Curse

Cobalic · Feb 13, 2009, 06:18 PM // 18:18

I still don't get it. You pointed out whats wrong with my build again, but you haven't shown me what you think is a good idea. Ok, so drop leech sig and power drain for power spike... what fills the empty spot?

To improve on my own build, I think tiger stance (is that the name? the ranger skill that has you attack faster until you miss) might be better instead of flail. It's an energy skill, but that may actually be better - I find it's hard to hit flail accurately when you're spamming hammer bash. If you hit it, you need one more strike to hammer bash, and a lot of the time that ruins the whole chain kd effect. Then of course if you're w/r you can bring dshot, but you can't bring leech or power drain.

I'll admit, power drain doesn't get used too often on this build. But I don't think it's useless. with a 1/4 second casting time, if you want to interupt WoH (3/4), you need a 1/2 second reaction time. This is made harder because you can't be sure the monk will cast WoH, think about it: you have 1/2 second to realize its a 3/4 second skill, and hit 7. Possible, but you need to be on crack to hit it every time. With two interrupts you can afford to anticipate spells, and so what if you waste it. No big loss.

I have to say, this build is great for backlining in RA/TA. I've had mesmers/eles get kd'd literally 7-10 times in a row. It's especially great when they try to run as soon as they get up, b/c they get knocked down with enraged again.

It's also really convenient to switch targets with it. The combo is very short, and theres really no significant wait for it to recharge. And so what if you're not doing as much damage as humanly possible... swinging for 100 a hit is still pretty good pressure.

But I'm still waiting for a better build from the rank 9 dude (you just have to show the world that picture, dont you

)

_Nihilist_ · Feb 14, 2009, 01:54 AM // 01:54

First off Cobalic, why are the 2 Mesmer 'rupts not working? Because you're dropping them in your KD chain. No caster in their right mind would be casting while a Hammer Warr is locked onto them unless they have been prot'ed or are in a blocking stance. If you insist on using the Mesmer skills, use them as utility outside of your KD chain.

As far as the suggestion to go /P for [[Wild Throw], it might not be the best way, but it certainly does have its advantages. First off, as a Warrior, you are probably (and should be, if you aren't already) carrying a Spear + Shield Defense/Ranged Adrenaline gain weapon-set, so you don't have to worry about getting a Spear. Second, unlike the Warrior skill [[Wild Blow], you won't lose all your Adrenaline when you use it; sure, that Hammer crit is sexy, but losing all your ADR is not.

blue.rellik merely made a solid suggestion due to the discussion at hand. Countering his argument by saying you prefer not to weapon-swap only reveals that you are too lazy to weapon-swap, not that his suggestion is inefficient. Even a Warrior has to weapon-swap, if not only to hit different targets with weapons better suited to taking them down.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Feb 15, 2009, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

As far as the suggestion to go /P for [[Wild Throw], it might not be the best way, but it certainly does have its advantages. First off, as a Warrior, you are probably (and should be, if you aren't already) carrying a Spear + Shield Defense/Ranged Adrenaline gain weapon-set, so you don't have to worry about getting a Spear. Second, unlike the Warrior skill [[Wild Blow], you won't lose all your Adrenaline when you use it; sure, that Hammer crit is sexy, but losing all your ADR is not.

blue.rellik merely made a solid suggestion due to the discussion at hand. Countering his argument by saying you prefer not to weapon-swap only reveals that you are too lazy to weapon-swap, not that his suggestion is inefficient. Even a Warrior has to weapon-swap, if not only to hit different targets with weapons better suited to taking them down.

His suggestion is inefficient. As I said earlier it is far more effective to simply change targets for the 5 seconds the stance is active or to trick the monk into using it prematurely.

Taking a counter to something that lasts 5 seconds and has a 15-20 second recharge AND can only be used on yourself is pretty stupid. A lot of people think the only way to kill a monk is to train it for as long as possible, those people are terrible at playing Warriors. Pressuring any targets in the team causes the Monk to burn energy. If you are finding stances to be a really massive problem (which they rarely are as RA Monks only run 1 of them usually) then go pressure other targets, burn the monks energy, force him to burn his stance and then 3..2..1..PEW PEW. Monk is dead.

90% of my time spent in RA is on a Warrior. Very, very rarely do I find stances to be a big problem. The only time I find them to be an annoyance is if 3 out of 4 members of the team have them. This is extremely rare. IF this started become the norm only then would I consider taking a counter.

_Nihilist_ · Feb 16, 2009, 12:59 AM // 00:59

It is less efficient than swapping targets, yes, but if stance removal is necessary (as you explained - 3/4 members running stances) it would be fine. I was trying to make the point that not wanting to weapon-swap is a sign of laziness on the player's part, not inefficiency of the skill suggested. No matter what skills you carry, you should be weapon-swapping to get the most out of your weapons/shields.

I agree with you that most RA Warriors think that the only way to kill a Monk is to monkstomp and/or train the Monk forever. It's enough to make my head hurt.

blue.rellik · Feb 16, 2009, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Since my original post was deleted (most likely because it was 'flame-bait), I'll resay it again in much 'nicer' terms

eddie the reaper, if you had read my post you would have noticed it was in response to someone saying to bring wild blow on a hammer bar. I found this suggestion most distressing so I instead said that I'd rather bring wild throw than wild blow

I'm guessing you probably realize that in the context of bringing a stance remover on a hammer warrior, I'd rather pick throw over blow

Is that nice enough or will this post get deleted as well?

Lusciious · Feb 16, 2009, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcyFiftyFive

[build prof=w/r hammer=12+1+1 str=12+1][Distracting Shot][Devastating Hammer][Flail][Crushing Blow][Hammer Bash][Bulls Strike][Enraging Charge][Resurrection Signet][/build]

This is more like it.

i'd run that than the normal dev bar with distracting strike only because its interupt skill has a +20 sec effect AND a shorter recharge with the same energy cost.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Feb 16, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Since my original post was deleted (most likely because it was 'flame-bait), I'll resay it again in much 'nicer' terms

eddie the reaper, if you had read my post you would have noticed it was in response to someone saying to bring wild blow on a hammer bar. I found this suggestion most distressing so I instead said that I'd rather bring wild throw than wild blow

I'm guessing you probably realize that in the context of bringing a stance remover on a hammer warrior, I'd rather pick throw over blow

Is that nice enough or will this post get deleted as well?

I had already read your original post. I do agree that, if you're not using your secondary, then yes, Wild Throw is definately a better choice. However the correct response to someone saying bring "Wild Blow" should have been, no, just swap targets.

There is no point going into hypothetical situations where everyone is running stances, the fact is, the majority of the time stances are not a big deal if you know how to play so the correct suggestion is to not bring anti-stance skills. Bringing hypothetical situations into it just confuses those people who are not so good and are looking for advice.

It does not matter that you were merely offering a better skill to do the job, if a Wammo came on here and was running mending you wouldn't turn round and say to him "Hey, mending is bad, take Heeling Breeze instead!" I realise this is taking examples to the extreme but doing so often emphasises how rediculous it is to do something like that.

blue.rellik · Feb 17, 2009, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

I had already read your original post. I do agree that, if you're not using your secondary, then yes, Wild Throw is definately a better choice. However the correct response to someone saying bring "Wild Blow" should have been, no, just swap targets.

As I said, I was talking about in the context of having to bring a stance remover. Looking at most of the builds in this thread, they largely look like RA builds where stances are relatively common

Quote:

There is no point going into hypothetical situations where everyone is running stances, the fact is, the majority of the time stances are not a big deal if you know how to play so the correct suggestion is to not bring anti-stance skills. Bringing hypothetical situations into it just confuses those people who are not so good and are looking for advice.

That's good but I wasn't talking to someone asking 'Should I bring a stance remover on a hammer bar?' but someone that said 'I bring wild blow on a hammer bar'

That's very different

Quote:

It does not matter that you were merely offering a better skill to do the job, if a Wammo came on here and was running mending you wouldn't turn round and say to him "Hey, mending is bad, take Heeling Breeze instead!" I realise this is taking examples to the extreme but doing so often emphasises how rediculous it is to do something like that.

Oh come on, are you seriously going to compare what I said with telling a wammo to bring hb?

_Nihilist_ · Feb 17, 2009, 01:46 AM // 01:46

I believe that eddie was trying to give an example, which he did state was out in left field, if only to show that someone could possibly get sidetracked from the question put forth in the OP, even if the out in left field example was a better option at a tangent question that had been brought up. As such, no blue.rellik, eddie was not suggesting that the Wild Blow < Wild Throw was in the same ballpark as Mending < Healing Breeze.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed thus far, but keep in mind, if posts don't pertain to the OP, they are derailing the discussion. Let's get this discussion back on track, or else a threadlock will be incoming.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Feb 17, 2009, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

As I said, I was talking about in the context of having to bring a stance remover. Looking at most of the builds in this thread, they largely look like RA builds where stances are relatively common

Which as I said is a hypothetical situation. There is no need to talk about it. If you read my post properly you'll see that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

That's good but I wasn't talking to someone asking 'Should I bring a stance remover on a hammer bar?' but someone that said 'I bring wild blow on a hammer bar'

And as I already said, you should have replied "No, don't bring Wild Blow, you don't need to take any stance removal, it's a waste of a skill slot, just change targets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Oh come on, are you seriously going to compare what I said with telling a wammo to bring hb?

I was making an exaggerated example to show you just how rediculous your idea was. The point is, bringing any sort of healing on a Warrior is counter-productive, just like bringing an stance removal is counter-productive.

I really do feel like i'm going round in circles with you. I do also think that yes, this is a bit off-topic.

zling · Feb 18, 2009, 01:16 AM // 01:16

as eddie is trying to tell you, the best solution is NOT to bring sub par skills to counter certain situations but instead use proper skills and change your sub par tactics to counter these same situations.
example is sub par tactics: not weapon switching, monk bashing, interrupt spamming, etc
what you should do instead: weapon switch, pressure monk's teammates(mainly other squishies), interrupt key skills only, etc