Curse

Cebe · Dec 06, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Well, I've spent a bit of money on my Warrior of late, and acquired her a new Hammer, so I figured I should use her a bit. I designed the following build, because I love Earth Shaker.

[skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Mokele Smash[/skill][skill]Earth Shaker[/skill][wiki]Pulverising Smash[/wiki][skill]Yeti Smash[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]Signet of Return[/skill]

On it's own, Enraging Charge, "FGJ!" + Mokele Smash charges up Earthshaker, which is pretty cool. I guess this build isn't too special on it's own...it just seems like a bog standard Warrior build. I've been toying around with these heroes:

General Morgahn
Attack Skill, Attack Skill, [skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill][skill]"Find Their Weakness!"[/skill][skill]"Never Surrender!"[/skill][skill]"Stand Your Ground!"[/skill][skill]Anthem of Fury[/skill][skill]Signet of Return[/skill]

Master of Whispers
[skill]Order of the Vampire[/skill][skill]Dark Fury[/skill][skill]Vampiric Gaze[/skill][skill]Mark of Fury[/skill][skill]Strip Enchantment[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

Usually with 2 monk hench, and Warrior/Ranger Hench.

Ok, so now onto my questions.

1. If I were to use Razah as a third hero, with a Weapon of Fury, Ancestor's Rage, Restoration Magic sort of build, would the adrenaline gain from all 3 heroes be overkill, or is it more the case of "The more adrenaline the better"? Would this mean I could get rid of "For Great Justice" in favor of, say, a utility skill, or a PvE skill?

2. My build, for PvE, any comments? I was considering using a similar build in AB...since it was working pretty well for me. I was using Yeti Smash in PvE because of it's AoE applications, but would, say, Fierce Blow work better for an Alliance Battle build, or are Hammers out of the question for AB anyway?

3. Any comments on the hero builds? Is there any more synergy I could squeeze out there? Is General Morgahn's "Find Their Weakness!" deep wound overkill? Any ideas for the 3rd hero? I'm leaning toward Razah but...any thoughts? Perhaps another Warrior or Paragon for more physical damage fun?

Notes:

I don't use my warrior in Hard Mode.
I'm more than happy to sacrifice my Res Skill if there is something else worth taking.
I love the AoE KD of Earth Shaker, with the huge adrenaline gains from the Hero's buffs, it makes Earth Shaker pretty quick to charge.

blue.rellik · Dec 06, 2007, 10:48 AM // 10:48

I use [skill]Crude Swing[/skill] -> [skill]Earth shaker[/skill] -> Whirlwind Attack -> Earthshaker -> [skill]Crude Swing[/skill]. It's basically Triple Chop for hammers except it keeps the monsters lying there. I'll try it with your hero set up as well

Wakka · Dec 06, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

1. If I were to use Razah as a third hero, with a Weapon of Fury, Ancestor's Rage, Restoration Magic sort of build, would the adrenaline gain from all 3 heroes be overkill, or is it more the case of "The more adrenaline the better"? Would this mean I could get rid of "For Great Justice" in favor of, say, a utility skill, or a PvE skill?

I think it is a bit overkill, your already gaining a large mount of adren from Mark of Fury, Dark Fury and Anthem of Fury, combine this with Flail and I dont think you'll ever be too low on energy. I would drop FGJ for some utility like you suggested? Maybe [text=skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill]

Quote:

2. My build, for PvE, any comments? I was considering using a similar build in AB...since it was working pretty well for me. I was using Yeti Smash in PvE because of it's AoE applications, but would, say, Fierce Blow work better for an Alliance Battle build, or are Hammers out of the question for AB anyway?

I love the build itself, and I would loke to see Earthshaker used more. As for AB I think it is viable, but you might wanna try using secondary profession skills such [skill=text]Guiding Hands[/skill], [skill=text]Guided Weapon[/skill] or [skill=text]Expose Defenses[/skill] to avoid all the blockway going about. You may also want to consider bringing [skill=text]Wild Blow[/skill].

I myself would use Fierce Blow over Yeti Smash ^^

Quote:

3. Any comments on the hero builds? Is there any more synergy I could squeeze out there? Is General Morgahn's "Find Their Weakness!" deep wound overkill? Any ideas for the 3rd hero? I'm leaning toward Razah but...any thoughts.

AoE!

Get an ele in there with the likes of Savannah Heat and Searing Heat to really mix it up ^^

Hope any of my ramblings help.

Cebe · Dec 06, 2007, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

I use [skill]Crude Swing[/skill] -> [skill]Earth shaker[/skill] -> Whirlwind Attack -> Earthshaker -> [skill]Crude Swing[/skill]. It's basically Triple Chop for hammers except it keeps the monsters lying there. I'll try it with your hero set up as well

That's a neat trick. I should try out Crude Swing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakka

I love the build itself, and I would loke to see Earthshaker used more. As for AB I think it is viable, but you might wanna try using secondary profession skills such [skill=text]Guiding Hands[/skill], [skill=text]Guided Weapon[/skill] or [skill=text]Expose Defenses[/skill] to avoid all the blockway going about. You may also want to consider bringing [skill=text]Wild Blow[/skill].

I myself would use Fierce Blow over Yeti Smash ^^

Yes you're right. A lot of blocking in AB sometimes. Perhaps Wild Blow, and/or Guilding Hands.

I was thinking Fierce Blow for AB instead of Yeti Smash because of the +damage if target is weakened. There's also [wiki]Overbearing Smash[/wiki], but I guess it might not be required with Wild Blow.

A Leprechaun · Dec 06, 2007, 11:28 AM // 11:28

I would take Crude Swingor Whirlwind Attack over Yeti Smash, for extar adrenloine gain, and Crushing Blow over Pulverizing, but this is just preferance.
Looks good, Earthshaker can own really hard in PvE.

~A Leprechaun~

Pyro maniac · Dec 06, 2007, 11:32 AM // 11:32

[skill]Belly Smash[/skill] may be nice as an optional, although recharge time is high ..

Wakka · Dec 06, 2007, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Crushing Blow over Pulverizing

I love pulv myself <3

But its a very nice change to see a hammer war instead of the usual axe/sword wars.

nebuchanezzar · Dec 06, 2007, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Welcome to playing with hammers =].
ES is a fun elite. I really like the Crude > ES > Whirling > ES > Crude > ES >Whirling thing, it's just fun to keep a group perma kd.
With all the necro help I don't think you need FGJ. If you don't have the necro support the [skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill] and [skill]Enduring Harmony[/skill].
Same idea as the DS swords, as long as you have 4 or more mobs each swing of Whirlwind or Crude recharges ES. By the way, Flail(or any IAS) is actually counter-productive when doing this in pve as at regular attack speed it's constant KD. Also, if you go with this style of attacking then Yeti Smash is also redundant as using it breaks your KD/recharge chain and both Crude/Whirlwind do AoE damage while charging ES.

About Pulverizing Smash..when I first saw a hammer adrenal skill with DW I was very stoked but PSmash has some serious drawbacks, not killers but serious. Your build as is, is probably better off with PSmash as you already have plenty of energy skills.

This is all pve though, for pvp there are some "required" skills missing, imo. Keeping with ES for your elite a suggestion might be:
[skill]Earth Shaker[/skill][skill]Crushing Blow[/skill] OR Pulverizing Smash[skill]Bull's Strike[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]Rush[/skill] and 2 utility spots for self healing etcs. I did include 2 speed buffs because I'm assuming AB where movement is so key and also why no rez is included. Your secondary profession is open entirely also. You many want /Monk for [skill]Mending Touch[/skill], or /Ele for [skill]Shock[/skill]. Remember the point of AB is to cap shrines though. You may choose a defensive stance or something also. Dervish secondary for [skill]Guiding Hands[/skill] is a suggestion I would agree with also to make sure your combo hits.
Enough of me spouting gibberish. Play around with your build. GL and HF.

Cebe · Dec 06, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar

About Pulverizing Smash..when I first saw a hammer adrenal skill with DW I was very stoked but PSmash has some serious drawbacks, not killers but serious. Your build as is, is probably better off with PSmash as you already have plenty of energy skills.

This is all pve though, for pvp there are some "required" skills missing, imo. Keeping with ES for your elite a suggestion might be:
[skill]Earth Shaker[/skill][skill]Crushing Blow[/skill] OR Pulverizing Smash[skill]Bull's Strike[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]Rush[/skill] and 2 utility spots for self healing etcs.

When I played with Hammers in the past I used Devastating Hammer > Crushing Blow. But it seems to me that Earth Shaker > Pulverising Smash is better, because the target still gets weakness and deep wound, but the KD is AoE.

Enduring Harmony might be useful in AB where there is no sure fire support for adrenaline gain. Also going /P lets me take Remedy Signet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar

Your secondary profession is open entirely also. You many want /Monk for [skill]Mending Touch[/skill],

It doesn't matter how good monk skills are, I physically can't let myself switch to /Mo. Wammo Stigma. Need I say more?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebuchanezzar

or /Ele for [skill]Shock[/skill].

Is shock necessary when Hammer Mastery is stacked with KD?

Wakka · Dec 06, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

It doesn't matter how good monk skills are, I physically can't let myself switch to /Mo. Wammo Stigma. Need I say more?

/signed. Outlaw Wammos.

Shocks not needed at all imo.

Racthoh · Dec 06, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Master of Whispers
[skill]Order of the Vampire[/skill][skill]Dark Fury[/skill][skill]Vampiric Gaze[/skill][skill]Mark of Fury[/skill][skill]Strip Enchantment[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill][/list]

Order of the Vampire won't work.

This is the build I currently run on my N/Rt with my paragon:

[skill]Order of Pain[/skill][skill]Dark Fury[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Icy Veins[/skill][skill]Blood Renewal[/skill][skill]Masochism[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

It's pretty great because the hero has lots of energy to use the first four skills endlessly, and those skills are pretty amazing at powering physicals with the AoE support. Dark Fury with Whirlwind Attack and Crude should be enough to chain the Earth Shaker while Splinter Weapon explodes things.

Alternatively there is the D/N version for Order of Pain + Dark Fury that provides more healing support than offensive.

[skill]Arcane Zeal[/skill][skill]Order of Pain[/skill][skill]Dark Fury[/skill][skill]Vow of Piety[/skill][skill]Mystic Healing[/skill][skill]Faithful Intervention[/skill][skill]Watchful Intervention[/skill][skill]Blood Renewal[/skill] or [skill]Dwayna's Touch[/skill]

I've found both of those builds do what I want them to do very well; give me more adrenaline and damage.

Tyla · Dec 06, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

this looks...well what can i say? brilliant!
worth taking into account of my "Try Now!!!" list.

Cebe · Dec 07, 2007, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Order of the Vampire won't work.

/doh. Didn't notice the "not under another Necromancer Enchantment". I've only ever used OotV on it's own in the past, so when I came to consider Dark Fury I didn't coinsider that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

This is the build I currently run on my N/Rt with my paragon:

[skill]Order of Pain[/skill][skill]Dark Fury[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Icy Veins[/skill][skill]Blood Renewal[/skill][skill]Masochism[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

It's pretty great because the hero has lots of energy to use the first four skills endlessly, and those skills are pretty amazing at powering physicals with the AoE support. Dark Fury with Whirlwind Attack and Crude should be enough to chain the Earth Shaker while Splinter Weapon explodes things.

That build I like very very much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Alternatively there is the D/N version for Order of Pain + Dark Fury that provides more healing support than offensive.

[skill]Arcane Zeal[/skill][skill]Order of Pain[/skill][skill]Dark Fury[/skill][skill]Vow of Piety[/skill][skill]Mystic Healing[/skill][skill]Faithful Intervention[/skill][skill]Watchful Intervention[/skill][skill]Blood Renewal[/skill] or [skill]Dwayna's Touch[/skill]

I've found both of those builds do what I want them to do very well; give me more adrenaline and damage.

Is the D/N build suitable for a hero? It looks simple enough for one to use..

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

this looks...well what can i say? brilliant!
worth taking into account of my "Try Now!!!" list.

Just so long as you take no notice of my Necro orders build.

Consider Racthoh's instead.

blue.rellik · Dec 07, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

It's pretty great because the hero has lots of energy to use the first four skills endlessly, and those skills are pretty amazing at powering physicals with the AoE support. Dark Fury with Whirlwind Attack and Crude should be enough to chain the Earth Shaker while Splinter Weapon explodes things.

Have you considered [skill]Weapon of Fury[/skill]? I don't have Factions so I chucked that in there and it seemed to work well enough. What are you thoughts on it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Is the D/N build suitable for a hero? It looks simple enough for one to use..

A hero can use it just fine.

bungusmaximus · Dec 07, 2007, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Is Pulverizing Smash still bugged? (it used to fail when target isnt knocked down).

Cebe · Dec 07, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Is Pulverizing Smash still bugged? (it used to fail when target isnt knocked down).

It does still fail if target is not knocked down.

Racthoh · Dec 07, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Is the D/N build suitable for a hero? It looks simple enough for one to use.

The only skill on that bar that the hero doesn't use too effectively is Watchful Intervention. I'll typically pre-cast it on the hero before a mob given its huge duration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Have you considered [skill]Weapon of Fury[/skill]? I don't have Factions so I chucked that in there and it seemed to work well enough. What are you thoughts on it?

It's a decent enough skill the only problem is generally every warrior nowadays is taking For Great Justice! (and usually Enduring Harmony) so Weapon of Fury isn't doing a whole lot. Also ever since the AI was tweaked so heroes could use Splinter Weapon properly it's hard to use anything else.

Cebe · Dec 07, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

I use [skill]Crude Swing[/skill] -> [skill]Earth shaker[/skill] -> Whirlwind Attack -> Earthshaker -> [skill]Crude Swing[/skill]. It's basically Triple Chop for hammers except it keeps the monsters lying there. I'll try it with your hero set up as well

Sir, I am in your debt.

That is the single most FUN build I have EVER played on my Warrior.

And @ Racthoh, that D/N build works like a charm.

I tried the whole thing with Splinter Weapon and that's just the icing on the cake. Stuff doesn't live.

Valeria · Dec 07, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

I personally like [skill]earth shaker[/skill] [skill]aftershock[/skill]

Most fun i ever had (getting rude comments in AB often

)
[skill]grapple[/skill][skill]"i meant to do that!"[/skill][skill]devastating hammer[/skill][skill]pulverizing smash[/skill][skill]hammer bash[/skill][skill]"for great justice!"[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]enduring harmony[/skill]
just dont froget stonefist insignia use (enduring harmony then) fgj and then hammer down the combo (and dont knock down before enemy is standing again) never counted but it should be no problem to get 10+knockdowns in a row

enduring harmony could be replaced with another skill maybe heal signet or club of a thousand bears

Age · Dec 07, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

I would go with Conterblow,Crushing Blow,Earthshacker,Protectors Defence,Heal Sig,Flail.Enraging Charge,Signet of Return.

I personally like Devastating and Backbreaker.