Curse

_Nihilist_ · Jan 08, 2009, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

It needs a nerf its overpowered nuff said

but it doesnt beat Sliver Armor x Ebon Battle Standard of Honor = 56 x 30 DPS

= 1680 Damage per Second

Ummmm.... NO.

Sliver Armor kills individually, so after your first kill, your DPS equation is reduced. 56*30 > 56*29 > 56*28 > etc. Once you get down to a few foes, that 56*30 has been reduced to 56*3... not so nice, now is it?

With Hundred Blades as it stands now, I kill ~20 Raptor Nestlings in ONE use of Whirlwind Attack. That takes ~1 second to trigger. Take into account that the other skills used can all be triggered within ~.5 seconds...

Dolyak Signet is, obviously, a Signet, so while Dolyak is casting, you can use BUH! (Shout - activates instantly, does not interrupt other skill usage), then do a quick 3-shot of Protector's Defense > Hundred Blades > Wary Stance since Protector's and Hundred are both skills, they activate instantly and do not interfere with one another or with Wary, since it's an instant-activate Stance. Once your Adrenaline for WW Attack is charged, which takes less than the 4 second duration of Wary, you hit WW Attack ONCE. DONE.

20 (Raptors) x 20 dmg (Hundred Blades Dmg) x 20 (number of times Hundred Blades triggers when using WW attack on 20 Raptors) = 8,000 damage, delivered in 1 second or less, and that's AFTER dmg reduction is applied running Sword @ 14. I can't count the number of -20's because they cover each other up... it's like a yellow line crawling up my screen, so I base my number of Raptors on the multiple of 5 shown by the Asuran bonus rather than try to average whether I killed 20, 22, 23 - you should get the idea, I'm lowering the damage output to a consistent number, as I always get a "20 enemies slain" message, every run, so I'm basing the calculation on that...

This doesn't include the 20*(43 - base minimum sword dmg + WW Attack bonus dmg @ lvl7 SS)*20(Raptors) (which would add another 860 damage before armor reduction) because most of the Raptors block the WW Attack, but Hundred Blades triggers anyways.

All of this happens, including skill activation time and Adrenaline charge in roughly ~3 seconds maximum.

Let's see Sliver Armor kill 20 Nestlings in 3 seconds, buffed by BUH!, Intensity, AND EVBSoH. It won't happen due to the way Sliver Armor deals it's damage.

So go ahead... redo your damage calculations... because only during your first kill, and first kill ONLY, is your damage 56*30 DPS.. and even then, that's only 1,680 dmg vs. the 8,000 dmg done by a single Whirlwind Attack buffed by Hundred Blades and BUH!... Now... divide all of that damage over the length of time it takes from when you first cast all your buffs through the last Raptor death, and you'll see that you are doing considerably less damage than 1,680 DPS, where even taking into effect ~3 sec of prep to attack time with the Hundred Blades build (WITHOUT adding the 860 dmg done by the Whirlwind Attack itself) you are looking at well over 2000 DPS from Hundred Blades.

Point: The Hundred Blades build, even IGNORING 860 dmg from the SINGLE ATTACK SKILL used to kill the Raptors, and taking into account approximately 3 seconds to set buffs, build Adrenaline, and then attack, does ~2,667 DPS, which is more than 1,000 DPS above your instant-cast, no setup time included DPS of Sliver Armor + Ebon Standard.

Sliver+Ebon is not higher DPS than Hundred Blades+WW in this case. In fact, since both skills work they way they do, in order for Sliver+Ebon to outclass 100 Blades+WW, it would have to be against ranged foes, as 100 Blades depends on foes to be adjacent, whereas Sliver depends on attacks and spells targeting you. In that case, Sliver would probably win.

In this case, Hundred Blades wins.

Lourens · Jan 08, 2009, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Ummmm.... NO.

Sliver Armor kills individually, so after your first kill, your DPS equation is reduced. 56*30 > 56*29 > 56*28 > etc. Once you get down to a few foes, that 56*30 has been reduced to 56*3... not so nice, now is it?

With Hundred Blades as it stands now, I kill ~20 Raptor Nestlings in ONE use of Whirlwind Attack. That takes ~1 second to trigger. Take into account that the other skills used can all be triggered within ~.5 seconds...

Dolyak Signet is, obviously, a Signet, so while Dolyak is casting, you can use BUH! (Shout - activates instantly, does not interrupt other skill usage), then do a quick 3-shot of Protector's Defense > Hundred Blades > Wary Stance since Protector's and Hundred are both skills, they activate instantly and do not interfere with one another or with Wary, since it's an instant-activate Stance. Once your Adrenaline for WW Attack is charged, which takes less than the 4 second duration of Wary, you hit WW Attack ONCE. DONE.

20 (Raptors) x 20 dmg (Hundred Blades Dmg) x 20 (number of times Hundred Blades triggers when using WW attack on 20 Raptors) = 8,000 damage, delivered in 1 second or less, and that's AFTER dmg reduction is applied running Sword @ 14. I can't count the number of -20's because they cover each other up... it's like a yellow line crawling up my screen, so I base my number of Raptors on the multiple of 5 shown by the Asuran bonus rather than try to average whether I killed 20, 22, 23 - you should get the idea, I'm lowering the damage output to a consistent number, as I always get a "20 enemies slain" message, every run, so I'm basing the calculation on that...

This doesn't include the 20*(43 - base minimum sword dmg + WW Attack bonus dmg @ lvl7 SS)*20(Raptors) (which would add another 860 damage before armor reduction) because most of the Raptors block the WW Attack, but Hundred Blades triggers anyways.

All of this happens, including skill activation time and Adrenaline charge in roughly ~3 seconds maximum.

Let's see Sliver Armor kill 20 Nestlings in 3 seconds, buffed by BUH!, Intensity, AND EVBSoH. It won't happen due to the way Sliver Armor deals it's damage.

So go ahead... redo your damage calculations... because only during your first kill, and first kill ONLY, is your damage 56*30 DPS.. and even then, that's only 1,680 dmg vs. the 8,000 dmg done by a single Whirlwind Attack buffed by Hundred Blades and BUH!... Now... divide all of that damage over the length of time it takes from when you first cast all your buffs through the last Raptor death, and you'll see that you are doing considerably less damage than 1,680 DPS, where even taking into effect ~3 sec of prep to attack time with the Hundred Blades build (WITHOUT adding the 860 dmg done by the Whirlwind Attack itself) you are looking at well over 2000 DPS from Hundred Blades.

Point: The Hundred Blades build, even IGNORING 860 dmg from the SINGLE ATTACK SKILL used to kill the Raptors, and taking into account approximately 3 seconds to set buffs, build Adrenaline, and then attack, does ~2,667 DPS, which is more than 1,000 DPS above your instant-cast, no setup time included DPS of Sliver Armor + Ebon Standard.

Sliver+Ebon is not higher DPS than Hundred Blades+WW in this case. In fact, since both skills work they way they do, in order for Sliver+Ebon to outclass 100 Blades+WW, it would have to be against ranged foes, as 100 Blades depends on foes to be adjacent, whereas Sliver depends on attacks and spells targeting you. In that case, Sliver would probably win.

In this case, Hundred Blades wins.

Monster will most likely use [Signet of Midnight][Blinding Surge][Blurred Vision][Reckless Haste] etc on you and then is your dps 0 while with sliver it doesnt matter and sliver doesnt got downtime [glyph of renewal] wtf pwned

masterjer1 · Jan 08, 2009, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

Monster will most likely use [Signet of Midnight][Blinding Surge][Blurred Vision][Reckless Haste] etc on you and then is your dps 0 while with sliver it doesnt matter and sliver doesnt got downtime [glyph of renewal] wtf pwned

Again, 100 Blades has found its niche in farming. Any place a warrior farms is most likely not going to have monsters with those skills mentioned above. Unless someone comes up with a caster warrior build that uses 100 Blades that is viable, which is very unlikely, warriors shouldn't have to worry about those skills.

Picuso · Jan 08, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

Monster will most likely use [Signet of Midnight][Blinding Surge][Blurred Vision][Reckless Haste] etc on you and then is your dps 0 while with sliver it doesnt matter and sliver doesnt got downtime [glyph of renewal] wtf pwned

Hundred Blades triggers on attack, no on hit...

Even if you are blinded, if you have enough adrenaline to use Wirlwhind, BOOM!.

P.S: I love to hit monks who use any block stance and guardian with Hundred Blades

Napalm Flame · Jan 08, 2009, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by masterjer1

Another nerf? Are you kidding? If anything they made 100 Blades more useable. I never had a real reason to use it before due to better skills out there. If now it finds a niche in farming builds, then so be it. Give a warrior an inch, and the world cries. 100 Blades will not add to the falling price of ectos no more than any other elite that already has. Yes you can use it to mass aggro smites for a fast kill, but the player will need some skill in doing so. Not as easy as say, running a permasin in UW.

Who cares about ectos, they're practically worthless now anyway compared to what they were before.

_Nihilist_ · Jan 09, 2009, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Lourens, don't get into a pissing contest with me because you didn't read my post all the way through, or at least, missed some very important statements that I made within that post:

Point 1: I was talking about Raptor Nestling farming only, and I quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

I kill ~20 Raptor Nestlings

Point 2: I challenged Sliver + Standard only while dealing with the Raptor Nestlings, and I quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Let's see Sliver Armor kill 20 Nestlings in 3 seconds...

Point 3: Your argument, in the context of this Thread, has no validity whatsoever, here's quoting for you, kid:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

Monster will most likely use [Signet of Midnight][Blinding Surge][Blurred Vision][Reckless Haste] etc on you and then is your dps 0 while with sliver it doesnt matter and sliver doesnt got downtime [Glyph of Renewal] wtf pwned

Counter: I already explained that my damage calculation didn't include any damage from Whirlwind Attack because most of the Raptor Nestlings block Whirlwind Attack; as I stated, and masterjer1 and Picuso stated afterwards, HUNDRED BLADES TRIGGERS ON ATTACK, NOT ON HIT, I can miss all day and Hundred Blades will still deal its damage. Not to mention, Raptor Nestlings don't use any of those skills, so you countered my argument for Hundred Blades being better than Sliver Armor in terms of DPS on a Raptor Nestling run only by what? Going off on an unrelated tangent. That fails to do anything productive, it certainly didn't add to your credibility in the matter. One more thing, if you are using [[Glyph of Renewal] to keep Sliver Armor going, how exactly are you surviving, or preventing interrupts? I'm pretty sure that [[Air of Superiority] is the A/E or E/A failsafe to maintaining Sliver, as well as the fact that [[Shadow Form (PvE)] is the standard Elite carried. If I am mistaken, remember that the only skills you posted were [[Sliver Armor] and Standard, you never said what the other 6 skills were.

Point 4: I never said that Hundred Blades would beat out Sliver Armor each and every single time. Another quote from my post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Sliver+Ebon is not higher DPS than Hundred Blades+WW in this case. In fact, since both skills work they way they do, in order for Sliver+Ebon to outclass 100 Blades+WW, it would have to be against ranged foes, as 100 Blades depends on foes to be adjacent, whereas Sliver depends on attacks and spells targeting you. In that case, Sliver would probably win.

In this case, Hundred Blades wins.

I did NOT sing the praises of Hundred Blades in EVERY SITUATION as being uber-pwnage. I simply stated my reasons, which are tested, for why Hundred Blades outputs higher DPS on a Raptor Nestling Farm than Sliver + Standard. I then gave you at least one situation where Sliver + Standard would have higher DPS output than Hundred Blades, but apparently, you shot your counter-argument off prematurely, or you just decided to ignore the fact that my statements pertain to the Raptor Nestling farm only when it comes to Hundred Blades outperforming Sliver + Standard in DPS output.

I'm tired of dealing with your puerile attitude when it comes down to the fact that you posted incorrect information, and can't handle it when someone is able to disprove you. If you want to respond to this, then provide the same type of tested information that I gave for Hundred Blades + Whirlwind Attack's DPS. Also, remember that I provided a 3-second window from the time I began using skills until the last Nestling was dead. Here's a final quote that tells you what to do if you want to respond without looking like a complete jackass/idiot:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

So go ahead... redo your damage calculations... because only during your first kill, and first kill ONLY, is your damage 56*30 DPS... ...Now... divide all of that damage over the length of time it takes from when you first cast all your buffs through the last Raptor death...

Either do it right, or don't argue evidence you cannot disprove.

Paul Dawg · Jan 10, 2009, 10:54 AM // 10:54

We're doing a lot of talking about farming, but I thought of something else: I wonder whether another point of the change was to erode even further the ability of permasins to solo FoW. Now that Hundred Blades is a SKILL, not an ATTACK, it will penetrate Shadow Form. So Shadow Warriors are now death to a permasin (in the same way that Mindflay Spectres in UW kill permasins with Signet of Disenchantment).

BBG345 · Jan 10, 2009, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

It needs a nerf its overpowered nuff said

but it doesnt beat Sliver Armor x Ebon Battle Standard of Honor = 56 x 30 DPS = 1680 Damage per Second

Dude....
1680 a sec...
You might as well fricken take on the embassy of Korea.

Paul Dawg · Jan 10, 2009, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Yeah, I don't understand this either. If someone is making the [Hundred Blades][Mark of Pain] combination work in Hard Mode, I'd kinda like to see a screen shot or two...cuz the OP's build fails. You run in naked and are mangled before you have a chance to get rolling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

You show one build, but against the Raptors, you aren't using the same build. You have Soldier's Defense on the bar. What spread in Tactics if you are already using a 12/10/8 split for Sword/Curses/Strength? Also, it's on NM, since the Nestlings are lvl 15.

How are you aggro'ing and not getting destroyed before using Whirlwind, with no spec in Tactics for blocking?

masterjer1 · Jan 14, 2009, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

We're doing a lot of talking about farming, but I thought of something else: I wonder whether another point of the change was to erode even further the ability of permasins to solo FoW. Now that Hundred Blades is a SKILL, not an ATTACK, it will penetrate Shadow Form. So Shadow Warriors are now death to a permasin (in the same way that Mindflay Spectres in UW kill permasins with Signet of Disenchantment).

Mindflay Spectres were removed from the game when they did the last update for [shadow form], hence they are no longer a problem.

Siirius Black · Jan 14, 2009, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by masterjer1

Mindflay Spectres were removed from the game when they did the last update for [shadow form], hence they are no longer a problem.

<Sarcasm>I totally missed that note on the update</Sarcasm>,

If you are being sarcastic in your comment you should indicate that. People might get confused.

masterjer1 · Jan 15, 2009, 03:43 AM // 03:43

^^ No sarcasm intended, just helping to pass on the info.

Paul Dawg · Jan 23, 2009, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Well, he's right that Mindflay Spectres have been removed from the game, so I don't think he was being sarcastic.

I mentioned them as an EXAMPLE of ways that the GW designers have tried to make life more difficult for permasins, and was wondering whether the change to [hundred blades] had a similar motivation. But who knows?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siirius Black

<Sarcasm>I totally missed that note on the update</Sarcasm>,

If you are being sarcastic in your comment you should indicate that. People might get confused.