Curse

Giro · Feb 26, 2010, 05:49 PM // 17:49

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...ame=&Go=Submit

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Uses Warrior's Endurance to spam Power Attack and Crude Swing, which build up adrenaline to use the AoE KD Yeti Smash (with "You are all weaklings!" supplying the AoE conditions).

Comments? Criticism?

The main idea was to use WE to spam energy skills, so the adrenal loss from Yeti would not have an effect (preferably use "SY!" followed by Yeti).

Terek Zelta · Feb 26, 2010, 07:06 PM // 19:06

It's a great concept, and one that I was fiddling around with pre-update, just going by the skill update preview posted on the wiki.

WE hammer could pretty easily replace WE axe in my opinion. In fact, thanks to these hammer buffs, I'm finding it hard to even use my axes now.

Personally, I have no idea why everyone's using You Are All Weaklings. The 12 second recharge kills it for me. I find using Withering Aura and Crude Swing or, in some cases, just the new Staggering Blow to be much easier.

Also, with Warrior's Endurance, there has to be a way to seriously abuse Renewing Smash, so let's try something like...

Crude Swing
Yeti Smash
Crushing Blow/Optional
Renewing Smash
Withering Aura
Warrior's Endurance
Flail
Enraging Charge/Optional

With the new Renewing Smash, if it can be KDed, there's no reason to bring Power Attack. You also go into energy management god-mode, but after testing this and Dwarven Battle Stance with Auspicious Blow, I actually like this better - it's easy to keep a group of enemies on their back. Easier than even Earth Shaker.

Tenebrae · Feb 26, 2010, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Withering Aura totally fits on your MM bar so yo have room for another skill , you can use Thrill of Victory/FearMe with 10 Tact points for pure dmg + effect or Power Attack Spam.

Del · Feb 26, 2010, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Withering Aura totally fits on your MM bar so yo have room for another skill , you can use Thrill of Victory/FearMe with 10 Tact points for pure dmg + effect or Power Attack Spam.

10 tact lol, no sent's insigs.

Terek Zelta · Feb 26, 2010, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Withering Aura totally fits on your MM bar so yo have room for another skill , you can use Thrill of Victory/FearMe with 10 Tact points for pure dmg + effect or Power Attack Spam.

Exactly. I was just going to mention that if you're like me, and you're used to microing hero skills, you don't even need to have Withering Aura on your own bar, giving you three free spaces. So if you want Power Attack, like just in case, it's there.

So I think Withering Aura is definitely the better option. For me, it's just a matter of using the numpad to micro the skill - nothing I'm not used to.

As for sentinel's insignias, they've never made or broken me. Sentry's works well enough.

Giro · Feb 26, 2010, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Offtopic: You can assign keybindings to hero skills?

Ontopic:

I agree with Withering Aura on your hero, then. But I still love Asuran Scan for the pure damage increase. How about:

WE
Flail
Asuran Scan
Power Attack/Crushing Blow
Crude Swing
Yeti
Renewing
Enraging Charge/LC/SY!/Optional

Terek Zelta · Feb 26, 2010, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Perfect!

And yeah, you can!

Go into the options menu and under controls, you can bind skills to whatever keys you want.

What I'm using is this:

Crude Swing
Fierce Blow
Yeti Smash
Renewing Smash
Warrior's Endurance
Flail
Enraging Charge
Sunspear Rebirth

While testing, I'm finding Crushing Blow to get in the way of spamming Renewing Smash, but Fierce Blow works perfectly, and you can lead right into Yeti Smash right after using it.

With a minion master, Withering Aura lasts upwards of 19 seconds, making it the most effective way to spread Weakness with Crude Swing.

The damage I'm getting out of this is downright abusive. It's a guaranteed kill, along with AoE knockdowns and mass weakness and infinite energy.

Bye Earth Shaker. You're fired.

Giro · Feb 26, 2010, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Wiki says the weakness of withering aura is applied before the ally's attack hits, so you don't even need to spread it with Crude Swing. You should be able to apply and KD with Yeti, though I havent tried yet.

EDIT: Not saying Crude Swing still isn't good. I still have it on the bar, just wanted to make a point.

Terek Zelta · Feb 26, 2010, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Yep. Sure can. I use Crude Swing to help with building adrenaline more than spreading the weakness, hehe.

Withering Aura wins.

Edit: I'm really astonished at how great this idea is. WE makes it ideal for use with Asura Scan. The only downside this build has is that I'm finding it hard to use SY, but I suppose you can use it before hitting Yeti Smash. Just doesn't feel right to me.

Edit #2: You know what? You don't even need WE.

I was fiddling around with other elites, because I don't use Asuran Scan and because I hate Flail.

So what I started doing was I specced into Tactics and started using Soldier's Stance.

So my build is this:

Auspicious Blow
Fierce Blow
Yeti Smash
Renewing Smash
Fear Me!
For Great Justice! (This is optional.)
Soldier's Stance
To The Limit!

To The Limit! even lets me use major runes because of the health buff.

Auspicious Blow is more than enough energy, and the blocking is so~ useful.

Yay Tactics!

Edit #3!

Try this. This is abuse.

Auspicious Blow
Fierce Blow
Yeti Smash
Renewing Smash
Enraged Smash (E)
Flail
Enraging Charge/Optional
Optional

Chthon · Feb 26, 2010, 10:12 PM // 22:12

These builds lose SY! and don't appear to add anything over Earthshaker. Kindly point out what specifically is an improvement?

Terek Zelta · Feb 26, 2010, 10:24 PM // 22:24

They're sustainable. Earth Shaker isn't.

A lot of people have even said in the past that SY messes up Earth Shaker chains, and I have to agree with them, so I never bring it anyway. I'm not losing anything.

It's much more difficult to maintain adrenaline with Whirlwind and Crude Swing alone, so we usually end up bringing FGJ, and FGJ only has a 20 second duration. With Enraged Smash and Renewing Smash, you can keep it up for as long as your little heart desires without worry.

But even then, they don't lose SY completely. It's perfectly reasonable to use it with Enraged Smash before you use Yeti Smash. You can't maintain it, but you can't maintain it usually with Earth Shaker either.

Oh, right. Earth Shaker also relies heavily on being surrounded by 3-4 enemies. That's not always doable. I've been able to keep a group of foes on their back much easier than Earth Shaker. To the point where, the second they get up, they're back down again. I couldn't do that with Earth Shaker without FGJ.

Edit #2: And then we have the DPS. Do you know what the average DPS of this setup is? 95, buffed only with Withering Aura. That's a far cry from Earth Shaker's 56, but granted, that comes from Renewing Smash. But this build gets deep wound, Renewing Smash and SY if you want. It's not hard to hit Enraged Smash -> SY -> Yeti Smash, and then go into a Renewing Smash fit.

Tenebrae · Feb 26, 2010, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Hammer attack speed and bonuses are a pain when trying a DPS build but Enraged ->HammerBash->Renewing->Thrill of Victory when foe is < 50% HP kinda looks like a bloody knock lock. Dont really like yeti smash , Withering grants you 1 KD but forces you to use crude swing to spread weakness .. bleh , still need time to test em.
For the WE usage , build on #7 looks good.

Chthon · Feb 26, 2010, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terek Zelta

They're sustainable. Earth Shaker isn't.

A lot of people have even said in the past that SY messes up Earth Shaker chains, and I have to agree with them, so I never bring it anyway. I'm not losing anything.

It's much more difficult to maintain adrenaline with Whirlwind and Crude Swing alone, so we usually end up bringing FGJ, and FGJ only has a 20 second duration. With Enraged Smash and Renewing Smash, you can keep it up for as long as your little heart desires without worry.

But even then, they don't lose SY completely. It's perfectly reasonable to use it with Enraged Smash before you use Yeti Smash. You can't maintain it, but you can't maintain it usually with Earth Shaker either.

Oh, right. Earth Shaker also relies heavily on being surrounded by 3-4 enemies. That's not always doable. I've been able to keep a group of foes on their back much easier than Earth Shaker. To the point where, the second they get up, they're back down again. I couldn't do that with Earth Shaker without FGJ.

Edit #2: And then we have the DPS. Do you know what the average DPS of this setup is? 95, buffed only with Withering Aura. That's a far cry from Earth Shaker's 56, but granted, that comes from Renewing Smash. But this build gets deep wound, Renewing Smash and SY if you want. It's not hard to hit Enraged Smash -> SY -> Yeti Smash, and then go into a Renewing Smash fit.

Hmmmm. You seem to be making a false comparison between the old Earthshaker Build and your new build. There's nothing stopping you from putting Renewing Smash into an Earthshaker build.... The question is: What do you gain by using Yeti+WE or Yeti+ESmash over doing basically the same build with Earthshaker? I'm very dubious that you've got 100% upkeep on any of your Yeti builds, since I don't see how you even come close to building 7 adr in 3 sec. I also doubt that there's a big DPS difference once you stick Renewing in both builds.

Terek Zelta · Feb 27, 2010, 12:42 AM // 00:42

It's pretty obvious to me that you aren't interested in the builds, but proving me wrong. I'm going to respond anyway.

Play it and you'd see. Also, read my posts, as we've moved on from WE (I said you didn't need it, read above) and started using Enraged Smash.

I'm not making a false comparison either. Earth Shaker still uses Whirlwind and Crude Swing and for good reason. If you use Crude Swing with Renewing Smash, you run into energy problems, even with a zealous weapon.

You could use Renewing Smash in place of Crude Swing in an Earth Shaker build, but it's much more difficult to manage.

I took this build into the Zaishen Bounty not too long ago:

Yeti Smash
Renewing Smash
Enraged Smash
Save Yourselves
Optional
Flail
Enraging Charge
Optional/Sunspear Rebirth

It crushed the Jade Brotherhood. Not only was it almost overpowered, but maintaining SY with it was way easier than doing it with Earth Shaker; way more reliable.

The rotation was: Enraging Charge -> Enraged Smash -> Flail -> SY -> Yeti Smash -> Renewing Smash x4 -> Enraged Smash -> SY -> repeat.

Edit: Let me simplify that. Yeti Smash -> Renewing Smash x4 -> Enraged Smash. Works really well and abuses the adrenaline engine.

There was almost no downtime between skill use. Once a mob got up, they were back down again, and if they weren't, it was because I needed to recast Flail and/or SY and they were right back down shortly after.

It's efficient, sustainable, and SY is a lot easier to maintain with it. It's an interesting mixture between Dragon Slash and Earth Shaker.

As for Warrior's Endurance, you're right, but I said that a few hours ago.

Prayash · Feb 27, 2010, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terek Zelta

It's pretty obvious to me that you aren't interested in the builds, but proving me wrong. I'm going to respond anyway.

Play it and you'd see. Also, read my posts, as we've moved on from WE (I said you didn't need it, read above) and started using Enraged Smash.

I'm not making a false comparison either. Earth Shaker still uses Whirlwind and Crude Swing and for good reason. If you use Crude Swing with Renewing Smash, you run into energy problems, even with a zealous weapon.

You could use Renewing Smash in place of Crude Swing in an Earth Shaker build, but it's much more difficult to manage.

I took this build into the Zaishen Bounty not too long ago:

Yeti Smash
Renewing Smash
Enraged Smash
Save Yourselves
Optional
Flail
Enraging Charge
Optional/Sunspear Rebirth

It crushed the Jade Brotherhood. Not only was it almost overpowered, but maintaining SY with it was way easier than doing it with Earth Shaker; way more reliable.

The rotation was: Enraging Charge -> Enraged Smash -> Flail -> SY -> Yeti Smash -> Renewing Smash x4 -> Enraged Smash -> SY -> repeat.

Edit: Let me simplify that. Yeti Smash -> Renewing Smash x4 -> Enraged Smash. Works really well and abuses the adrenaline engine.

There was almost no downtime between skill use. Once a mob got up, they were back down again, and if they weren't, it was because I needed to recast Flail and/or SY and they were right back down shortly after.

It's efficient, sustainable, and SY is a lot easier to maintain with it. It's an interesting mixture between Dragon Slash and Earth Shaker.

As for Warrior's Endurance, you're right, but I said that a few hours ago.

How do you cause AoE knockdown with Yeti Smash without applying any conditions?

**Marty Silverblade** · Feb 27, 2010, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Withering Aura on a Necromancer, as previously discussed.

Magragoc · Feb 27, 2010, 03:38 AM // 03:38

I may just be showcasing my foolishness, but while it looks interesting, why are you hung up on Withering Aura? It seems to me that Enfeebling Blood is just better in every way. if you're bringing a Necro anyways, Enfeebling Blood will weaken an entire mob before you even get into melee and you won't have to worry about pesky stances or enchantments keeping you from applying Weakness yourself.

draxynnic · Feb 27, 2010, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magragoc

I may just be showcasing my foolishness, but while it looks interesting, why are you hung up on Withering Aura? It seems to me that Enfeebling Blood is just better in every way. if you're bringing a Necro anyways, Enfeebling Blood will weaken an entire mob before you even get into melee and you won't have to worry about pesky stances or enchantments keeping you from applying Weakness yourself.

It's less fiddly. If you have Withering Aura on yourself, you know the condition will be there when you need it. With Enfeebling Blood, you need to micro your hero more, and even then you might get stuck on recharge if you're dropping your foes quickly.

Knocking On Heavens Door · Feb 27, 2010, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Terek Zelta on post #9, the last edit left you with 1, possibly 2 optional slots. Could you just bring Withering Aura on your own bar as i dont have a mm?

Chthon · Feb 27, 2010, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terek Zelta

Enraged Smash.

Has a 5sec recharge. That means your minimum cycle time is 6.1725 at 33% IAS. Your KD lasts 3 sec with stonefist. That's less than 50% uptime (or "downtime" might be the better term here), and certainly not maintainable.

By contrast, so long as you have any one of the following -- Renewing+FGJ, Renewing+Mark of Fury, Renewing+Dark Fury, or mob of 4 for Crude/WW -- then Earthshaker can be charged and ready to use by the time the mob gets up.

Quote:

If you use Crude Swing with Renewing Smash, you run into energy problems, even with a zealous weapon.

Auspicious pretty much solves all energy problems on hammer builds, including this one.