Curse

gerg-nad · Sep 13, 2008, 04:50 PM // 16:50

An alternate Sin build is with cupcake use. An I would suggest Air magic is max as this will help the recharge of both Dwarven Stability and shadowstep Spells, as you will get three.
[build prof=A/E Shadow=12+1+16 Air=12 Deadly=3+1][glyph of swiftness][deadly paradox][shadow form][dwarven stability][i am unstoppable][dark escape][heart of shadow][death's charge][/build]

lordheinous · Sep 13, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerg-nad

An alternate Sin build is with cupcake use. An I would suggest Air magic is max as this will help the recharge of both Dwarven Stability and shadowstep Spells, as you will get three.
[build prof=A/E Shadow=12+1+16 Air=12 Deadly=3+1][glyph of swiftness][deadly paradox][shadow form][dwarven stability][i am unstoppable][dark escape][heart of shadow][death's charge][/build]

Dwarven+Dash>>>>trying to perma-dark escape. You don't have to use consumables, and you actually de-aggro as well, even in HM. Granted, it takes some knowledge of where to actually use dash, but if you do it right, you can generally make it to thommis's room without even being hit once by trample greater than half the time.

Karate Jesus · Sep 15, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

So, for a cryway necro I would basically either need to have Echo and copy CoP or go N/R with SS and FS?

Sorry if this is a stupid question. I'm just trying to find out the necro build for cryway.

tuna-fish_sushi · Sep 15, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Cryway necro should be
Echo
Arcane Echo
Cry of Pain
Ether Nightmare
Mindbender
Optional
Optional
Optional

Optional's should probably be AoE hexes like Suffering etc also Ether signet is a good idea.

snodaard · Sep 15, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

no Cryway necro should bring FoC becouse it is a boosted CoP

Karate Jesus · Sep 15, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

That's my problem. Some people say to echo CoP, some people say to bring FoC with CoP, and some people say N/R with SS/FS/and EoE. I'm guessing that it just depends on the group huh?

My Lipgloss is Cool · Sep 15, 2008, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Look at it this way;
Let's assume that we have max Sunspear rank, and 16 Curses (Sup runes? You shouldn't be getting hit, so why not?) Let's assume that every foe is Hexed, and let's pretend that both CoP and FoC have the same range.

FoC would deal 126 damage per enemy, per cast. After 4 casts (which would take 60 seconds of recharging and 8 seconds of casting) you would deal 504 damage.

CoP would deal 100 damage per enemy, per cast. After 5 casts (which would take 60 seconds of recharging, and 1+1/4 seconds of casting) you would deal 500 damage.

Now they sound similar, and hell, FoC might sound better (more damage per cast is better, right?), except for a couple of things.
*FoC has a two second cast, while CoP has a 1/4 second cast. While you're busy casting FoC, you could be casting something else after casting CoP.
*FoC requires that every enemy be hexed for it's best damage, while CoP only requires your target to be hexed.
*CoP interrupts
*And, most importantly, FoC has a range of adjacent. CoP has a range of 'in the Area' which is about twice as large.

So, you could be using FoC, or you could have another copy of CoP

sibelang · Sep 16, 2008, 01:48 AM // 01:48

somany pro in few days omg!

Stop The Storm · Sep 22, 2008, 10:51 AM // 10:51

can someone help me with the perma run

i throw up my swiftness, paradox and SF, go in, get past first group, then do my dwarven stability and dark escape

i hit i am unstoppable when i get to the modnirs

now i get to by the stairs, try to throw up my swift, paradox and sf again, but just get swamped and i dont think the sf goes up as i keep dying?

any help or advice on how it should be done

cheers

*edit*

im making it 50% of the time, but other 50 my SF is getting interrupted by the stairs

Stop The Storm · Sep 22, 2008, 11:35 AM // 11:35

nvm, 1st run with people got an r11 VS lmao

*edit* and just got an r9 tactics amethyist aegis

Damian979 · Sep 22, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stop The Storm

can someone help me with the perma run

i throw up my swiftness, paradox and SF, go in, get past first group, then do my dwarven stability and dark escape

i hit i am unstoppable when i get to the modnirs

now i get to by the stairs, try to throw up my swift, paradox and sf again, but just get swamped and i dont think the sf goes up as i keep dying?

any help or advice on how it should be done

cheers

*edit*

im making it 50% of the time, but other 50 my SF is getting interrupted by the stairs

I like to use a shield set with a reduced poison insc and +45hp w/ enchant and swap to staff for emergency energy.

The whole run is about timing. [glyph of swiftness][deadly paradox][shadowform][I am unstoppable][dwarven stability] (r7 or above)[dark escape][death's charge][feigned neutrality] 16 SA, 12 air magic

Cast your perma chain, stability, dark escape before stepping on the bridge. Your second perma chain will come up before you aggro the group at the stairs. Use IAU, then perma chain, stability/ escape, neutrality. This will get you around the corner and through the door way before needing to recast.

You DO NOT want to try and cast while in this group, they pummel you with choking gas and you will not get through if you do.

The last sf cast should be right before aggroing Thommis' group. Repeat the chain you used before the stairs and swing the corner wide to pick up the whole group then head for the wall. Only use the shadow step if you are body blocked or you need an emergency heal.

I practiced with h/h until I got it down to avoid the "pug love" that comes with dying. Since then, I have died 3 times out of 200+ runs and two of those were from rubberbanding and lag.

Karate Jesus · Sep 22, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

So far this was my best drop. It was Q9 command.

I've only seen about 4 VS's drop so far.

flipfly2004 · Sep 22, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

iv been running and i usually never die unless i get rubberbanded and i never use dwarven stability.... the trick is:

de-aggro the 1st mob group (with those horsies). u can achieve this by running to the closed gate which leads to the other boss... there u can recast the SF chain 1 more time... wait for energy recharge... then the sf chain again (dont forget to hit "i am the unstopable" and deaths cahrge to a foe, hit dash then dark escape to thommis... et voilà!

komma · Sep 22, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stop The Storm

nvm, 1st run with people got an r11 VS lmao
*edit* and just got an r9 tactics amethyist aegis

this is bush league.....100+ runs and i have seen only one drop (it wasnt for me of course). atleast crafting d-weps is going to be crazy cheap

Stop The Storm · Sep 22, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

I like to use a shield set with a reduced poison insc and +45hp w/ enchant and swap to staff for emergency energy.

The whole run is about timing. [glyph of swiftness][deadly paradox][shadowform][I am unstoppable][dwarven stability] (r7 or above)[dark escape][death's charge][feigned neutrality] 16 SA, 12 air magic

Cast your perma chain, stability, dark escape before stepping on the bridge. Your second perma chain will come up before you aggro the group at the stairs. Use IAU, then perma chain, stability/ escape, neutrality. This will get you around the corner and through the door way before needing to recast.

You DO NOT want to try and cast while in this group, they pummel you with choking gas and you will not get through if you do.

The last sf cast should be right before aggroing Thommis' group. Repeat the chain you used before the stairs and swing the corner wide to pick up the whole group then head for the wall. Only use the shadow step if you are body blocked or you need an emergency heal.

I practiced with h/h until I got it down to avoid the "pug love" that comes with dying. Since then, I have died 3 times out of 200+ runs and two of those were from rubberbanding and lag.

awesome cheers mate

switched to your build, took out my dash and put in neutrality, seems alot easier now to get past the 2 mobs on stairs.

only died once all night so pretty happy considering i was dying every first run pretty much!

Unreal Havoc · Sep 23, 2008, 07:39 AM // 07:39

The trick, at least from how I do the run, is to use Dash to get away from the mobs before punching Dark Escape, you shouldn't need to take Feigned Neutrality. I used to take Shadow Sanctuay before as I used to suffer similar problems until I nailed the run, now I've got my timings down I don't really need the self heal as Death's Charge is more than enough.

Damian979 · Sep 23, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

I don't have a problem getting past mobs and they lose aggro once to go beyond their pull range anyway.

Where I really appreciate having neutrality is once you get to the wall to survive the death novas. You can't always find a monk that reliably can keep p.spirit on you or a group that knows to take out the summoners before they make a wall of minions. Permanent dark escape + neutrality can make up the difference for this.

gerg-nad · Sep 23, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

A good damage and sin team should get the wall down in 3 minutes or less. 2 minutes is a very good run.

RebelHero · Sep 23, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17

I use alcohol only when I'm high on DP. Which means I'll probably leave the party after that run. If I dont get perfect runs, its not worth it. I've done 70+ runs now [not that much]... and I got it on my third solo attempt. The only times I die is when I get a really bad spawn, which can be solved with alcohol (only needed 5 times in my 70+ runs). Or Choking gas on Shadow form... good god its rare but it happens. Meaning I dont die within my range of control, I dont use high ranks in anything and I dont use feigned. DC is all I need for heals.

Recognizing bad spawns is very helpful too. if its bad, improvise. There are a few safe spots in there to get your stuff together and charge in again.

In short, if you really are a perma-sin. Running a die-hard bar built for speed, there are only a few things that can kill you. And all the right reasons to leave a bad party.
- Choking Gas
- Rubberbanding
- Lag (fix your internets)
- Bad Spawn (Alcohol)
- bad Monking (Come on... how hard is it to keep an invincible person alive...? Its not, cuz I've done the monk part for a long time too)

My advise too perma sins is, learn to do it fast and good. Otherwise get Cry of pain and start Assassins promise nuking with the other guys. To the monks, heal good, or dont heal at all. R/any Any/R... keep that damn FS up... And the rest dont try anything funny... Cryway is all you need, and all i want to see...

Little guide for the Sins:
- First part
-- Stability -> Escape -> SF - Stability -> Eascape -> Dash -> SF - Stability -> Eascape -> Dash -> SF - Stability -> Eascape -> Dash -> SF - Stability -> Eascape -> Dash -> SF - Stability -> Eascape -> Dash
Last SF should be cast almost in the river
-- Second Part... come on you can run to a portal.. right?
-- Third Part... Run past first group. Wait at crossroads, dont aggro any other groups. Second group with one modnirr is allowed. When your chain is recharged run in and use IAU. Pick a target at the stairs and use DC... When about 10 feet from the stairs use Dash to lose aggro. Keep running, recast when needed. Target Thommis for your party and bring him home.

Stop The Storm · Sep 24, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

might give that way a go how you said, ive got it nailed without dash and with neutrility/ heart of shadow, but its bloody hard work lol