion · Dec 13, 2011, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Physway is less about the effectiveness of a single character and more about the effectiveness of a group of Heroes hitting a MoP'ed target. Paragons may not have massive damage output, but they can fill a support role very effectively while still adding a lot of DPS from both Mark of Pain and Barbs. There are also Rangers and their pets who can also put out respectable DPS in both Bow, Beast Master, and /P setups while also contributing to Mark of Pain and Barbs procs. The /P setup can also synergize with any Paragons in the Party. Getting the most procs in a short period of time is key, and that is what Physway is all about.

It is true, Melee works better in any "Buffway" setup. May as well take advantage of Strength of Honor on as many targets as possible. The AI is slower to react (making it worse with MoP), but there isn't much in the game that can withstand 3 buffed Melee DPS wailing on them.

Honestly, your "Physway" is more of a Casterway modified to suit a Melee primary. Nothing wrong with that. It's equally as effective as any MoP based Physway build, albeit in a slightly different way.

I showcased my hero physway build here. Probably needs updating soon due to ele update (change mesmers for eles) because snares and ele damage is cool. A UA smite hero is actually better in place of the OoV hybrid. http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Markway

Lanier · Dec 14, 2011, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

As far as your physway requiring 2+ physicals, keep in mind that melee hero AI is horrendous, and that para dmg is about just as worse.

First, hero AI is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. I roll with dervs in my party pretty often, and I never have problems with their targeting, skill use, etc.

Second, what you suggest is not a physway build. It looks more to me like a normal caster damage build with a couple of physical-support smite skills thrown in. "Physway" is basically taking 2 or 3 physical heroes (I usually use 2 plus my physical player build), and stacking as many physical buffs in your team as possible. Forget the mesmer bars - physway abuses the power of skills like SoH, barbs, MoP, multiple splinters, the orders, and arage + balthazars to take down mobs quickly. A true physway build is the most powerful hero build that you're going to find in terms of raw damage output.

Here's what I use:
Myself (physical player build)
2x VoS dervishes
SoS hero with splinter and resto heals
PoD curser, also has some heals
MM with prots
Cultists Fervor orders necro with a second copy of splinter + arage
Tease smiter

hunter · Dec 14, 2011, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quite squishy with no ST. How far can you get in DoA with it

Lanier · Dec 15, 2011, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

Quite squishy with no ST. How far can you get in DoA with it

ST prot is pretty overrated as a hero build, since heroes are awful at maintaining the spirits. When I need the extra defense, I use an ER prot (which the hero AI uses very well), not a ST. Regardless, the build I posted isn't static. What I posted was for maximum damage output to get through vanquishes/dungeons as fast as possible (since thats what I spend most of my time ingame doing). If you want more defense, than sub in an ER.

Jeydra · Dec 15, 2011, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

First, hero AI is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. I roll with dervs in my party pretty often, and I never have problems with their targeting, skill use, etc.

I roll with empty skillbars pretty often, and I never have problems with their targeting, skill use, etc. They still attack the targets I ask them to, and they don't use skills like they're supposed to.

This is such a bad argument for hero AI being "not nearly as bad as people make it out to be" -_-

That said, I can clear DoA HM with no ST prot, although it might be easier with one, I'm not sure.

Lanier · Dec 15, 2011, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I roll with empty skillbars pretty often, and I never have problems with their targeting, skill use, etc. They still attack the targets I ask them to, and they don't use skills like they're supposed to.

This is such a bad argument for hero AI being "not nearly as bad as people make it out to be" -_-

I hear the "melee AI is bad at targeting" arguement far more often than the "they don't use their skills correctly" arguement, at least for warriors and dervs. Don't scold me on this "being a bad argument" when so many equate the pet AI to that of the melee heroes.

Regardless, my VoS dervs have no problems with their skillbars. They maintain their enchantments and they use their attack skills just as often as a caster would use offensive spells. What more could I ask for?

Kaida the Heartless · Dec 15, 2011, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Melee heroes tend to spend more time running between targets and the player than they need to. It drops their DPS by a large amount. It'd be nice if their aggro was a bit stickier so they would transition between targets better.

HigherMinion · Dec 15, 2011, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

I hear the "melee AI is bad at targeting" arguement far more often than the "they don't use their skills correctly" arguement, at least for warriors and dervs. Don't scold me on this "being a bad argument" when so many equate the pet AI to that of the melee heroes.

Regardless, my VoS dervs have no problems with their skillbars. They maintain their enchantments and they use their attack skills just as often as a caster would use offensive spells. What more could I ask for?

The only issue I have with my derv heroes is not knowing when it's appropriate to Death's Charge into a mob. I've seen MOX run to the enemy THEN shadowstep to it...

Lanier · Dec 16, 2011, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Melee heroes tend to spend more time running between targets and the player than they need to. It drops their DPS by a large amount. It'd be nice if their aggro was a bit stickier so they would transition between targets better.

The aggro/targeting issue is the one that I was discussing earlier. I never really have a problem with it, and I have spent quite a bit of time observing my heroes.

They move/shadowstep to the pinged target, attack it till it dies, than attack the next pinged target just like any of my other casters. Like I said a couple posts back, this seems to be the most common complaint regarding melee heroes but, honestly, I haven't observed any problems with this at all. Apparently, neither has Jeydra, though he claims to have problems with his heroes using their skills correctly (which is probably just an issue of giving them an overcomplicated build).

As for the shadowstep issue, I like to key those skills and slide my finger over those keys as I enter battle (immediately after calling the initial target of course).