Curse

morimoto · May 30, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

the primary attribute for a ritualist is spawning. no one but primary rits get this attribute. that said, i believe that all ritualist builds should revolve around using this attribute and in turn, spirits.

builds that do not make use of the spawning attribute and spirits are not good ritualist builds in my opinion.

if a rit is not using spirits or the spawning attribute, then that character is better off selecting a different primary class and playing a rit secondary.

also, i dont feel a minion bomber is a good build for a rit. the spawning attribute makes minions and spirits stronger. why in the world then would you want to kill them off? a rit gets nothing when minions die (unlike a necro). i would think a rit would want his/her minions to live. i mean, that is what the spawning attribute does....it gives minions and spirits more 4% more life per point.

what do i feel is a good rit build? points in spawning. 3 or more spirits, a rez, remaning skills should compliment spirits. ya, this is vague, but this post is not about a specific build. it is that all ritualist builds should make use of the spawning attribute and spirits.

Dahnel · May 30, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

should all rits have blonde hair and blue eyes too ?

morimoto · May 30, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

laf

no, but they should all use spawning and spirits. if they are not, they would be better serverd by having a rit as their secondary.

here's another good example with the monk. their primary is divine favor, its increases the healing they do. a primary monk should never use a build that focuses on smiting. their primary attribute helps out in no way. if a person wants to make heavy use of smiting, a monk secondary would be much better.

some classes have primary attribututes that work well with different builds. energy storage, expertise. some, like the ritualist and monk, do not.

the necro primary, soul reaping, lends itself to having minions. if a necro does not use minions, they are not getting 100% from their primary attribute.

Siren · May 30, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

You're both asinine.

morimoto has the right idea, if only slightly misguided. Spawning is important to Ritualists, yes, but only those using Spirits extensively. Rits using Restoration--the targeted Restoration spells--shouldn't bother with Spawning power. Rits using certain types of targeted Channeling spells shouldn't bother with Spawning power.

If a Rit is doing Spirits without Spawning, that Rit is a fool.

If there's a Mo/Rt using Mend Body and Soul, however, without Spawning, there's no problem with that. Hell, a Rt/Mo using Mend Body and Soul without Spawning isn't all that dumb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

no, but they should all use spawning and spirits. if they are not, they would be better serverd by having a rit as their secondary.

Bull****

Mai · May 30, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

laf

no, but they should all use spawning and spirits. if they are not, they would be better serverd by having a rit as their secondary.

here's another good example with the monk. their primary is divine favor, its increases the healing they do. a primary monk should never use a build that focuses on smiting. their primary attribute helps out in no way. if a person wants to make heavy use of smiting, a monk secondary would be much better.

some classes have primary attribututes that work well with different builds. energy storage, expertise. some, like the ritualist and monk, do not.

the necro primary, soul reaping, lends itself to having minions. if a necro does not use minions, they are not getting 100% from their primary attribute.

You actually made me lol

So not investing in my primary attribute makes me not using 100% from my class. Ever heard of a curses necro in general? Bloodspike necro? How about a tactics war? Being a primary class not only allows the player access to the class primary attb but also to use sup runes and able to do more damage than just having it as a secondary.

Maybe...No I retract that..You are a fool for thinking that classes like necro need to be only a MM and that players have to form into generic builds.

bushe · May 30, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

ah so runes armor and energy are unimportant. Got it!

SnipiousMax · May 30, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

16 in any one attribute is normally better than 12 in any one attribute.

holden · May 30, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahnel

should all rits have blonde hair and blue eyes too ?

l o l

morimoto · May 30, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

why on earth would anyone want to make a rit/X and not use spirits? the ritualist primary attribute makes spirits stronger! if you dont use spirits, then you dont need points into spawning. if you dont put points into spawning, then that person could make a more powerful character by picking a different class and taking rit as a secondary.

by selecting a different class as primary and taking rit as a secondary, that person will get the benefit of a different primary attribute (they arent going to use spawning anyways, might as well have a different profession). maybe one that would better suit the build they want.

you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.

Mai....i am by no means saying that a necro build has to revolve around minions. its just that when things die you see the full power of soul reaping.

x-todd · May 30, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

maybe a person who wants to be a rit wants more than ONE build for his/her rit. maybe someone wants a spirit spammer build AND a Channeling or Restoration build... ON THE SAME character...
I run a spirit spam build and i use spawning but if i want to change to channeling build, i dont need it. so should i make another character... like E/Rt, just for that build.... no.
its all about diversity my friend.

TGgold · May 30, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

why on earth would anyone want to make a rit/X and not use spirits? the ritualist primary attribute makes spirits stronger! if you dont use spirits, then you dont need points into spawning. if you dont put points into spawning, then that person could make a more powerful character by picking a different class and taking rit as a secondary.

by selecting a different class as primary and taking rit as a secondary, that person will get the benefit of a different primary attribute (they arent going to use spawning anyways, might as well have a different profession). maybe one that would better suit the build they want.

you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.

Mai....i am by no means saying that a necro build has to revolve around minions. its just that when things die you see the full power of soul reaping.

Actually...you're pretty much wrong.

Rits get to use their rit runes and armor. Now, maybe it's just me, but playing a restoration rit (without spawning) I feel I'm more effiecient with a 16 in restoration than a N/Rt with a 12 in it and an 8 in SR.
IE: RUNES AND ARMOR are important too.

Hollerith · May 30, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Right, the reason I chose the Rt primary was for the runes, plain & simple. The inherent effect of Spawning seems a bit weak to me (although I would say high Spawning is needed for optimal use of Shelter/Union/etc). However, I am happy that as a Rt primary, I have access to augment the skills in Spawning. Furthermore, I've used spiritless builds, and enjoy the 16 in Channeling as opposed to 12.

Even as spirit artillery, I usually only have enough in Spawning to make Boon of Creation give me 5 energy back. I'd rather my spirits deal ~100% more damage than be able to take 40% more from foes.

And yes, a N bomber is much better suited than a Rt.

LaserLight · May 31, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Morimoto, you're completely ignoring the almost game-breaking advantage of this class - that being the incredible versatility it has. A Ritualist primary can defend, attack, run, heal, the works, on one skillbar. Channeling and Communing runes are, in and of themselves, worth a primary slot. What you're advertising is that all primary Ritualists should be Spirit-laden ghost tanks, and that's just not true.

Exhibit A:

Dhark Spirit Sakura

Chanelling 11 (14)
Communing 9 (10)
Spawning 8 (9)
Air 8

Ritual Lord [E]
Union
Shelter
Spirit Burn
Rupture Soul
Windborne Speed
Blinding Flash
ReSig/Flesh of my Flesh (depending on situation)

My hybrid Protection/Damage-Dealing/Flagging Ritualist. Has two lousy Spirits and only uses Spawning for Ritual Lord to keep them up. Otherwise I'd gladly use my Ritualist primary with nothing but Communing, Channeling, and Air, since Communing and Channeling are superb lines more than deserving of Rune support.

This is, by the way, one of the more popular characters in my guild's GvG runs.

Two April Mornings · May 31, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

why on earth would anyone want to make a rit/X and not use spirits? the ritualist primary attribute makes spirits stronger! if you dont use spirits, then you dont need points into spawning. if you dont put points into spawning, then that person could make a more powerful character by picking a different class and taking rit as a secondary.

by selecting a different class as primary and taking rit as a secondary, that person will get the benefit of a different primary attribute (they arent going to use spawning anyways, might as well have a different profession). maybe one that would better suit the build they want.

you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.

Mai....i am by no means saying that a necro build has to revolve around minions. its just that when things die you see the full power of soul reaping.

/autoflame

[SARCASM] I mean sheesh, all mesmers need mantra of recovery as their elite, and they all need 16 fast cast to use those 1/4 second skills [/SARCASM]

Vahn Roi · Jun 01, 2006, 01:10 PM // 13:10

What if you don't use any spirits? Then the attribute is a waste aye?

mahousaru · Jun 01, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

I play a rit primary because I like the boobies

Tainek · Jun 01, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

If this was the case, then we shouldnt be seeing any warriors, and the strength attribue is Pure Trash

morimoto · Jun 01, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahn Roi

What if you don't use any spirits? Then the attribute is a waste aye?

that is what i am saying. if a ritualist is not using spirits, then there is no need to put points into spawning. spawning is the primary attribute and only primary ritualists get that attribute.

you are essentially shorting yourself one attribute.

Tainek · Jun 01, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by morimoto

that is what i am saying. if a ritualist is not using spirits, then there is no need to put points into spawning. spawning is the primary attribute and only primary ritualists get that attribute.

you are essentially shorting yourself one attribute.

so what your saying is , if your not using spirits, dont put points into spawning power

while were at it, if you dont have any air magic spells, dont put points into air magic!

/Sarcasm Genious! /Sarcasm

Pick Me · Jun 01, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Yes, that's exactly correct.

But that is not the only reason for being a ritualist.

The same arguement can be made for any class. Why on earth would you use a warrior without maxing out on Strength? Because you would put points into a weapon and tactics, and remaining into Strength.

Why would a Ranger not have 16 expertise? Because you may need to heal yourself (a ranger without a bow, why become a ranger then?). Trappers do not use a bow, but do require maxing out on Wilderness Survival and then Expertise. A Bowmaster requires Marksmanship, but what about Expertise? Sure, put some points into it, but you also need healing too.

An elementalist/Monk - What kind of Elementalist doesn't have elemental skills, right?

Warrior/Ranger - why would a warrior use poison?

The reason for having a second profession is so you can use skills from both, instead of having the use from only 1 profession. Why max out on Spawning if you aren't going to use spirits? Well, who said you weren't. The problem is if you want massive healing or massive damage, or a little of protection with healing and something that can do some nice damage, you may be willing to sacrifice spirit health for other things.

Case in point, a warrior is willing to give up some strength for defense (and increase in healing). An elementalist may be restricted to heal instead of nuking (group can't find a healer in a PUG PvE game). Or a Ritualist decides to use Channelling spells and Restoration spells to provide offense and help monks out on healing. The spirits created don't need to last and are used to both provide healing and dish out damage (some spells will do damge for each spirit created or that are already out). Spirits can be just a means to an end.

So, if thats the case, then why be a primary Ritualist? The looks? The moves? The dances? The backup dancers? The armor? The weapons? The fact that if you need to or want to, you can have more points into Spawning. You shouldn't be forced to max out Spawning just because you are a Ritualist. If you were forced to max out Spawning, then you wouldn't have Mesmer/Warriors fighting melee. You wouldn't have Elementalist/Monks healing, and you certainly won't find A/R using a bow. Why? Because Elementalists are supposed to heal, Mesmers aren't supposed to fight with swords, Assassins aren't supposed to use a bow. But they can.

So, I would say that your argument of Spawning power is only for Ritualists, and thus must be maxed out by Ritualists is not valid. If you can use runes for your 2ndary class, then perhaps you might have a small argument, but I don't think you can.