Curse

Picuso · Dec 21, 2008, 11:43 AM // 11:43

[Warrior's Endurance] is not a stance anymore.

It was changed long ago. So you can get WE and IAS.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Endurance

Maneo Ranae · Dec 21, 2008, 11:59 AM // 11:59

... I stand corrected lols.

Karuro · Dec 21, 2008, 01:20 PM // 13:20

It worked well enough during the Charr attack in the wintersday quest.

masterjer1 · Dec 22, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

You show one build, but against the Raptors, you aren't using the same build. You have Soldier's Defense on the bar. What spread in Tactics if you are already using a 12/10/8 split for Sword/Curses/Strength? Also, it's on NM, since the Nestlings are lvl 15.

How are you aggro'ing and not getting destroyed before using Whirlwind, with no spec in Tactics for blocking?

No more Curses! Straight up warrior with BuH in HM, as shown in OP slaying Raptor Nestlings. I do this in HM rounding up the 2 patrols and gathering them up on a hill, until last night. I was getting 20-23 kills, but now I aggro all (even boss) and get 32-33 kills and pick up drops. A farming gimmick maybe, but I'll enjoy it while I can during Wintersday.

_Nihilist_ · Dec 22, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Yes, mother.

Rekoff will still pwn your face (Twisting Jaws, FTL), but Endure Pain = picking up drops.

I don't care if it's a gimmick. It commits Nestling Genocide for Asuran rep, Holiday items, and golds, and Smite Genocide for Ecto. Me likey.

kanuks · Dec 23, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

In my opinion:
Hundred Blades
Sword attack
5 energy
6 recharge
Strike target foe twice, each hit strikes for +5...17...20. Also strikes foes adjacent to target foe twice.

Adds a nice damage boost but only to your target, it means it has more use versus one target but is the same versus loads of enemies in which situation it was fine anyway.

~A Leprechuan~

Would be quite overpowered IMO. 2 strikes is +40 damage so the bonus would be bigger than power attack but it would recharge adrenaline very fast as well...

_Nihilist_ · Dec 23, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

If anyone is wondering, the Raptor Farm shown in the OP can be done in ~1 min, maybe a bit less. Testing this morning I did 43 runs in an hour, which includes zoning, ID'ing/salvaging drops, selling to merch, and putting things in Xunlai.

The run for me is the ~20 Nestlings on the left side of the cave, no aggro'ing Rekoff Broodmother. You can't kill her, and if you move too deep into her side of the cave, she'll kill you before you've gathered all your aggro - just not worth it imho.

In HM that's 2 Asura rep/kill, so 40 rep/run. 43x40= 1,720 Asura rep in an hour. I averaged around 40x each Wintersday drop, excluding Frosty and Mischievious Tonics (only a few of them) at least 5 Assassin Tomes, and between 5 and 30 gold item drops as well. This is during an hour of farming this morning, last night, and the night before.

Watching ~20 Raptor Nestlings drop at once makes my Warrior get warm fuzzies.

A Leprechaun · Dec 24, 2008, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanuks

Would be quite overpowered IMO. 2 strikes is +40 damage so the bonus would be bigger than power attack but it would recharge adrenaline very fast as well...

Um, power attack does +42 damage at 16 strength and my version of Hundred Blades would do two packets of +21 at 16 swordsmanship which equals, yes you guessed it, +42. They would scale the same.
You say it would be overpowered? It would strike one foe for +42 (at 16 swordsmanship) whereas Triple Chop strikes every foe around you for +42 damage (at 16 axe mastery).
Hundred Blades was already good in its previous form if you had lots of foes in front of you but if you were only facing one foe it was a waste, I'm just trying to rectify that but still keep the skills original charm.

~A Leprechaun~

_Nihilist_ · Dec 24, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

Hundred Blades
Sword attack
5 energy
6 recharge
Strike target foe twice, each hit strikes for +5...17...20. Also strikes foes adjacent to target foe twice.

Leprechaun, I think kanuks misread your proposal, though at first, I thought the same as him/her, but then I rechecked your post. If I'm reading correctly, only the target receives the bonus damage on the hits (underlined in your quote), while all foes adjacent to target receive 2 normal sword attacks, unbuffed (bolded in your quote) by any kind of extra damage bonus. At first glance, it looks like the bonus damage could be an implied add on the attacks to foes adjacent to the target, but then again, it doesn't explicitly make that statement as concrete fact.

Am I interpreting your post correctly? If so, it still needs a rework imo. Why? Because adding [[Power Attack]'s bonus damage to the target alone is not enough on [[Hundred Blades].

[ EDIT ]

Old Hundred Blades icon/description:
[Hundred Blades]

So... if it were going to be reworked differently than this latest update, how could it be balanced so that it wasn't only a Farming Gimmick, which is basically what it has become?

It depends on what it is going to do, and what buffs/debuffs it receives as to how this skill could be reworked/rebalanced/reverted/updated.

Basing it off of the old 100b, which is what the general consensus in this Thread (who want it to be general use > Farming use) shows, we need to check each aspect of the old 100b to see what/how it could be changed to make it more useful in general play for both PvE and PvP.

Energy Cost: 5e
This isn't a problem. Unless given insane buffs, 5e is the standard cost for a Warrior Attack Skill, if it's energy-based. The two exceptions, which can be justified by their effects are:

[[Renewing Smash] - 10e - Hammer Attack that deals bonus dmg and recharges all of your Stances
[[Hamstring] - 10e - Sword Attack that Cripples you target

Both of these skills have very powerful utility, hence the need for a higher energy cost. Either of these two effects are useful to a Warrior to such a high degree that they have to be limited. Higher cost is the answer.

Should 100b have a higher cost than 5e? I don't think so. As long as it doesn't do insane damage, or have ungodly utility, or have next to no recharge time, no.

Effect: Strikes Target and adjacent foes twice

Ok - here is where we can either follow previous versions, make simple changes to the current version, or radically rework this skill. The effect is what has to be balanced. Effect vs. Energy Cost, Effect vs. Skill Duration, Effect vs. Skill Recharge, etc.

First and foremost, Warriors already have access to [[Triple Chop], from Axe Mastery. Axe mastery also includes [[Cyclone Axe]. Warriors don't need more AoE, necessarily. If a Sword Warrior wants AoE (which is going to be more for PvE anyways), they have the option to run [[Whirlwind Attack], a Sunspear PvE only skill. For the sake of diversity, we won't make 100b a Sword version of Triple Chop.

Secondly, the old version of 100b didn't scale with the Swordsmanship attribute like most skills scale. The effect was the same, whether you had 0 or 16 in Swordsmanship. Since there was no bonus damage, this meant that in order for you to do DAMAGE with 100b you needed to have invested in Swordsmanship, but that was armor-reduced damage, not bonus damage. If we give it bonus damage though, it becomes too much like Triple Chop...

So why not make the number of extra attacks scale with the Swordsmanship attribute? This makes sense, at least it does to me. If you don't want armor-ignoring bonus damage, like Triple Chop, and you don't want a Raptor-Nuke Farming Gimmick, why not increase the number of attacks with higher investment in Swordsmanship?

The damage will be reduced by armor, but attacking doesn't just deal damage... for a Warrior, it builds Adrenaline, which fuels attacks, stances, and other skills. That is what the old 100b did... it allowed you to get double Adrenaline from a mob, basically (and energy, if using a Zealous Sword).

With so many ways to make a Warrior miss attacks (Blind, hexes that punish a person when they attack, blocking enchants/stances), this would be a prime way to meld the skill into something needed, while maintaining differences in the different Weapon Masteries, and balance issues.

New Hundred Blades rework:

Cost: 5e
Recharge: 6 seconds
Effect: This attack hits target and adjacent foes. For every 3..2..1 adjacent foes, the Warrior makes another attack on target and adjacent foes.

How is this balanced? First off, lower investment in Swordsmanship means less hits. Second, there is no bonus damage, but the number of attacks increases (the attacks are reduced by armor, but they give Adrenaline, and would trigger or have a chance to trigger weapon mods like Zealous, Vampiric, Furious, or Sundering). Third, in PvP you are rarely going to have tons of opponents packed in like that, but even being able to land a few bonus hits will have an advantage while in PvE, OP PvE only skills are used all the time (this rarely justifies a skill imbalance, but it's the truth).

Granted, my numbers are probably not the best that they could be. It's just an idea.

I could care less at this point, because my Warrior is farming Asura rep like he's looking for sand in the Sahara. Just my 2g on what would need to be thought about for balance, and an example suggestion along the same vein (as crappy as it may be).

A Leprechaun · Dec 25, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Yes, you got my idea right Tyrael, but I also decreased the recharge by 2 seconds. Although it's not just adding power attack damge to it, it's adding it in two packets which would make the skill more usable in PvP (I think, don't PvP much).
Your idea would not be applicable especially in PvP. The fact that you can stack lots of buff on yourself and potentially do infinite hits on your target is not balanced. Imo more than 2 hits on one foe from one attack would be overpowered.

~A Leprechaun~

_Nihilist_ · Dec 26, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

Your idea would not be applicable especially in PvP. The fact that you can stack lots of buff on yourself and potentially do infinite hits on your target is not balanced. Imo more than 2 hits on one foe from one attack would be overpowered.

How so? "Potentially do infinite hits on your target" doesn't even come close to the limitations of this skill, A Leprechaun.

My suggestion was:
5e cost
6 second recharge
Scale the number of attacks with Swordsmanship.

I used "For every 3..2..1 adjacent foes, the Warrior makes another attack on target and adjacent foes" more of a filler, but let's look at this:

Even getting 1 extra attack per adjacent foe, in most situations, unless you are farming, you aren't going to have more than 1 or 2 adjacent foes at a time. That means 2 or 3 attacks, all reduced by armor, with no bonus damage. Average Sword damage is ~17 before armor/penetration/reduction calculations. So no, it honestly isn't overpowered. It still works well for farming (so does [[Triple Chop], but I don't hear complaints that it's imbalanced), and it does very well the more foes are near you in whatever situation. But working well hardly means "possible infinite number of attacks". If you have that many enemies adjacent to your target, you are about to take a dirt nap.

A Leprechaun · Dec 26, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Potentially infinite hits, potentially. You stack it with some buffs like Conjure Flame and Strength and Honor even with just 3 adjacent foes you strike your target 4 times, thats insane damage. Yes, in PvE it doesn't really matter but in PvP it would be somewhat broken imo.
With my idea I was trying to keep the original concept/charm of the skill while buffng it to make it more effective against a single target.

~A Leprechaun~

_Nihilist_ · Dec 29, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Meh. A single snare takes care of the super-buffed Warrior by ensuring he never reaches his target/s. And again, unless you are facing a Smiteball team (gimmick), I've never seen PvP teams all bunch together. AoE is nasty, no matter which way you slice it. At most, you'd get 2, maybe 3 attacks on foe/adjacent with 14 Swordsmanship. You aren't going to catch more than 2 (on a rare possibility 3) people adjacent to one another at any given time in PvP. Maybe holding in Halls 1v1v1, but other than that, not likely.

Reflect · Dec 30, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

anyone is wondering, the Raptor Farm shown in the OP can be done in ~1 min, maybe a bit less.
================================================== ===============
epic fail
i need 30 sec to aggro all the rapties and kill them with gladi defence+wirlwind+cyclone, adding Air of Superiority makes you be in Gladi defence 24/7.

..
in PvE i still run Tripple Chop + Splinter weapon for the real dmg, or Dragon Slash + Save Yourselves, combined with 6 Smiter monks for the lulz

_Nihilist_ · Dec 31, 2008, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Once I got the run down (after 2 or 3 tries), I've consistently gotten a "0 minutes in this map" when I /age after killing the Nestlings and picking up drops/resigning.

masterjer1 · Jan 02, 2009, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Use Sprint on your way to shrine for hunt bonus. By the time you get to the cave entrance, Sprint will be recharged for an aggroing run. The rest is 12345, pickup and resign. Fast and easy unless you rubberband.

_Nihilist_ · Jan 02, 2009, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by masterjer1

The rest is 234567, pickup and resign.

^
Fixed it for you, Grom. lol

Napalm Flame · Jan 06, 2009, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Hb is oh so exploitable!

Lourens · Jan 07, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

It needs a nerf its overpowered nuff said

but it doesnt beat Sliver Armor x Ebon Battle Standard of Honor = 56 x 30 DPS

= 1680 Damage per Second

masterjer1 · Jan 07, 2009, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Another nerf? Are you kidding? If anything they made 100 Blades more useable. I never had a real reason to use it before due to better skills out there. If now it finds a niche in farming builds, then so be it. Give a warrior an inch, and the world cries. 100 Blades will not add to the falling price of ectos no more than any other elite that already has. Yes you can use it to mass aggro smites for a fast kill, but the player will need some skill in doing so. Not as easy as say, running a permasin in UW.