Curse

KingAlkaiser · Dec 08, 2010, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Hello I would first like to say I was a former warrior/monk from first days of guild wars and even had full 100k "piggy armor upgrade "

anyways i deleted my warrior a long time ago because either:
1) i didn't fully understand it/mastered it
2)I went into t thinking i could do super damage
3) I thought I could tank like in mmorpg

anyways I always found end game warrior useless, but like i said again its been ages and i never really experimented with it much.

my questions:
1) i read hammer upgrade and i am excited since i enjoy annoying people/enemy with knock down and hammer deal the most physical damage ( is this correct )?

2) what secondary do you guys recommend?
i was thinking w/r for pet fun and running skills is this better than w/a for hammer /sword secondary master?

3) i never really bothered with assassins also but how does warrior compare contrast to assasin and dervish? from what i read dervish is the 2handed AoE damage glass jaw/assassin is one target glass jaw/ and warrior is the "jack of all trades/tankish melee"

can anyone compare these for me? I just finished purchasing nightfall and had factions for a while.

any information is appreciated>

P.S- if anyone has all 3 what is the most fun in the end?most boring?

Wielder Of Magic · Dec 08, 2010, 11:19 AM // 11:19

The weapon that deals the most physical damage is the scythe ( 9-41 of a scythe versus 19-35 of a hammer). Hammer warriors are sure viable both pve and pvp.

Your secondary will pretty much depend on the build you will play. Some will recommend assassin for shadowstepping into a mob and immediatly KD with build adrenaline, others will recommend Dervish ( W/D endurance scythe deals among the highest DPS in the game, only topped by the A/D critscythe variant I believe ) So it really depends on what you want to do.
W/R should solely be for fun, as it won't be the most efficient thing to play.

In terms of damage its always a close call between warrior and assassin.
Dervishes will always be the low end third.
Assassins do more DPS with critscythe than a warrior with an Endurance scythe build, But warriors usually have more armor ( when not taking critical agility into account ) so will stay alive longer and thus dish out more hits.
Also a warrior is usually more flexible, since one of the most OP skills in the game ( "Save Yourselfes!") is embedded in its primary profession, leaving a lot of flexibility in your secondary. AOE is debatable, assassins can ms/db things to pices, warriors have hundred blades, but will need a mark of pain necromancer to really use hundred blades to its full potential.

Warriors are certainly viable both in low and high end pve, but assassins usually find groups easier ( more energy regen, SHADOW FORM, etc ). If you find a good guild however warriors can do extremely well. They use warriors in Manlyway for a reason.

So, warrior is more fun, assassin is more viable for mainstream ( meaning: if you are casual)

just my thoughts.

KingAlkaiser · Dec 08, 2010, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Thank you very much for information i appreciate it a ton.

1)how do war deal with super low energy?
2) I don't want to use sythe only hammer main/ and maybe sword/shield if i get bored. So for a hammer what is the "recommended build" or suggest me to some build? i see on pvx wiki W/anything hammer build i like but I have no idea what to pick for secondary. Any suggestions appreciated. I was thinking ranger only for having fun with a pet along me, but energy on warrior is tough as it is. What secondary benefits hammer builds?

Wielder Of Magic · Dec 08, 2010, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Warriors usually deal with low energy simply by not using many energy skills.
Most of your skills require adrenaline to function, so a warrior usually isn't in need of heavy energy managment. the only warrior build that begs for energy managment is the Endurance scythe, in which Warriors Endurance solves the problem.
If you have energy issues in any other build, a zealous weapon usually solves all your problems ( as even at lowest swing speed a zealous weapon pays for itself, and shines when hitting multiple foes)

So you chose the hammer.
the following are links to the wiki for some basic builds.
Remember that optionals are there for a reason.
No build works for all areas in the game, so adaption is needed.

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:W/any_Dwarven_Hammer

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:W/any_PvE_Earth_Shaker

These are most in use when you use a hammer.
I usually go /A for a hammer build, simply to deaths charge into a mob, and immediatly KD all of them with earthshaker.
But its mostly up to your preference really.

KingAlkaiser · Dec 08, 2010, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Thank you very much for the information, it truly has helped me perfectly and beautifully to the last point ^^.

Im going to start my prophecy character tonight ^^ ( the faction warrior looks funny looking, and i still don't have nightfall its on the mail)

running guys in prophecy is a pain in the ass since it feels long as hell but I haven't played it in ages so looking at story again to refresh my memory will be nice.

im liking that "The Brawling Combo" spam reminds me of that ranger skill that recharges instantly if enemy below 50% health like machine gun.

many thanks my friend i appreciate all the info.

RedDog91 · Dec 08, 2010, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wielder Of Magic

~snip~

And if you want to use a scythe on a warrior, warriors have a great elite called Flourish which recgrages all attack skills and give energy for each one recharged.

I've found it very fun to use a build with 5 attack skills that all require 5 energy, set them in order on your bar from longest recharge to shortest, and then have Flourish as skill 6.
you can spend all day spamming 1,2,3,4,5,6,repeat to dish out an average of 60 dmg per hit in NM (45-50 in HM)

Premium Unleaded · Dec 08, 2010, 03:42 PM // 15:42

If you want to use an energy heavy bar on a warrior (scythes falls into this group), then Warrior's Endurance is the skill you need, not Flourish.

RedDog91 · Dec 08, 2010, 04:29 PM // 16:29

^ If you're in a melee heavy area, yes
but with Flourish you can go into any area

Haggis of Doom · Dec 08, 2010, 05:54 PM // 17:54

^ how would WE fail in non-melee heavy areas

WE allows much greater bar versatility. IAS, cancel stance, AScan, SY ... Even if you take Drunken Master (which doesn't need a cancel stance), with Flourish you're looking at 4-5 slots taken so you can't really fit 5 attack skills on your bar. A typical warrior bar has around 3-4 attack skills, in any case.

Ofc, @13 str you're getting 18e (easily all you need, unless you're running all Radiant) with only 3 recharged skills. The downside is you can only recharge your energy bar every 8 seconds, you have to time your positioning so that all your e-based attack skills are recharging when Flourish recharges, and it discourages you from having adrenal skills (Dismember, WWA...). On a WE warrior, this limit is easily exceeded with multi-target attacks, and using adrenal attacks will actually be beneficial for more AScan spamming.

The only place Flourish has an e-management advantage over WE is when there are a lot of blocking/missing (Blurred Vision etc). Then again, if your attacks are blocked/missing you are not doing much good either way; and if they are not it means you're doing something about the blocking/missing (Wild Blow, Rigor Mortis, hex/condition removals...), which makes comparison more or less moot anyways.

RedDog91 · Dec 08, 2010, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Ah, I was reading it as "everytime you get hit with a melee attack" instead of "everytime you hit with a melee attack"

In any case, I still stick by Flourish being better. Your argument is good when general meta builds are being run, but my personal builds work better on Flourish.

Winterclaw · Dec 08, 2010, 10:30 PM // 22:30

IMO warriors work well without secondaries... you won't be using those skills much in a proper bar. Personally I'd go /mo just for rebirth.

Arrogant Bastard · Dec 09, 2010, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

Ah, I was reading it as "everytime you get hit with a melee attack" instead of "everytime you hit with a melee attack"

In any case, I still stick by Flourish being better. Your argument is good when general meta builds are being run, but my personal builds work better on Flourish.

Your opinion is wrong, WE is better than Flourish.

To answer some of the OP's questions:
-Your secondary doesn't really matter for a hammer warrior, you probably won't use anything but warrior and pve skills. Really only need /D if you want to use scythe.
-damage comparison: 100b War> all for AoE; daggersins>all for single target; with scythes Sin>War>Derv

Hugh Manatee · Dec 09, 2010, 01:11 PM // 13:11

I'd say /D for a hammer warrior, but for different reasons then already listed.

Some of the Scythe mastery skills are actually generic attack skills, not "scythe attacks" and can be used with any weapon. Pious assault, eremite's and Mystic sweep especially are useful with little investment. Pious assault is deep wound on demand on a hammer(like an axe), you can then spike HARD with a hammer elite, eremite's makes for a mean ground pound spike combined with earthshaker(it hits harder then prot strike VS grounded foes with only a fraction of a second longer activation time, and with ES you can get a lot of guys near you to max the potential), and you can make mystic sweep hurt a lot, even with only a few points in scythes if you load up on enchants.

you might think that this stuff would be too expensive to use on a hammer, but not with the new auspicious blow. +7-8 energy when it hits, unblockable VS weakened foes, takes 3 strikes to charge with FGJ, can be jump started by a /P or P/any hero with Inspirational speech and 8 in motivation. It's not as good as Warrior's Endurance, but really not bad for a non elite skill. One of the more underrated and stronger hammer skills, even before it's buff. I can spam PvE junk when I use my hammer that I can't when I use my axe and sword with this skill.

edit: forgot, /P can be useful for enduring harmony to make FGJ last longer in pve, and for wild throw for a cheap stance cancel in pvp(take a spear with you and juggle).

S{R}Raptor · Dec 11, 2010, 09:45 PM // 21:45

W/Mo Holy Strike Hammer

Necromas · Dec 12, 2010, 01:34 AM // 01:34

I'm kind of biased but there are a lot of nice cheap Necromancer spells that can be useful for a W/N.

Enfeebling Blood, Enfeeble, Enfeebling Touch, and Withering Aura will all cause weakness which is nice by itself but also can combo with hammer skills.

Plague Sending or Plague Touch will keep you clean of conditions and spread them to your enemies.

Demonic Flesh will add AoE damage to all your attack skills.

Fetid Ground gives you a way to cause poison on knocked down foes.

And finally weaken armor will cause cracked armor which is extremely useful in late areas of the game.

reaper with no name · Dec 14, 2010, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

And if you want to use a scythe on a warrior, warriors have a great elite called Flourish which recgrages all attack skills and give energy for each one recharged.

I've found it very fun to use a build with 5 attack skills that all require 5 energy, set them in order on your bar from longest recharge to shortest, and then have Flourish as skill 6.
you can spend all day spamming 1,2,3,4,5,6,repeat to dish out an average of 60 dmg per hit in NM (45-50 in HM)

A WE scythe warrior bar can pump out 99 dps against level 30 monsters. In HM.

That should tell you something about how much better WE is for scythe warriors than Flourish.

LifeInfusion · Dec 23, 2010, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Why would you run Flourish? Warrior's endurance doesn't require you to have more than 2 attack skills with short recharge.

TaeZ246 · Dec 27, 2010, 02:04 AM // 02:04

It really depends on what your doing, Monk can be nice for a lot of things, Dervish is good for a lot more things, and assassin is useful too. I use Dervish when i tank, Assassin when i run, and Monk on everything else. And by the way Warriors can tank. If you want i can show you some stuff when im online for tanking/running/hammer stuff. My IGN is Taez Grove.

For everyone else i kinda gotta go with Reddog91 on this, if you need energy run a zealous scythe, when your hitting a ton of enemies around you and constantly swinging the scythe you will maintain energy no problem. Flourish is what allows you to continue to use those attacks constantly to allow you to pump out good DPS.

Klance · Dec 27, 2010, 02:52 AM // 02:52

A scythe has an attack speed of 1.75s which is the highest for a melee weapon (tied with hammer), even with a 33% attack speed boost its still over 1s per swing.

Therefore its best to use eremite's attack and mystic sweep to bypass this problem.

With the ultimate, 3 pve skills, eremite+mystic+power attack/protector's strike, and an IAS, the bar is pretty much set. There is at most one free slot if you use candy/cons for the IAS or you devote a PvE skill slot to IAS.

With such a bar there is very little use for flourish, using a zealous scythe and WE you gain a minimum of 4 energy per attack which is even to power all your attack skills, so the energy gain from flourish is redundant.

Eremite+Mystic+Power attack also have a very low CD, so there is little use for the recharge effect on flourish.

Unless you run a bar with 3-4 high energy cost and long cool down attack skills, flourish is inferior to warrior's endurance for a warrior using a scythe.

TaeZ246 · Dec 27, 2010, 03:32 AM // 03:32

But we are not using those three attack skills we are using 5 attack skills and in this instance the highest damage attacks are what matter whether it is 1sec attack or not.

Now im not an expert on dervishes and i dont know all the highest damage attacks but at a quick glance this is what your looking at for high damage:

Victorious sweep
irresistible sweep
Counter attack
Power attack
Radiant scythe
Zealous sweep/aura slicer

any of those are options for decent high damage attacks. If you spam those all day long you can pump out decent dps, with a zealous scythe and flourish your maintaining energy no problem. So essentially with a IAS, 5 attacks, and flourish, the last skill being whatever you want. essentially with constant attacks at 1 second attack each will give you each attack once (im not going to do the math for attributes for damage) and a recharge on all of your skills including the IAS providing it is recharging still. imo that sounds a lot better.