Curse

sb413197 · Feb 20, 2009, 06:37 PM // 18:37

This is probably an old question, but I was wondering what the consensus was on "of fortitude" mods for shields and weapons versus "of +5 defense" for the prophecies campaign. It seems like the extra armor might make some sense - less damage taken and relatively easier healing due to less total hit points? The thing that would offset this would be attacks that ignore armor? I see fortitude is much more popular and in fact I have these mods on

Also - would this vary based on profession? I use a W/R, but what about for a profession with lower armor like an E/R?

Winterclaw · Feb 20, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

+5 armor reduces the damage you take by 6.25%, which isn't a lot and you already have 116/96 AL vs physical/elemental.

+30 HP increases your base health by a similar percentage but also helps you against spikes, degen, and armor ignoring attacks.

Considering you have all that armor to begin with, go with +hp.

Tyla · Feb 20, 2009, 06:46 PM // 18:46

If you have enough weapon slots and can weaponswap into each under the right circumstances, I'll just use both.

Asara · Feb 20, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Agree with the weaponswapping. However, if you want my opinion as for a 'general' answer, I would go with the +30 health over +5 armor if I had to only have one option.

Another thing to get into the habit of doing is looking for the +10 Armor vs (type) shields, such as +10 armor vs. Cold, etc.

Artisan Archer · Feb 20, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36

In PvE: always armor > health, as monsters will attack the character with the lowest health, and you being the warrior, they should attack you.

talisk3 · Feb 20, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

I disagree with Artisan,
They do attack you a lot, but in PvE there is a LOT of degen and armor doesn't help you out there.
+30hp>+5AL

MisterB · Feb 20, 2009, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If you have enough weapon slots and can weaponswap into each under the right circumstances, I'll just use both.

This. Use both; that is what multiple weaponsets are for. Swap to your high health set when you are low on health, and stay there until/if you are able to recover. A + health mod doesn't do anything until you are at 1 hp.

_Nihilist_ · Feb 21, 2009, 02:01 AM // 02:01

+5 Defense mods will negate more damage over the course of long-term gameplay, +30 Fortitude mods give you extra HP to survive Spikes, Armor-Ignoring Damage, and Degen.

If you have the time, money, and storage space, getting a full armory of both +5 Defense and +30 Fortitude Weapons is feasible, if you are a casual player, or one who likes to play lazy and prefers not to weaponswap then go with the +30 upgrades.

Personally, I have a few weapons set up for specific Farming Builds, Runs, and Areas that use one of the 3 +armor mods, be it Defense +5, Warding +7 vs. Ele, or Shelter +7 vs. Physical and shields set up for Fortitude, Devotion, Endurance, and various reduction (be it dmg reduc or condition reduc), my general use and PvP gear is set up with +30 Fortitudes.

In HM the +5 Defense isn't going to do more unless you are consistently facing a 500+ dmg Spike.

Spike Stritter · Feb 21, 2009, 05:53 AM // 05:53

i use +30 just because it has been dubbed part of a "perfect" weapon (15^50, 20/20 +30)<--its ok if u dont know what these terms mean they are irrelevant to this conversation.
Anyway even though i use +30 i always thought that +5 armor would be better cuz the general long term fighting...but usually in PvE if ur in a long fight ur doing something wrong.
So, stick with the crowd, go +30 health.

Of course if u want both then get both as that is the best choice, as said before multiple times.

qvtkc · Feb 23, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

In HM the +5 Defense isn't going to do much, as stated multiple times in other sources, 6.25% reduction doesn't take the edge off of a ~500-600 dmg Spike.

6.25% of 500 damage is 31.25 so actually +5 armor would help more there, given that all of the incoming spike is affected by armor.

Still, more health helps vs. everything and reduces energy loss through overhealing, so it's overall better to take the +30.

_Nihilist_ · Feb 24, 2009, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

6.25% of 500 damage is 31.25 so actually +5 armor would help more there, given that all of the incoming spike is affected by armor.

Still, more health helps vs. everything and reduces energy loss through overhealing, so it's overall better to take the +30.

I should have done my MathCraft, but I'm @ work, and didn't feel like messing with a calculator (which is a big, fat excuse; I'll admit to it). Now I must EDIT my earlier post and remove that incorrect statement.

The last part of your quote sums it up nicely, qvtkc.

Luminarus · Feb 24, 2009, 03:50 AM // 03:50

I think it more comes down to how much armor you have already. As tyrael said, it takes off 6.25%. Assuming this is correct, coz I never bothered to work it out. On a 100 damage fireball, on a 60AL target, youll save yourself 6 damage. If 5 of these come at you to kill you, thats the 30 damage saved, in which case it would be the same either way (this doesnt take into account the fact that you would have more then 500 hp in most occasions, and that some damage/degen etc would ignore armor.)

On a warrior one the other hand, iirc 40 armor = -50% damage. Lets assume that the warrior has 100 armor vs ele (due to shield, its not perfect but you get the picture.) The fireballs damage has been reduced by base armor to 50, and the +5 armor reduces it a further 3. The higher armor you get, the more redundant more armor is.

Because of this, I personally would stick with a +30 on a warrior, however on a caster a +5 armor seems to have more help, especially when this totals to +23 armor if using the right shield set (+25, if the +7 armor mods are used.)

laksa and curry · Feb 24, 2009, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Option 1
+5 armour mod and a survivor insigna for armour. Its a nice "balance".
Pros
+5 armour on weapon is unconditional.
HP gained (+40/+35 if stonefist insigna is used) on survivor insigna is also unconditional.
Option with highest unconditional +HP
Unrestricted build

Cons
"Balance" means giving up something ie. Giving up better armour protection. vs physical and ele alike.

Option 2
Brawlers/sentry and a +30 hp weapon modifier. Good balance too.
Pros
+10 armour gained conditional but conditions as good as neligible.
+30hp gained. Unconditional cant be stripped.
Highest protection from physical source
Unrestricted build

Cons
+10 bonus can be stripped by wild blow. Or when you are too concern about spamming attacks ignoring the fact that stance has worn out.
+10 bonus can be stripped when running to next target without attacking. Or charging into mob of foes without attacking.

+40/+35 from survivor insigna from 1st option > +30 from weapon modifier.

Option 3
Sentials and +30 weapon modifier

Pros
Strong "best" coverage against ele spikes.
+30hp gained. Unconditional cant be stripped.

Cons
Worse off vs physical damage protection than all options.
+13 str means build rigidity. (warrior class being one of the few that does not need to invest points in secondary profession)
+13 str = conditional + 20 vs ele armour coverage
If you run +14 str to make coverage unconditonal u lose 35 hp from major rune.
+40/+35 from survivor insigna from 1st option > +30 from weapon modifier.

Option 4
Dreadnaughts and +30 weapon modifier

Pros
unconditional +10 vs ele damage
Unrestricted build
+30hp gained. Unconditional cant be stripped.

Cons
Worse off vs physical damage protection than all options.
Loses out to sentials +20 vs +10
Loses out to sentry/brawler vs physical
+40/+35 from survivor insigna from 1st option > +30 from weapon modifier.

Option 5
Knights Insigna and +30 weapon modifier.

Pros
Best coverage vs physical
Unrestricted build
+30hp gained. Unconditional cant be stripped.

Cons
Worse off in terms of ele armour protection than all the above options.
+40/+35 from survivor insigna from 1st option > +30 from weapon modifier.

Thats my own opinion others may dispute or deny but its ok ^^

FoxBat · Feb 24, 2009, 09:02 AM // 09:02

There is a diminishing return effect with armor. Generally warriors will not benefit enough (except maybe hammer/scythe vs elemental), but as mentioned, casters often will.

qvtkc · Feb 24, 2009, 12:29 PM // 12:29

On the other hand, casters often have even greater use of the +20% enchantment mod, which occupies the same slot in a martial weapon.