Curse

Torqual · Mar 06, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Breakpoints. 14 Strength is the magic value for almost everything. In this case I have recommended Tiger Stance, so 14 gets you the extra second of duration.

If I remember correctly, there are very few breakpoints in Weapon Attacks at all; they are mainly just +1 damage here or there. I tend to look for the key breakpoints which give an extra second, an extra strike of adrenaline, an extra point of energy etc, that is to say something like a 25% increase in the effectiveness of a skill rather than 5% increase.

Tyla · Mar 06, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

No, it really is.

I'm best rephrasing it then...
Isn't essential, but if you haven't got one you'll be doing less damage than you want and need to...
But you've got a point....DOWN WITH WARRIORS WITHOUT IAS!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

Breakpoints. 14 Strength is the magic value for almost everything. In this case I have recommended Tiger Stance, so 14 gets you the extra second of duration.

If I remember correctly, there are very few breakpoints in Weapon Attacks at all; they are mainly just +1 damage here or there. I tend to look for the key breakpoints which give an extra second, an extra strike of adrenaline, an extra point of energy etc, that is to say something like a 25% increase in the effectiveness of a skill rather than 5% increase.

Tiger Stance is bad - the fail to hit = loss of stance part, no 100% upkeep, and 14 strength? O_O

Torqual · Mar 06, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

and imo endure pain is crap.

This is an interesting opinion; does it relate to PvE or PvP?

In high-end PvE, particularly Vanquishing or Dungeons, it's the closest I would come to an 'essential' skill.

We're talking about a health skill that is instant activation, provides a huge boost, can be used while kiting, can't be interrupted, and doesn't reduce your armor level for 2 seconds. Are you suggesting that Heal Sig/Lion's Comfort are better, or suggesting not to bring a health skill at all? Again, in PvE or PvP?

Stormlord Alex · Mar 06, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

/facepalm
IAS iz gud. Discussion over, take it to some other thread so you don't drag this one off-topic.

OP - go Tiger Stance if you're not comfortable with Frenzy + Rush - it's only 8 seconds @ 10 Strength, but that should be long enough to break the hardest critters in a mob, the tough foes who need that extra damage output.
There's also Flurry with a zealous weapon, but losing 25% of the base damage on a weapon as hard-hitting as a Hammer isn't all that fun.

Personally, I'd just Frenzy and not push it when bosses are using Sliver Armour

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

We're talking about a health skill that is instant activation, provides a huge boost, can be used while kiting, can't be interrupted, and doesn't reduce your armor level for 2 seconds. Are you suggesting that Heal Sig/Lion's Comfort are better, or suggesting not to bring a health skill at all? Again, in PvE or PvP?

I don't bring one at all generally, least not Endure Pain (which doesn't even heal you

) If it comes up in a dungeon or vanquish where I find myself as a warr needing to heal; that's because the support is dead or drained and we're screwed anyway, and Endure Pain will only prolong the inevitable. I'd rather wipe, eat a few honeycombs, and get back to it full-strength.

And Lion's isn't all that bad by comparison - in your case, it might be better as it refreshes quicker and can provide a fairly substantial heal (~120 with high strength/leftovers in tactics, ~150 with Str/Tac split)... and it actually heals you too

Tyla · Mar 06, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

This is an interesting opinion; does it relate to PvE or PvP?

In high-end PvE, particularly Vanquishing or Dungeons, it's the closest I would come to an 'essential' skill.

We're talking about a health skill that is instant activation, provides a huge boost, can be used while kiting, can't be interrupted, and doesn't reduce your armor level for 2 seconds. Are you suggesting that Heal Sig/Lion's Comfort are better, or suggesting not to bring a health skill at all? Again, in PvE or PvP?

...It's bad for both.
I prefer good Monks, tbh...

ShadowsRequiem · Mar 06, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

This is an interesting opinion; does it relate to PvE or PvP?

In high-end PvE, particularly Vanquishing or Dungeons, it's the closest I would come to an 'essential' skill.

We're talking about a health skill that is instant activation, provides a huge boost, can be used while kiting, can't be interrupted, and doesn't reduce your armor level for 2 seconds. Are you suggesting that Heal Sig/Lion's Comfort are better, or suggesting not to bring a health skill at all? Again, in PvE or PvP?

Yeah theres a reason monks are in this game. Endure pain is just a garbage skill.

and @14 str Theres really no need to run it that high. I'll always have 14 in my weapon attributes, and tiger stance is pretty much meh.

Torqual · Mar 06, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

People need to read.

The OP requested a non-Nightfall skill to fit with his specific attack chain.

I never use Tiger Stance at all, so avoid taking cheap shots.

The E Pain discussion comes down to the type of player you are. Would you rather survive a spike or die, grief your monk and ask for res? Would you rather wipe in a mission or survive, escape and Rebirth your party? In an explorable area, do you prefer to survive and Rebirth your party or just keep wiping and eating consumables?

It's all down to taste. I am talking about using Endure Pain, specifically for high-end PvE, and specifically with H/H where the monks lack the discrimination to pre-prot. It's perfectly valid in this context, and can be pretty invaluable.

Also, dissing of E Pain is irrelevant to this topic which was about IAS.

Tyla · Mar 06, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

You still addressed Tiger Stance being used.
And to survive a spike? In that case, why don't Warriors use EPain in GvG eh?
Besides, AI should be going for the easiest to kill in your groups - and that can be avoided by a little thing I like to call "Save Yourselves!".

Stormlord Alex · Mar 06, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

The E Pain discussion comes down to the type of player you are. Would you rather survive a spike or die, grief your monk and ask for res? Would you rather wipe in a mission or survive, escape and Rebirth your party? In an explorable area, do you prefer to survive and Rebirth your party or just keep wiping and eating consumables?

Actually, I see Endure Pain, Healsig, Lion's etc. as indicators - if you find yourself taking and needing to use them in a PvE zone, then there's a flaw in your team build that you can iron out so battles go easier and you don't find the need to use Endure/Healsig.

Quote:

Also, dissing of E Pain is irrelevant to this topic which was about IAS.

agreed. On-topic now pl0x?

I Angra I · Mar 06, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

If you don't want to use Frenzy, Tiger Stance would probably be best.

Tyla · Mar 06, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Unfortunately, Jam Jar, you're only option if you can't use frenzy is...ugh...Tiger Stance, as people have said...I feel sorry for you...

Torqual · Mar 06, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

And to survive a spike? In that case, why don't Warriors use EPain in GvG eh?

HUMAN Prot monks.

Back to PvE (what I was talking about if you re-read....): While playing Hard Mode with heroes/hench, ask Lina or Kihm to pre prot you and see what they say.

I did not advocate use of EPain in conditions where human Monks were available. Can EPain discussion end now?

Tyla · Mar 06, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

HUMAN Prot monks.

Back to PvE (what I was talking about if you re-read....): While playing Hard Mode with heroes/hench, ask Lina or Kihm to pre prot you and see what they say.

I did not advocate use of EPain in conditions where human Monks were available. Can EPain discussion end now?

That's funny.
Last time I checked enemies in PvE aren't able to jump on vent, all switch to the target you need to spike and count down...

Back to PvE - hey look no spikes anyway.

Torqual · Mar 06, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Do you ever play Hard Mode with H/H? Just need to know, that's all.

Tyla · Mar 06, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

Do you ever play Hard Mode with H/H? Just need to know, that's all.

I practically ALWAYS play Hard Mode with H/H, and guess what? *Enfeebling Blood*...Do I win yet?
And since I'm a Ranger, I have access to easy BHA + Epedemic with no Energy Management problems...

Hard Mode is mostly a huge joke.

@Flem: The reason people get the best teammates possible is because they have a decent guild. I love my H/H more than most things when they aren't being stupid(er) than usual.

ShadowsRequiem · Mar 06, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

HUMAN Prot monks.

Back to PvE (what I was talking about if you re-read....): While playing Hard Mode with heroes/hench, ask Lina or Kihm to pre prot you and see what they say.

I did not advocate use of EPain in conditions where human Monks were available. Can EPain discussion end now?

Dunno if you've seen the thing called "heroes" that were added into this game. Now the game is easier because you can even Prot YOURSELF using your heroes.

Who woulda thought that

Flem · Mar 06, 2008, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

I practically ALWAYS play Hard Mode with H/H, and guess what? *Enfeebling Blood*...Do I win yet?
And since I'm a Ranger, I have access to easy BHA + Epedemic with no Energy Management problems...

Hard Mode is mostly a huge joke.

@Flem: The reason people get the best teammates possible is because they have a decent guild. I love my H/H more than most things when they aren't being stupid(er) than usual.

Most guilds are either completely PvP or completely PvE. I switch back and forth randomly, and it seems that I always choose to do the other at the wrong time. Either way, I've PuG'd and Henched about 80% of my GW time. I think it makes a stronger player to do PuG as well as controlled, tbh.

Tyla · Mar 06, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Shame, that most PuG's fail though.

Torqual · Mar 06, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

I practically ALWAYS play Hard Mode with H/H, and guess what? *Enfeebling Blood*...Do I win yet?
And since I'm a Ranger, I have access to easy BHA + Epedemic with no Energy Management problems...

Hard Mode is mostly a huge joke.

@Flem: The reason people get the best teammates possible is because they have a decent guild. I love my H/H more than most things when they aren't being stupid(er) than usual.

OK, so going on a little....presumably when YOU Vanquished the 34 areas of Elona (and you must have done) you never met mobs of Kournan Scribes that hit you with 4 meteors in a second? Or Roaring Ethers giving you triple Energy Surge? Triple Spear of Lighting from Level 28 Diamond Djinn while you're already on fire? They must all have TS!

Finally explain to me how "I'm a Ranger" wins an argument about in the Warrior forum about Warriors getting spiked in PvE. Are you suggesting I should use a bow like you, to avoid being spiked? Mind you I am bound to agree.... Endure Pain is a pretty useless skill on a Ranger; don't think I would use it either.

Torqual · Mar 06, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

Dunno if you've seen the thing called "heroes" that were added into this game. Now the game is easier because you can even Prot YOURSELF using your heroes.

Who woulda thought that

Respect to your Micro Skillz. I prefer Endure Pain.