Curse

Savio · Apr 10, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

He asked what is a better way to tank

No, he asked for help concerning why he wasn't getting into UW groups. Since the groups don't want an obsidian tank build, helping him improve the build is a pointless endeavor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I think bringing a source of blind or weakness to deal with the only physical you have to fight in the entire Underworld is a waste of a slot.

But wanding hurts

Dr Strangelove · Apr 10, 2008, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I think bringing a source of blind or weakness to deal with the only physical you have to fight in the entire Underworld is a waste of a slot. Prot Spirit > all.

Well, there's really only two things that should be a threat to a moderately competent group in UW - aataxes and the nasty horrid things in the chaos plains. A single slot for weakness on one character to counter the second-biggest threat in the whole area isn't a terrible idea, especially if you're bringing a trusty curses necro in the first place.

In the same idea, the mindblades are only in one area, and are the only thing that stacks any hexes that matter (the things in the bone pits don't matter). However, it's worth bringing all sorts of counters to them, because they're all sorts of nastiness. Coincidentally, an obsidian flesh tank is completely useless against them thanks to signet of humility.

Pyro maniac · Apr 10, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Obsidian Tanks are bad, PUG's are bad. Notice the pattern.

Some more info would be nice. If you don't feel like running the d-slasher a hammer warrior could be good as well:
[skill]Earth shaker[/skill][wiki]Whirlwind Attack[/wiki][skill]Crude Swing[/skill][wiki]Save yourselves[/wiki][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill][skill]Death pact Signet[/skill]

12+2 hammer, 12+1 strength+ 3 resto

Flem · Apr 10, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

No, he asked for help concerning why he wasn't getting into UW groups. Since the groups don't want an obsidian tank build, helping him improve the build is a pointless endeavor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizzle Wizzle

Hello, Ive been trying to find just your ordinary tank UW Build, I cant seem to figure out anything...

Um... No, he is looking for a good tank build. Thats what he asked for, that's what the responses should be based around.

Quit trying to tell people how to play the game. If he asked "Are tanks bad?" then you should say your part. That wasn't the case, so you guys derailing the thread is not needed.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 10, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Um... No, he is looking for a good tank build. Thats what he asked for, that's what the responses should be based around.

Quit trying to tell people how to play the game. If he asked "Are tanks bad?" then you should say your part. That wasn't the case, so you guys derailing the thread is not needed.

For the reasons I discussed above, both obby and stance tanks are mostly useless, even if you wanted to tank for some reason.

To recap:

Signet of humility in the four horsemen makes obby tanks useless. Since the four horsemen is the hardest area, and perhaps the only area where it would be useful to tank one side, it's a bad idea here.

Aataxes are the only physical attacker of note in UW. Is it really a good idea to spend a full character, 8 skills and 200 attributes on countering them when a single slot on another character with no change in attributes would be more effective?

It's several orders of magnitude more effective to put your defenses on your backline, especially in UW.

Flem · Apr 10, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

For the reasons I discussed above, both obby and stance tanks are mostly useless, even if you wanted to tank for some reason.

To recap:

Signet of humility in the four horsemen makes obby tanks useless. Since the four horsemen is the hardest area, and perhaps the only area where it would be useful to tank one side, it's a bad idea here.

Aataxes are the only physical attacker of note in UW. Is it really a good idea to spend a full character, 8 skills and 200 attributes on countering them when a single slot on another character with no change in attributes would be more effective?

It's several orders of magnitude more effective to put your defenses on your backline, especially in UW.

I know you enough to know that you hate tanks in almost all situations. It feels more like your just piggy backing on yet another thread to rant on why you think new players should play this game exactly like you do.

This is retarded to me.

Tyla · Apr 10, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

P.S. to Tyla: If your team knows what they are doing aggro wont break. They will be snared and/or dead before they have time to react.

Haha, well people make mistakes, and with Tank&Spank, mistakes like that aren't forgiving.

Builds should be able to combat the majority of situations, and not fall apart at one simple mistake.

And they should be able to try for things faster, a prot Monk protting the Warrior, Dervish or whatever > devoting your bar to selfish defense.

And yes, tanks ARE viable, but they're BAD and you want people to get out of this habit. Searching for help on forums ect. is usually the best option.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Apr 10, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

flem you sound like the idiots who think that warriors should be soaking up dmg and letting the backline do something.

also you misquoted me.

what I said was that a warrior should be more concentrated on killing and letting the monks worry about survival of party. Not sitting there and trying to 60000 dmg on the chin so that the SH nukers can do all the work.

Dmg warrior with good monks>any tank and spank group still.
you lost flem.
stop trying to make everyone wammos please.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 10, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

I know you enough to know that you hate tanks in almost all situations. It feels more like your just piggy backing on yet another thread to rant on why you think new players should play this game exactly like you do.

This is retarded to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

XBC · Apr 10, 2008, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Um... No, he is looking for a good tank build. Thats what he asked for, that's what the responses should be based around.

Quit trying to tell people how to play the game. If he asked "Are tanks bad?" then you should say your part. That wasn't the case, so you guys derailing the thread is not needed.

Why would members of this forum recommend builds that, though viable, are not as effective as others? As the first post shows, the poster appeared to have trouble getting into groups in the Underworld, thus he inquired about the best Warrior build for the Underworld, which he assumed was a tank. Since it is not, the best build was suggested.

IMO, read this page http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:W/..._Slash_Warrior about the DragonSpammer.

Flem · Apr 10, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Haha, well people make mistakes, and with Tank&Spank, mistakes like that aren't forgiving.

Builds should be able to combat the majority of situations, and not fall apart at one simple mistake.

And they should be able to try for things faster, a prot Monk protting the Warrior, Dervish or whatever > devoting your bar to selfish defense.

And yes, tanks ARE viable, but they're BAD and you want people to get out of this habit. Searching for help on forums ect. is usually the best option.

Bad is an opinion. I disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

flem you sound like the idiots who think that warriors should be soaking up dmg and letting the backline do something.

also you misquoted me.

what I said was that a warrior should be more concentrated on killing and letting the monks worry about survival of party. Not sitting there and trying to 60000 dmg on the chin so that the SH nukers can do all the work.

Dmg warrior with good monks>any tank and spank group still.
you lost flem.
stop trying to make everyone wammos please.

Wtf are you talking about? I lost? To who? When was this a competition? In case it's to complicated for you to understand Obby Tanks can't be War/Mo...

Quote:

Originally Posted by XBC

Why would members of this forum recommend builds that, though viable, are not as effective as others? As the first post shows, the poster appeared to have trouble getting into groups in the Underworld, thus he inquired about the best Warrior build for the Underworld, which he assumed was a tank. Since it is not, the best build was suggested.

IMO, read this page http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:W/..._Slash_Warrior about the DragonSpammer.

He asked for a better way to tank. He did not ask how you feel about tanking. This was just another example of low blow thread derailing, that will likely become deleted/locked like most threads on here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Please explain how this applies to me? If I remember right, it was you and your henchmen that have constantly gotten off topic just to call me names and gang up on me in previous threads.

I didn't call anyone a name (even tho someone I quoted called me and the majority of GW an idiot, yet you don't say anything to them because they are 'on your side'.), I just told you how I felt about your mentality. There are about 10 people on here that always stick together and always have the same view of trying to cattle herd new players in the same mindset/playstyle that you have.

Save that for another thread.

Tyla · Apr 10, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Bad is an opinion. I disagree.

If you disagree, present an argument against it.

Tank&Spank, is slow, not forgiving of mistakes. That's reason enough NOT to run it.
Please present your argument instead of just saying "Bad is an opinion. I disagree."

kel77 · Apr 10, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

I see you changed your name tyla.
Flem...tank and spank is slow, boring, and unforgiving, why would you possibly want to play that way?

Dr Strangelove · Apr 10, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Please explain how this applies to me? If I remember right, it was you and your henchmen that have constantly gotten off topic just to call me names and gang up on me in previous threads.

I didn't call anyone a name (even tho someone I quoted called me and the majority of GW an idiot, yet you don't say anything to them because they are 'on your side'.), I just told you how I felt about your mentality. There are about 10 people on here that always stick together and always have the same view of trying to cattle herd new players in the same mindset/playstyle that you have.

Save that for another thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ad Hominem

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

...If I remember right, it was you and your henchmen ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

I know you enough to know that you hate tanks ...
This is retarded to me.

If you're still having trouble, the point is that you're trying to discredit me as a person rather than addressing the points made in my post found here. Please note that all the posters here are not the same person. Someone else calling you an idiot is not the same as me calling you an idiot.

Also, I lol'd IRL when you called the regulars here my henchmen. Henchmen.... UNIIIIIITE!

Pyro maniac · Apr 10, 2008, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Why are you arguing with Flem, he has proved numerous time he is wrong

Dr Strangelove · Apr 10, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Why are you arguing with Flem, he has proved numerous time he is wrong

You're right. I'm committing argumentum ad infinitum

XBC · Apr 10, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

He asked for a better way to tank. He did not ask how you feel about tanking. This was just another example of low blow thread derailing, that will likely become deleted/locked like most threads on here.

In the original post, the word "tank" is mentioned exactly once. Where have you discerned that the thread starter is so incredibly into tanking? Everyone else here is merely trying to help this person get groups into the Underworld by revealing to the OP builds more effective thank tanks.

Crom The Pale · Apr 11, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

I think the original poster has fled from this forum, and may never return.

He asked for ideas that would get him into teams. We all gave him some ideas, some better than others.

We all know that if he is joining a PUG then its a very good bet he will never make it past the spider, asuming someone in the PUG doesn't take all the quests as soon as they complete Clear the Chamber.

Flem · Apr 11, 2008, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If you disagree, present an argument against it.

Tank&Spank, is slow, not forgiving of mistakes. That's reason enough NOT to run it.
Please present your argument instead of just saying "Bad is an opinion. I disagree."

Quit acting naive. You know good and well that I have explained my view on this 100 times. Tanking is not slow if you do it right, and it's no less forgiving then any other form of strategy, it just has a different angle you have to take and it often requires at least SOME planning.

If I didn't want to play with tactics, I go play competitive pong instead of GW or just play Ursan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

If you're still having trouble, the point is that you're trying to discredit me as a person rather than addressing the points made in my post found here. Please note that all the posters here are not the same person. Someone else calling you an idiot is not the same as me calling you an idiot.

Also, I lol'd IRL when you called the regulars here my henchmen. Henchmen.... UNIIIIIITE!

Well, I always have addressed all your points in at least a general sense. I did not know that I had to explain to you the entire UW run... here is a reference that you may find helpful: http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Four_Horsemen

Please note that you make it out as I purposely go out of my way to bring things off topic, when this is never the case. The only times I get off is when I'm lead there and I respond purely in my own defence (such as now). However, MANY other posters continue to low blow, derail, and insult me...but do you ever say anything to them about it? No. Because they are on your side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XBC

In the original post, the word "tank" is mentioned exactly once. Where have you discerned that the thread starter is so incredibly into tanking? Everyone else here is merely trying to help this person get groups into the Underworld by revealing to the OP builds more effective thank tanks.

I have already quoted the original post twice, I believe, and I really wish you would look over it again. It doesn't matter how many times the word tank is written. He never asks what he should do contrary to tanking. The just of the post is asking how to tank better and what skills would be best to tank with.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 11, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Stuff

[signet of humility] makes obsidian flesh non-functional. I've seen obby tanks work there in normal mode, but they have a tendency to explode in hard, and still occasionally do in normal if you're unlucky. Also, wiki is not the bible. Those articles are written by people like myself, and people have a tendency to be wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Please note that you make it out as I purposely go out of my way to bring things off topic, when this is never the case. The only times I get off is when I'm lead there and I respond purely in my own defence (such as now). However, MANY other posters continue to low blow, derail, and insult me...but do you ever say anything to them about it? No. Because they are on your side.

Everyone! Everyone! Listen up! People on the internet are making fun of Flem, and it's up to us to stop it. Can't you see you're hurting his feelings?