Curse

MercenaryKnight · Jul 09, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Most people see it as one of two ways. Either, this is so easy without save yourselves thus no big deal to bring it. Or they don't have access to it and thus can't bring it. I normally run my imbagon only in areas of somewhat "hard" difficulty or big bosses or ele groups are expected. Normally I just run an ap caller with discord for easier places to go faster.

Kendel · Jul 10, 2009, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

It's not that they can't handle PvE w/o "SY!", it's that they like the +100AL boost that they get. Not being able to handle without it is very different than liking the skill available.

My wife in particular runs a Superior Elemental and Major Energy Storage rune with most of her Ele Builds. She really likes "SY!", so if she asks, I'll bring it. It gets boring after the millionth time you've used DSlash > Dslash > Dslash > "SY!", but meh, I aim to please.

Sounds like a direct substitute of playing skillfully imo. Instead of knowing what you can get away with in terms of runage, upping your armour passively where possible, positioning/agro, etc, you substitute it for a skill that makes you almost invincible to all damage thats effected by armour.

Unless you feel your team isn't upto the task or could maybe use a little support for some of the mobs you'll face just incase theres really no reason to take SY and/or perma SY the team *if you don't want to*.

GourangaPizza · Jul 10, 2009, 03:52 AM // 03:52

PUGs -> SY! mandatory
Guildies /mates -> SY! optional

Simple. If you think your group is threadbare in support bring it else don't.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 11, 2009, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

Sounds like a direct substitute of playing skillfully imo. Instead of knowing what you can get away with in terms of runage, upping your armour passively where possible, positioning/agro, etc, you substitute it for a skill that makes you almost invincible to all damage thats effected by armour.

Unless you feel your team isn't upto the task or could maybe use a little support for some of the mobs you'll face just incase theres really no reason to take SY and/or perma SY the team *if you don't want to*.

Take it as you want to take it, Kendel, when I have room for "SY!" on my bar, there is absolutely no reason not to take the skill. I would rather play Earth Shaker any day, but if my team for whatever reason requests that I bring "SY!", I'll run Dragon Slash+"SY!" because of the insanely strong +AL boost and the ability to keep it up constantly for 20-30 seconds.

My wife doesn't play to SpeedClear everything, she plays for FUN. I don't care if she's fully optimized, and to be quite honest, she ISN'T, but it's a god-damned GAME. She plays to enjoy playing, not to be the absolute best mini-max'er out there - that's MY job. That's how I enjoy playing, she doesn't.

If I'm in a PUG, which I try to avoid, but sometimes help with just to be friendly, I'm bringing "SY!", end of story. I can't count on a PUG, and to be safe, I'll toss out +100AL to my party when things look like they're getting a bit too rough for them to handle.

Lux Aeterna · Jul 11, 2009, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Superior Elemental and Major Energy Storage rune with most of her Ele Builds.

Lol log into her account while she's not looking and change them for minors, she'll never notice the difference and if she does she'll love it because she dies much less.

I mean since when is it worth losing 35 hp for 3 energy.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 11, 2009, 04:01 AM // 04:01

I like my family bits where they are, thanks. She will know the difference. She has multiple sets of armor for her Ele - mostly mix-n-match - she doesn't generally like a full set of any one armor (her Norn and Ancient are the only two full sets she has), she prefers to use custom combos. Since she runs mix-n-match, her runes (to anyone but her) look haphazard and scattered at random.

tl;dr - I'm not touching my wife's setup, I don't have a deathwish

Patar · Jul 11, 2009, 11:23 PM // 23:23

I use it. It's a huge help.

Paul Dawg · Jul 20, 2009, 03:20 PM // 15:20

It's earshot-range. I've often seen SY! go up for one hero and not for the others.

But I fail to comprehend why someone would not want to bring SY. I have a guildie who thinks it's boring; OK, fair enough, I'll bring it instead and we'll be fine. But having NO ONE bring it? Huh? That's like saying, OK, let's not bring splinter weapon, let's not bring protective spirit--those skills make the game way too easy and are SOOOOOO boring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

By the way, yes, I'm aware that this shout is "earshot range and misses the backline." There's debate on the description of the skill saying ALL other party members gain armor. It doesn't necessarily say party members in earshot. However, I could be wrong at this and it needs testing. Volunteers with evidence of their findings are welcome. Besides, the earshot range is just a typical assumption, but again this theory needs testing.

Awex Mafyews · Jul 21, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

As others have stated in this thread why use 8 adrenaline on a skill that protects everyone else in your party when actually your the one that needs it most? And assuming your doing your job properly you should be holding the majority of aggro and taking the most damage. As this is supposed to be a paragon skill the most useful user surely would be a paragon? I strongly recommend using it in the imbagon build where it can be used effectively, but as part of a front line warrior its wasting a skill slot protecting back liners who don't need it and also taking away from the amount of damage you could be dishing out and we all know the best defence is a good offence.

Lishy · Jul 21, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Hmm... It doesn't seem it, but SY seems to be an incredibly balanced skill.
It takes in consideration of range, and since a war is in the front of the battlefield, they will get spiked, stopping SY in a matter of seconds and kill you.

Just my thoughts.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 21, 2009, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awex Mafyews

As this is supposed to be a paragon skill the most useful user surely would be a paragon?

You're wrong Awex.

The Kurzick/Luxon Paragon skill is "Spear of Fury", and the Kurzick/Luxon Warrior skill is "Save Yourselves!"

If you don't run a Warrior secondary on that Imbagon, you won't be using "Save Yourselves!". Ever.

Paul Dawg · Jul 21, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Yanno, all this talk about how the war is supposed to be up at the front lines and his SY won't cover the whole party reminds me of one very important reason why I generally do better hero-henching than playing with other humans: my heroes know to stay with me, and they're almost always within earshot range of me, so they almost always get covered by my SY. Other humans think they know how to play the game, so they hang back, don't hear my SY, and end up getting fried. So these days I try not to play with other humans unless I know their playing styles very well.

Spike Stritter · Jul 21, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

i pretty much got my legendary vanquisher with it and h/h. warrior not bringing SY is like a ranger not bringing a bow.

Awex Mafyews · Jul 21, 2009, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

You're wrong Awex.

The Kurzick/Luxon Paragon skill is "Spear of Fury", and the Kurzick/Luxon Warrior skill is "Save Yourselves!"

If you don't run a Warrior secondary on that Imbagon, you won't be using "Save Yourselves!". Ever.

Ahhh my bad. I guess it should be a paragon skill as they use it most effectively.

The problem with SY is it really isn't completely spammable and if you are spamming it then chances are your not doing as much damage and holding as much aggro as you should be as a warrior. I guess this whole argument boils down to whether you prefer extra defence or extra offence and that's down to the player.

laksa and curry · Jul 22, 2009, 12:55 AM // 00:55

The whole team should make it an effort to remain in your shout range and not kite around. I cant understand why people prefer to stay out of range when I go DS SY.......

SY is a great to have PVE skill. Please do not compare it to main skills like splinter weapon or protective spirit.

And to side track a little I did legendary vq on 2 chars without SY. Have to admit certain areas were harder. I died and had to repeat a few times. I am patient and do not always seek "fail-safe" builds.^^

Love it or loathe it, its pve and its just a game so do not insist we warriors run DS+SY every time one joins you. Be it as a pug or 2 men 6 heros set up.

Jaigoda · Jul 22, 2009, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awex Mafyews

Ahhh my bad. I guess it should be a paragon skill as they use it most effectively.

This honestly seems kind of true to me. Not only do Paragons use it better than pretty much any other profession (though DS wars do compete with it for SY spammage alone). And anyway, it makes sense for the supposed leader of the team to sacrifice himself to save others (which I would assume was the intended purpose for the skill).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awex Mafyews

The problem with SY is it really isn't completely spammable and if you are spamming it then chances are your not doing as much damage and holding as much aggro as you should be as a warrior. I guess this whole argument boils down to whether you prefer extra defence or extra offence and that's down to the player.

If you're getting 10 adrenaline every hit, every adren skill in the game is spammable. Also, you do realize that if everyone else has +100 armor, that you're going to become a bigger target, and thus can hold aggro BETTER? And if you're running DS, you can still deal decent damage, but also have the big advantage of providing everyone else on the team the ability to max out damage. Hell, you might be able to drop the second monk for another damage, and do far more than you could have on your own. This is a team game, which so, so many people seem to be forgetting lately.

Necromas · Jul 22, 2009, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Save yourselves just isn't necessary, sure it's imbalanced, sure it's spammable when combined with the right skills, so what? Decent players can do all but the hardest stuff without it (if you're playing with bad players, you should be worried about their whole build not just one skill), and good players can do any area without it.

You might as well complain why everyone doesn't bring pain inverter and asuran scan.

Jaigoda · Jul 22, 2009, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necromas

Save yourselves just isn't necessary, sure it's imbalanced, sure it's spammable when combined with the right skills, so what? Decent players can do all but the hardest stuff without it (if you're playing with bad players, you should be worried about their whole build not just one skill), and good players can do any area without it.

You can also do without any armor on in the majority of the game. Does that mean you should run around vanquishing naked? If you think it does, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necromas

You might as well complain why everyone doesn't bring pain inverter and asuran scan.

A similar reason why casters don't run SY. PI sucks on phys's, and AS sucks on casters. Also, there are better options for PvE skills than PI anyway. Arguing for EVAS would probably be better, and that honestly should be on most caster builds anyway.

M @ T · Jul 22, 2009, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Stritter

i pretty much got my legendary vanquisher with it and h/h. warrior not bringing SY is like a ranger not bringing a bow.

Unless that ranger is a toucher

If I PUG I always bring SY no matter what. If I'm on a guild run I might not

Awex Mafyews · Jul 22, 2009, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

If you're getting 10 adrenaline every hit, every adren skill in the game is spammable. Also, you do realize that if everyone else has +100 armor, that you're going to become a bigger target, and thus can hold aggro BETTER? And if you're running DS, you can still deal decent damage, but also have the big advantage of providing everyone else on the team the ability to max out damage. Hell, you might be able to drop the second monk for another damage, and do far more than you could have on your own. This is a team game, which so, so many people seem to be forgetting lately.

That's an extremely good point, I can't say I ever considered it. It makes a lot of sense also.