Curse

Lishy · Jul 04, 2011, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Why does Cleave still exist? It seems just about the most useless skill in the game right now. There must be a purpose in using it, right? What do you folks at GWG think? :P

It seems completely inferior to WE + Power Attack..

**Marty Silverblade** · Jul 04, 2011, 10:50 PM // 22:50

There is a massive number of skills that aren't worth using. That said, there isn't anything wrong with Cleave, it just doesn't match up with today's standard (it does deserve to be reverted to it's previous damage though). It also suffers from the fact it doesn't offer any unique functionalities that provide further awesomeness (like DSlash and 100B for example).

Bandwagon · Jul 04, 2011, 11:19 PM // 23:19

There are plenty of skills such as Cleave that are in this state, they keep it as is because the live team has only so many resources to devote to the game.

Quote:

But what about skill updates?

Updates to old (and outdated skills) occur when the prof in question in the live team's eyes is considered in need of revision, they then buff the profession and life goes on.

The real question is why did the original Live Team think it would be a good idea to add more and more skills with each campaign addition when they could easily just change around skills already released, ergo limiting redundancies.

Del · Jul 04, 2011, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Most useless skill in the game? are you serious? there are at least a dozen elites less useful than cleave.

Lishy · Jul 05, 2011, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Axe elites as a whole seem a little outdated. I would argue Eviscerate is worth using, but I cannot see the reason to use Triple Chop with its 10 recharge and Decapitate which.. Is just plain impractical outside pvp. Whirling Axe is okay, but faces a conflict against Wild Blow since you would be using Furious Axe anyways to charge it.

Then again, as a whole, axe seems a tiny bit outdated... Any point to skills like Keen Chop?

**Marty Silverblade** · Jul 05, 2011, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Axe is generally not worth using outside of WE. Spiky axe elites become insignificant when buffs make autoattacks significant and you can hit +damage skills on every attack anyway. That said, EFGJack did post one in the sticky that looks interesting. Has micro as expected, but justifies using an axe.

Also, Decapitate is a truly horrible skill.

Reformed · Jul 05, 2011, 12:56 AM // 00:56

It exists because it's the elite skill of justice.

Kunder · Jul 05, 2011, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Cleave is amazing against low level fodder where you can essentially make an extra free attack per turn. Great cleave is nothing but a useless indulgence though it is fun to use.

Ohwait, you meant the elite skill in GW? Yeah, thats shit along with 90% of skills in the game.

Shayne Hawke · Jul 05, 2011, 01:32 AM // 01:32

You've got it backwards.

Cleave is a great skill.

Just about everything else is too great though.

Lanier · Jul 05, 2011, 01:41 AM // 01:41

It's decent in PvE where sustained dps matters. It's not great, but its not bad either. Also in PvE, decapitate really isn't bad at all. Weapon swaps can be used to negate the energy loss, and the adrenaline is built back up quickly with enduring harmony + for great justice. Since these take decapitates downside out of the equation, you are left with a damaging elite. Once again, its not great (dslash, WE, and earthshaker are better), but it certainly isn't bad when used correctly.

If we want to talk about crappy warrior elites, rage of the ntouka is the only one that comes to mind. It is the one warrior elite that I have collected so far that I have been completely unable to form a build for.

Del · Jul 05, 2011, 01:53 AM // 01:53

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ERK-zUhiq8

Essence Snow · Jul 05, 2011, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

It exists because it's the elite skill of justice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ERK-zUhiq8

lol good stuff.....

wilebill · Jul 05, 2011, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Excellent video Del! Really liked that one and I do not like many of them. Fits the thread too!

Lishy · Jul 06, 2011, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Here's my attempt:

8 Strength
12+2+1 Axe Mastery (15)
10+2 Tactics (12)
2 Beast Mastery

The idea is to use it with NRA for DPS, but it still feels inferior to Battle Rage even though it is functionally the same with the exception of Deep Wound.

What if it was used in conjunction with Symbolic Strike? A W/P build might sound like a decent enough idea.

Lanier · Jul 07, 2011, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Why not use Frenzy for your IAS? Thats what I do.

Enduring harmony is particular useful with FGJ in this build because it allows the skill to be spammed every other attack (every attack if under dark fury).

Xenomortis · Jul 07, 2011, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Cleave was for when people didn't know that Eviscerate was better.
I suppose it was once good in PvE but power creep means that it's not exactly competitive.

Lishy · Jul 07, 2011, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Why not use Frenzy for your IAS? Thats what I do.

Enduring harmony is particular useful with FGJ in this build because it allows the skill to be spammed every other attack (every attack if under dark fury).

Sounds like a decent enough strategy. So by having a hero spam Dark Fury with Enduring FGJ, a warrior can spam their +30 dmg cleave on every attack? Sounds interesting when paired with an IAS...

I'm not sure about frenzy though. I do not doubt its usefulness (I've used it in the past!), but I don't feel like microing prot spirit only for it to be stripped.

I will try out that Dark Fury idea, it sounds interesting. This might be a cool team build to actually justify its elite status!

Haggis of Doom · Jul 07, 2011, 05:45 AM // 05:45

^Try Frenzy in HM. You don't need to micro PS anymore than any other build beyond the initial aggro (where you micro PS anyways, Frenzy or not).

Frenzy's downsides are a small price to pay for its effectiveness even back in the h/h era. Since the 7h update warriors who don't use it for the average dungeon/vq simply haven't tried it.

Lishy · Jul 07, 2011, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Well the issue with Frenzy in my opinion is that it is energy based. As a warrior only has 20 energy upon charging into a mob (Unless wearing a high energy set) you must be very careful what skills you choose.

You must also bring a cancel stance, making it a direct competitor to Flail. The difference in efficiency is that when an enemy dies while you are using flail, you must use rush, otherwise there will be a big delay of damage.

Bandwagon · Jul 07, 2011, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Assuming you are using Frenzy 24/7 and keeping it up when it is about to drop, your using 5 energy every 8 seconds IE: 0.625 energy per second. A warrior recovers 2 energy every 3 seconds IE: .666 energy per second.

Obviously you walk a very fine line in terms of sustain but that is where the 20 energy pool comes in, odds are if you mess up once or twice and renew it with 3 seconds remaining or something along those lines, it will not make too much of a difference unless you repeatably spam it whenever Frenzy recharges (even then you have some wiggle room).

This is assuming your Cleaving with every auto attack (no time to use any energy skills anyway).