Curse

frickaline · Jun 06, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

he did. because there aren't very many monks around cantha and groups grow impatient.

i agree with arrow that it's his group and it all falls on him. if he's loaded down with ele's and necros and short on healing then why wouldn't he ask the rit to change up? more than that the Rit should know coming into a full group that he's gonna be asked to heal. imo he should offer what service he can provide to better help the team.

yes he can kill and blow shit up but he can throw around 5 energy, 100 point heals and remove conditions as well. and that's what the team needed.

arrow's delivery was harsh and comes across as 'i know more than you so F off'. but the Rit saw the numbers in the group and the lack of healing and should have changed to restoration before being asked. its not a 'i have a bigger penis than an ele' game. it's a team game. i would rather play for a dic that knows what he's doing than someone just inviting people and hoping for the best.

But the question is, why is it that the rit is asked (ordered) to change specifically and no one else (and subsequently kicked). Other character classes can spec to healing from a secondary class. If its a team scenario, explain why the rit needs to adjust and no one else.

This should not have been the case of 'can the rit heal' but should have been the case of 'who in the team can help us to heal'. The guy was arrogant and rude to assume that this one person should shoulder this responsibility so that the rest of the party can carry 8 attack skills (who needs res right? thats for monks ....).

Cryptic Quote · Jun 06, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

I play a Rt/N, and one of the best parts about that class is I CAN FILL ANY ROLE... A ritualist is asked to change roles dependent on the availablity of other classes, with having Necro as a secondary, I open up MM(boon, explosive growth) as an option. One of the things that I find upsetting about so many ritualisists IS the fact they don't want to adjust or coordnate their builds w/the group. Yes Rits can damage, and if you lack an Ele they fit that role nicely, yes Rits can Heal/prot, and if you lack a monk they FIT THAT ROLE NICLY, w/necro secondary, YES THEY CAN MM, and YES THEY CAN FIT THAT ROLE NICLY... THATS WHAT THEY WERE DESIGNED FOR, we are the jack of all trades, lets start acting like it... I switch builds DAILY, usually prot/healz, at times im the MM, other times i play hodgepodge roles to fill gaps that we are lacking(mixing and matching damage/healing, or MM support). For the all the people who were calling the starter of this fourm a newb, yes he may have been ignoratent to the fact that the Rt's can deal damage, but the Rt was ignoratant to the fact that HE CAN FILL THAT ROLE AND THATS WHAT WAS NEEDED... From one rit to another, I would have kicked him to... Thank you I'm out!

Cryptic Quote · Jun 06, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickaline

But the question is, why is it that the rit is asked (ordered) to change specifically and no one else (and subsequently kicked). Other character classes can spec to healing from a secondary class. If its a team scenario, explain why the rit needs to adjust and no one else.

This should not have been the case of 'can the rit heal' but should have been the case of 'who in the team can help us to heal'. The guy was arrogant and rude to assume that this one person should shoulder this responsibility so that the rest of the party can carry 8 attack skills (who needs res right? thats for monks ....).

Ask a Wammo To play the role of monk... Ask ANY other class to play the role of monk... there are 2 classes that can subclass monk and run it half way decent because of the energy demand, Necros, and Ele's... and even then they can't come CLOSE to what a real monk or Rit healer can do. Rit's need to be willing to adjust BECAUSE we are so versitile, read my above blurb. Also, those afor mentioned classes can be 3 times more valuable in any group if they focus on the primary(they can deal more damage then they could ever hope to try and heal). Rits can deal damage, BUT they are designed with the intention of being ABLE to heal EQUALLY EFFECTIVLY. If the rit in question would have been willing to either hybrid build protz or healz with his channeling, he might have had a group... HE initiated his own fate, not the group leader.

holden · Jun 06, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickaline

But the question is, why is it that the rit is asked (ordered) to change specifically and no one else (and subsequently kicked). Other character classes can spec to healing from a secondary class. If its a team scenario, explain why the rit needs to adjust and no one else.

because the Rit is the second best healer in the game.

he was sort of ordered and i agree that was lame. but he was kicked because of the noob blast i'd imagine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickaline

This should not have been the case of 'can the rit heal' but should have been the case of 'who in the team can help us to heal'. The guy was arrogant and rude to assume that this one person should shoulder this responsibility so that the rest of the party can carry 8 attack skills (who needs res right? thats for monks ....).

the necro, the ele....they have no business trying to heal the team. SS is worth more to the team than a necro healing. same with meteor shower and the ele.

i think it's as simple as arrow needed someone to heal the team, not someone to do more damage. the Rit was unwilling to change. i agree, how arrow went about it was weak but i still say the the Rit knows he can heal 2nd best and needs to be prepared for groups asking him to do so.

i agree with everything cryptic said.

Tainek · Jun 06, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

because the Rit is the second best healer in the game.

he was sort of ordered and i agree that was lame. but he was kicked because of the noob blast i'd imagine.

the necro, the ele....they have no business trying to heal the team. SS is worth more to the team than a necro healing. same with meteor shower and the ele.

i think it's as simple as arrow needed someone to heal the team, not someone to do more damage. the Rit was unwilling to change. i agree, how arrow went about it was weak but i still say the the Rit knows he can heal 2nd best and needs to be prepared for groups asking him to do so.

i agree with everything cryptic said.

Speak for yourself, i find my ritualist to out-do many monks on my team, weapon of warding being the primary reason (its a very effective prot skill, but you dont have to split attributes. The ability to throw down recuperation is anouther reason (same line, but its mending on 8-12 players)

Ritualist healings more about the players skill, while monk healing is more about limits on the class, a bad monk healer is miles better than a bad ritualist healer, and the same for an average of both , with two both very talented healers, the difference becomes irrelivant either way

Generally Monk= Better at healing One or two targets intensibly, whereas a rit can make a better job of the whole party

Rit = More HPS (heal per second, sustained), monk= More Heal in a spike

However i agree people should be flexible, i run 9 different builds depending on need

lightblade · Jun 06, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Rt is still quiet new to us and not many player knows how to handle them.

Let us compare the playing style of Monk, Elementist, and Ritualist:
- Monk: Basically, "Heal whoever have the lowest hp". It's not hard for monk to find their target and just press the button.
- Elementist: Same as monk, it not hard for them to find their target either. Either follow the called target, or just run in and do the flame bursts as you see fit.
- Ritualist: Ritualists are VERY hard to play!!! Because you need to carefully pick your target. Spirit Rift have small area that you need to find enemies that's close together; Lamenation need nearby spirit/corpse; Channeled Strike need to hold item to be effective; Essence Strike need to have spirit nearby to gain energy; Rupture Soul need to have spirit; Weapon of Warding need to have enemy doing "attacks" on the target; Weapon of Resilience need to have hex or condition; and we can go on and on with this. The point is, over 80% of Ritualist's non-ritual skills require some kind of pre-condition to make them work.

So yes, it call depend on the player

Wyrmdog · Jun 07, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrowlord

During grouping for a mission some ritualist wanted to join my party. I asked him whats his spec, he answered channeling. I orderd him to respec to healing + prot, he called me a newb and said that rits can dmg as well as eles ( of course he got a kick ).

True ?

Was your intent to troll or did you really want to know if Ritualists could be damage dealers? If the latter, your responses belie your intent. Admittedly, people jumped on your choice of terminology and the way you handled the incident. That's not likely to help you stay civil.

The issue is whether you wanted to know if Ritualists could be effective damage-dealers, right? Or did you just want to gripe about someone who wouldn't do what you wanted? If the former, try to take a step back and learn about the class. If the latter, then this is the wrong forum. That's a teaming issue, not a class issue.

frickaline · Jun 07, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryptic Quote

Ask a Wammo To play the role of monk... Ask ANY other class to play the role of monk... there are 2 classes that can subclass monk and run it half way decent because of the energy demand, Necros, and Ele's... and even then they can't come CLOSE to what a real monk or Rit healer can do. Rit's need to be willing to adjust BECAUSE we are so versitile, read my above blurb. Also, those afor mentioned classes can be 3 times more valuable in any group if they focus on the primary(they can deal more damage then they could ever hope to try and heal). Rits can deal damage, BUT they are designed with the intention of being ABLE to heal EQUALLY EFFECTIVLY. If the rit in question would have been willing to either hybrid build protz or healz with his channeling, he might have had a group... HE initiated his own fate, not the group leader.

I dont even remotely buy this. Any class can heal in pve. A wammo can just balth spirit himself, throw on bonettis now and again, and heal just fine in pve. A mes can fast cast inspiration heal. Lots of classes can heal, they simply choose not to.

But ok, perhaps the rit is the superior healer. They are also the superior damager so .....

Again I ask ... why the rit was ordered to change and NO one else. Its simply a bad team attitude, plain and simple.

sinican · Jun 07, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickaline

I dont even remotely buy this. Any class can heal in pve. A wammo can just balth spirit himself, throw on bonettis now and again, and heal just fine in pve. A mes can fast cast inspiration heal. Lots of classes can heal, they simply choose not to.

But ok, perhaps the rit is the superior healer. They are also the superior damager so .....

Again I ask ... why the rit was ordered to change and NO one else. Its simply a bad team attitude, plain and simple.

i believe the point is this... a rit can be pretty much any substitute in this game...

i welcome this myself on my rit and always ask when joining a group if im wanted for healing or not... this is my choice because i want "my" group to survive i dont NEED to be a healer or a chaneler but i want to be whatever fills the group the best...

this issue has become more about the ignorance of the OP not what a rit can or cant do... the rit can be almost anything the class itself is perfect for being a pure secondary class with rit support skills as primary at the same time being able to be pure rit...

noboy liked the whole "ordered" part and this is what this stupid thread has become all about...

so the simple answer to this all is YES a rit can be an excelent dmg dealer with certain builds and under some circumstances can do devistating dmg...

i like how my rit can be both simultaniousely and be effective at both...

i take 3 chan spells for high spike a dmg mitigation spell and restoration spells for self support and excelent healing support for others...

i have 2 classes essentually without spreading myself to thin either direction... i can just stop dmging and heal for this particular mob and then go pure dmg for the next... etc...

typically what i do is spike till im outa energy... which is usually 4-5 essence/rift/channeled chains then start healing/ressing... i use this build if im with a group that already has healer(s)... otherwise i go prot/healer

mighty/union/shelter/displacement/soothing/mendbody/weaponofwarding/Fleshofmyflesh

Cryptic Quote · Jun 07, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickaline

I dont even remotely buy this. Any class can heal in pve. A wammo can just balth spirit himself, throw on bonettis now and again, and heal just fine in pve. A mes can fast cast inspiration heal. Lots of classes can heal, they simply choose not to.

But ok, perhaps the rit is the superior healer. They are also the superior damager so .....

Again I ask ... why the rit was ordered to change and NO one else. Its simply a bad team attitude, plain and simple.

You missed the point... any1 can SELF heal effectivly, which does take alot of pressure off the monk, but when it comes to PARTY healing, a rit actually does a better job then a monk, and a mesmer fast casting inspiration healz is only healing HIMSELF, not the PARTY... Diversify yourself as a rit, be willing to fill the role you were intended, the Jack of all trades of Magic, its like a ranger, you can melee if ya want, you can go ranged, you can trap, you can maintain your own health, you can use spirits, you can degen, spike, the Jack of all Trades of Physical/Conditions... They made the Rt Specialized in so much for a reason, I agree that the origin of this post probably was in the wrong spot, BUT I still see the Rt as failing to do what the party needed, and this is a PARTY based game, you have to be willing to cater yourself to the needs of a party, ESPECIALLY with a class as diverse and well rounded as a Rit... plane and simple. Its the same with a ranger, if a ranger joins a group, brings winnowing, fav winds, and EoE for his build, because it makes him as an individual strong, thats fine, but if he is unwilling to coordnate with his team, he may have just rendered your teams MM useless... Every choice you make for your build affects what groups you will be able to join, how effective you are as an individual, and how effective you are in a group... with out coordnation you are destined to fail at this game because you cant just Lvl to ungodly proportions, on the contrary, EVERYTHING else is LvLed to ungodly proportions in comparision, so without coordnation, your done for.

ryguy · Jun 07, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrowlord

During grouping for a mission some ritualist wanted to join my party. I asked him whats his spec, he answered channeling. I orderd him to respec to healing + prot, he called me a newb and said that rits can dmg as well as eles ( of course he got a kick ).

True ?

Well, if you call someone a "newb" without knowing the class, you need to be nailed to a cross and stoned to death.

Pick Me · Jun 07, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryguy

Well, if you call someone a "newb" without knowing the class, you need to be nailed to a cross and stoned to death.

I think you missed the quote. The Rit called Arrowlord a newb. From what I've gathered from all of the posts,

Arrowlord is the leader of a PUG. (S)He's got an ele, 2 monks, warriors, rangers, etc. Missing was a Rit to help heal and protect. This is Arrowlord's consistant group makeup, thats the way Arrowlord wants it, and it always seems to work. I don't think Arrowlord was disrespecting the damage capabilities of a Ritualist, but wanted extra healing and protection for the group. I still think Arrowlord was rude about "demanding" someone the change their stats, prior to joining (or even after joining), but Arrowlord was the leader of the group, and as such, it is the duty and responsibility of the leader to do what is best for the group. So, Arrowlord was well within his/her rights to kick the Ritualist out for not helping the team.

Anyone who says everyone should heal themselves so the monk doesn't work too hard has had too many bad experiences with poor monks. Everyone should bring 1 rez and 1 healing ability, but only use it as a last resort. Example would be:

Monk: My energy is 1 of 45. (People should start self-healing, because monk won't be able to)

Warrior: My health is 100 of 500
Monk: My health is 50 of 450 (Monk has to heal self, so Warrior better heal self too)

Monks and Ritualists can heal, protect, and even go offense (I've been in a group of 4 monks, 2 heal, 1 protect, 1 smite).

In summation, Arrowlord was in the right to kick out the Ritualist. The Ritualist had now right calling Arrowlord a newb. The Ritualist should have at least compromised with Arrowlord's demands. But Arrowlord should have asked, and not demanded the Ritualist to change.

frickaline · Jun 07, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryptic Quote

You missed the point... any1 can SELF heal effectivly, which does take alot of pressure off the monk, but when it comes to PARTY healing, a rit actually does a better job then a monk, and a mesmer fast casting inspiration healz is only healing HIMSELF, not the PARTY... Diversify yourself as a rit, be willing to fill the role you were intended, the Jack of all trades of Magic, its like a ranger, you can melee if ya want, you can go ranged, you can trap, you can maintain your own health, you can use spirits, you can degen, spike, the Jack of all Trades of Physical/Conditions... They made the Rt Specialized in so much for a reason, I agree that the origin of this post probably was in the wrong spot, BUT I still see the Rt as failing to do what the party needed, and this is a PARTY based game, you have to be willing to cater yourself to the needs of a party, ESPECIALLY with a class as diverse and well rounded as a Rit... plane and simple. Its the same with a ranger, if a ranger joins a group, brings winnowing, fav winds, and EoE for his build, because it makes him as an individual strong, thats fine, but if he is unwilling to coordnate with his team, he may have just rendered your teams MM useless... Every choice you make for your build affects what groups you will be able to join, how effective you are as an individual, and how effective you are in a group... with out coordnation you are destined to fail at this game because you cant just Lvl to ungodly proportions, on the contrary, EVERYTHING else is LvLed to ungodly proportions in comparision, so without coordnation, your done for.

And you in turn miss my point. Its pve. Its not pvp. So what if 1 char is more efficient than another, that doesnt prohibit the job from being performed by another more team-oriented player.

Any class can heal for the party, they simply need to choose to do so.

Llednar · Jun 11, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrowlord

And I havbe no reason to take some screaming soloer. When Im the leader, its my way or its not.

The point is he doesnt want to cooperate so he isnt going with me.

In any party i always take 2x monk + 1 ele with wards or rit. And for fu cking sake cant u people understand that i have no duty to take someone ? I can kick him with any reason, i may not like color of his armor, or just dont like the way he speaks. My choice.

I just don't understand people like you, Power thirsty, bossy, ignorant people.

How you manage to lead any mission group I'll never know. Lastly, people like you ruin games, they're supposed to be fun, not some kinda drill squad.

fatogreboy · Jun 11, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

wow, this thread is getting long. One thing to remember, when playing a game that involves massive amounts of anonymous people on the internet, you will encounter some people that don't know how to play the game, or will simply disagree with you. I am used to this as it happens to me on a daily basis. The other day a guy wouldn't let me into his group that needed a MM because I was a rit and he said they can't MM

I took my rit through almost all of factions as a MM, so I know that this build rocks. I try not to take things too seriously, it's a game... kids play it too

snoozing · Jun 11, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

not commenting on the attitude as that seems clear, but maybe he should have just advertised "7/8 need HEALER, self invite."

from experience, i've never gotten the wrong player if i advertised correctly. sometimes there will be that 1 or 2 people who hope that i would use them but that's not the norm.

often times you need to be more clear in what you want.

Skuld · Jun 11, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Wow arrow you are an arrogant prat..

Ryn Tyn Tyn · Jun 11, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

I like playing the Rit because I can do damage and support and I frequently switch out my build for fun.

If Arrowlord invited me to team and then asked me to switch my build, I might have to help support the team make-up better. But had he "ordered" me, then I would have likely refused, simply because of being told to do it like some errant child.

It's possible that he came to the Rit forum to see if he was wrong in his assumpsions of Rits and damage. It's also possible that he will give a Rit Channeler a try in his teams from now on when he has a damage dealing spot to fill too. He doesn't strike me as a moron, more just a bit on the rude side.

Frankly aside from his rudeness I would like to be on his team in a quest/mission since he apparently tries to set up the best teams he can for the success of the team. At least he is willing to step up and "lead" which is far more than most PUGs ever get.

arrowlord · Jun 11, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

We moved from damaging rits to my person but whatever...

The rit got kick because of flaming me, not because of being channeling rit. If he was a mature player he would explain why is he playing that build and dont want to change - any person screaming and calling of noobs around is a treat for the party, you dont ever know in what moments he will decide that he is a good tank and aggro some three more groups or just leave because he wants to go play counter-strike or something.

sinican · Jun 11, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrowlord

We moved from damaging rits to my person but whatever...

The rit got kick because of flaming me, not because of being channeling rit. If he was a mature player he would explain why is he playing that build and dont want to change - any person screaming and calling of noobs around is a treat for the party, you dont ever know in what moments he will decide that he is a good tank and aggro some three more groups or just leave because he wants to go play counter-strike or something.

this thread became about you when your origional post asked the question if whether or not Rits where good damagers...

well when people started to confirm that they are... you began to contest everything that everyone was saying...

this became about you when your personality prevented you from accepting the turthfull answers people where giving you and instead had to constantly try to be right and make everyone else wrong...

it is your party people have alwready acknowleged that.. you can kick whoever you want to... if your a jerk i could give 2 shits you wanted a healer thats fine the rit you picked up was a channeler...

he didnt like you demanding him to change (im assuming, he coulda been a jerk too, who cares)

then you came on here asked a question and refused to accept the answer...

and the answer is... rits are good dmger healers protectors any combination... they work well with any secondary prof and they are a great secondary for any primary...

start asking about the asn class and ill bitch all day