Curse

LightningHell · Dec 09, 2007, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Thread pruned.

Please stick to rational arguments without ad hominem attacks.

On a second note, I'll bring up by previous posts for discussion.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...1&postcount=81

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=90

Div · Dec 09, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

For you bad players who keep getting on lightninghell's ass:

A hammer bar back in prophecies looked like this (from WM vs LuM):
Backbreaker, crushing, irresistible, sprint, frenzy, heal sig, gale, rez sig

A hammer bar now looks like this (from dR vs TuX):
Devastating, crushing, hammer bash, bulls strike, sprint, enraging, flail, death pact

They're slightly different bar styles, but you can see the improvements with the new skills. Enraging allows for an insane number of KDs, especially on a bar that already gives 3 KDs when adren is charged. Flail is much superior to frenzy on a hammer warrior simply because the warrior is much less prone to getting killed when spiking. Death pact gives it a lot more utility in terms of moving hard rezzes around. The only thing you lose is gale lock, but that's not the power of the warrior anyways. It was just a lame skill anyone can use and abuse.

I'm not going to post sword bars but it should be blatantly obvious the addition of cripslash and dragonslash makes them superior to their sever-gash-final counterparts in prophecies days.

Axe warriors are relatively unchanged in power, since they got rend touch utility along with body blow and enraging charge, but got some of their original skills nerfed.

Then when you compare the boonprots to monks today, monks were way better off back then.

It all leads to a relative slight increase in warrior power.

And with mending touch, it makes the W/Mo better than ever!

If you think warriors are useless, you're bad at the game. Bye.

ghostlyfenix · Dec 09, 2007, 08:16 AM // 08:16

i reckon the ops useless not warriors

phoenixar · Dec 09, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernii

This was all PVE, so I went to AB, PVP, GvG... and wow....
I mean... wow....
The Warrior can't take any profession down, unless he has a GOOD healer, and the other not.
I have seen tanking spellcasters, damage dealing Rangers, you name it.

I frequently take several players on at once with my W/P build and come out alive.. as other people said.. this is build wars.. although I do agree a lot of the time warriors are just plain hapless without a healer backing them up.

ensoriki · Dec 09, 2007, 01:13 PM // 13:13

IMO the warrior is not supposed to be a killer.
The warrior provides that constant pressure, if you cannot deal with the pressure than you die. Warriors can deal constant pressure because they have that staying power from strong Armor and other skills.
A hammer warrior is going to piss off anybody and everybody with the KD and its strong damage.
The warrior doesn't need to kill because he can just pressure a foe and then let the back line/casters finish it for him.
Or he can pressure and have the Dervish or Assassin seal the deal.

If you havent had a hammer warrior on you, you wouldn't understand.
The fact that their damage is consistently strong without skills means unlike being Wanded or assassin dagger attacks (that do not critical or dual strike) its going to bloody hurt.

Warriors can spike, but a hammer warrior can always pressure.

Warriors are still fat though.

Chicken Ftw · Dec 09, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Read entire thread just for the lulz. Basically, if you're looking to find anything remotely useful out of this thread, only read the posts by LightningHell, Savio, or holymasamune.

yum · Dec 09, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

IMO the warrior is not supposed to be a killer.
The warrior provides that constant pressure, if you cannot deal with the pressure than you die. Warriors can deal constant pressure because they have that staying power from strong Armor and other skills.
A hammer warrior is going to piss off anybody and everybody with the KD and its strong damage.
The warrior doesn't need to kill because he can just pressure a foe and then let the back line/casters finish it for him.
Or he can pressure and have the Dervish or Assassin seal the deal.

lul wat?
123456

Magikarp · Dec 09, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

IMO the warrior is not supposed to be a killer.
The warrior provides that constant pressure, if you cannot deal with the pressure than you die. Warriors can deal constant pressure because they have that staying power from strong Armor and other skills.
A hammer warrior is going to piss off anybody and everybody with the KD and its strong damage.
The warrior doesn't need to kill because he can just pressure a foe and then let the back line/casters finish it for him.
Or he can pressure and have the Dervish or Assassin seal the deal.

If you havent had a hammer warrior on you, you wouldn't understand.
The fact that their damage is consistently strong without skills means unlike being Wanded or assassin dagger attacks (that do not critical or dual strike) its going to bloody hurt.

Warriors can spike, but a hammer warrior can always pressure.

Warriors are still fat though.

lol whaaaaat??? warriors do the killing and make pressure. the "backline" is also support/pressure. a necro? simply cast and hopes someone activates their skills. an ele, either is defensive (earth), supportive (fire), snaring/utility (water), or somewhat damage dealing support (air/blind). rangers are support and disrupters, they really won't kill a whole lot alone, and mesmers simply put the boot to every class in their own way, but rarely killing something. you're not going to see a lot of sins in HA/GvG, and dervs are really not all that popular there yet either. paragons are great support/utility, and can assist well in spikes and pressure, and you know what monks and rits do i hope.

in terms of pve, you can anything, with pretty much any class, minus maybe a mesmer consistantly, but if you want the best, fastest, safest results, nothing beats fire, monk, SY!/WY! dragon spamming, and a pwn your face train that the holy trinity makes.

this isnt to say this is how the game should ever be played, all bias and ignorant that there are a few builds that make all these statements out of the norm, but in pvp, thats pretty much it, so i have no clue where you figure warriors arent meant for killing, when they do it better than any other class...

ensoriki · Dec 09, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

lol whaaaaat??? warriors do the killing and make pressure. the "backline" is also support/pressure. a necro? simply cast and hopes someone activates their skills. an ele, either is defensive (earth), supportive (fire), snaring/utility (water), or somewhat damage dealing support (air/blind). rangers are support and disrupters, they really won't kill a whole lot alone, and mesmers simply put the boot to every class in their own way, but rarely killing something. you're not going to see a lot of sins in HA/GvG, and dervs are really not all that popular there yet either. paragons are great support/utility, and can assist well in spikes and pressure, and you know what monks and rits do i hope.

in terms of pve, you can anything, with pretty much any class, minus maybe a mesmer consistantly, but if you want the best, fastest, safest results, nothing beats fire, monk, SY!/WY! dragon spamming, and a pwn your face train that the holy trinity makes.

this isnt to say this is how the game should ever be played, all bias and ignorant that there are a few builds that make all these statements out of the norm, but in pvp, thats pretty much it, so i have no clue where you figure warriors arent meant for killing, when they do it better than any other class...

Perhaps I should rephrase it, I was comparing the warriors killing ability to an assassins. In where a warrior does not straight out kill you like an assassin does.
Generally you see a warrior train you and then spike. I was also using Hammer warrior as an example, which is that great frontline character, but I always feel like there more pressure oriented.
I'm not a genius on warriors tho so don't shoot.

yum · Dec 09, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Perhaps I should rephrase it, I was comparing the warriors killing ability to an assassins. In where a warrior does not straight out kill you like an assassin does.
Generally you see a warrior train you and then spike. I was also using Hammer warrior as an example, which is that great frontline character, but I always feel like there more pressure oriented.
I'm not a genius on warriors tho so don't shoot.

The amount of damage the assasin can make in 4 skills = only evis + executer.

Bai.

Yukito Kunisaki · Dec 10, 2007, 09:58 PM // 21:58

you fail at two basic rules

Deep Wounds. Warrior without deep wound = no 'real' damage dealt...
strength sucks. There are too many mathematical arguments AGAINST strength to even consider using it...

It ONLY kicks in when you do attack skills. Now if that's the case, the +xx damage from your skills will ignore armor anyway, why bother? Expand your hp? What's your monk doing? Healing your casters? Why are they getting hit, didn't you hold aggro properly?

when strength was Godly in the open beta years ago [2% armor penetration on any attack], strength had some use

these days, it's just fluff to put the very VERY last points of your stats into. Get a secondary class and exploit their strengths.

Crom The Pale · Dec 11, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

you fail at two basic rules

Deep Wounds. Warrior without deep wound = no 'real' damage dealt...
strength sucks. There are too many mathematical arguments AGAINST strength to even consider using it...

It ONLY kicks in when you do attack skills. Now if that's the case, the +xx damage from your skills will ignore armor anyway, why bother? Expand your hp? What's your monk doing? Healing your casters? Why are they getting hit, didn't you hold aggro properly?

when strength was Godly in the open beta years ago [2% armor penetration on any attack], strength had some use

these days, it's just fluff to put the very VERY last points of your stats into. Get a secondary class and exploit their strengths.

While deep wound is a great skill for speeding up kills, it does have one draw back. When facing tough foes, such as bosses, since it can only be applied once it might as well be a dead skill untill your target is destroyed. In most PvE cases replacing deepwound with a skill that causes armor ignoring damage can work better.

As for Strength, I personally find several skills in that line to be excelent. That being said its inherent effect is totaly worthless and barely even noticable with 16 points in strength. Something really should be done to buff strength, possibly adding 1 point of damage for each point in strength or -1 damage reduction would be appropriate.

To get back on topic, while it it possible to play without a warrior in your pary, I certainly would never do so by choice. They have so many uses and in the right players control can make the diffence between victory and party wipe.

Pyro maniac · Dec 11, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

While deep wound is a great skill for speeding up kills, it does have one draw back. When facing tough foes, such as bosses, since it can only be applied once it might as well be a dead skill untill your target is destroyed. In most PvE cases replacing deepwound with a skill that causes armor ignoring damage can work better.

but then, the 20% healing reduction kicks in =)

glountz · Dec 11, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

The amount of damage the assasin can make in 4 skills = only evis + executer.

Bai.

Are you implying that the Evisc-Exec-Agonizing is as overpowered as any sin dagger chain combo?
Just understand me, I say this because I got flamed down by Holymasamune when I sayed that since the BLS nerf, the sins chains were not overpowered (I would even say "suck"), and that a good ol'Evisc chain was as mindless damage than BLS-TF-BSS-BoS.

Savio · Dec 11, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

strength sucks. There are too many mathematical arguments AGAINST strength to even consider using it...

[card]Enraging Charge[/card][card]Flail[/card]

Strength's inherent ability isn't awesome, but you generally aren't dying for the extra attribute points. Plus, Tactics isn't too useful in PvE, and you need to spec for a shield.

yum · Dec 11, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Are you implying that the Evisc-Exec-Agonizing is as overpowered as any sin dagger chain combo?
Just understand me, I say this because I got flamed down by Holymasamune when I sayed that since the BLS nerf, the sins chains were not overpowered (I would even say "suck"), and that a good ol'Evisc chain was as mindless damage than BLS-TF-BSS-BoS.

No

Ghosh.... reading comprehension is FTW. That's only about damage.

Draginvry · Dec 11, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Tactics isn't too useful in PvE

Watch Yourself is one of the most usefull skills in the game. But other than that, I would much rather have strength instead of tactics, mostly for stances.

LockerLoad · Dec 11, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Are you implying that the Evisc-Exec-Agonizing is as overpowered as any sin dagger chain combo?
Just understand me, I say this because I got flamed down by Holymasamune when I sayed that since the BLS nerf, the sins chains were not overpowered (I would even say "suck"), and that a good ol'Evisc chain was as mindless damage than BLS-TF-BSS-BoS.

Yum straight out states that Evisc + Exe = any 4 attack sin combo

Feel free to disregard that statement as blatantly misleading rhetoric. It makes little more sense than

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

lul wat?
123456

But if you've been reading the blatant contradictions posted by the warrior fanboys here regarding armor/absorption nerfs etc. this sort of thing shouldn't come as a surprise

Gigashadow · Dec 11, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draginvry

Watch Yourself is one of the most usefull skills in the game. But other than that, I would much rather have strength instead of tactics, mostly for stances.

It is indeed very good, but these days you can just use Save Yourselves! with Dragon Slash (as well as For Great Justice! and Flail for good measure, and Enduring Harmony as a /P secondary if you really want FGJ on for 30s out of every 45s), and not have to spec into tactics at all.

Savio · Dec 11, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draginvry

Watch Yourself is one of the most usefull skills in the game.

Hi, my name is "Save Yourselves!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by LockerLoad

But if you've been reading the blatant contradictions posted by the warrior fanboys here regarding armor/absorption nerfs etc. this sort of thing shouldn't come as a surprise

In case you missed it the first few times, nobody gives a shit about armor/absorption nerfs because those are the least important aspects of a warrior.