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Jun 05, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52
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#101 | ||
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jun 2006
Guild: Legion of Zeal [Zeal]
Profession: W/
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Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by RoadKill97; Jun 05, 2007 at 08:57 PM // 20:57.. |
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Jun 05, 2007, 09:46 PM // 21:46
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#102 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tonigth we dine in.....CUSTODY
Guild: Moe wine plz
Profession: R/
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Quote:
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Jun 05, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21
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#103 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle
Guild: Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF]
Profession: R/
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*cough* Rt/Mo *cough*
8 protection prayers 10+1 channeling 12+1+3 restoration [skill]Bloodsong[/skill] or [skill]Life[/skill][skill]Spirit Light[/skill][skill]Mend Body and Soul[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill] OR [skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Offering of Spirit[/skill][skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill][skill]Spirit Transfer[/skill] swap in some smite hex or something, or some condition removal as needed. whyzit gotta be one or the other? why not both? 'no YOU shut up' ;P Last edited by lennymon; Jun 05, 2007 at 10:23 PM // 22:23.. |
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Jun 05, 2007, 10:48 PM // 22:48
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#104 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tonigth we dine in.....CUSTODY
Guild: Moe wine plz
Profession: R/
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-Double post-
sorry =( Last edited by Toilet Oni; Jun 05, 2007 at 10:52 PM // 22:52.. |
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Jun 05, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50
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#105 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tonigth we dine in.....CUSTODY
Guild: Moe wine plz
Profession: R/
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Quote:
i know im beign a d**k head  but rt healers dont work as good in practice as people say they do.
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Jun 05, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03
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#106 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Mar 2006
Guild: [ToA]
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Wha??? I love running resto on my rit. Spirit light/soothing memorys/MendBaS are all great non elite spells which cost 5e and heal over 100hp with 15 resto. Throw in some weapon spells, mighty was visorun, maybey life and recuperation, and you got a pretty good healer. I usualy take Preservation and a few heals into AB and defent cap points. it defeats most teams, and most sins dont know i use wow, and they dont use expose
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Jun 05, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16
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#107 | |
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Whiner
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Quote:
funny they dont work seeing as i play one in all the high end elites and GvG -_-. i've yet to see a monk with better built in energy management without having to spec multiple atts than me. (thats for prot too). my resil weapon is invaluble if you know what your team has. bleeding? so what, let the warrior bleed, its just gives him more armor to tank with. the regen will outdo the lil -3 he has, and if something else were to fall on him, MBaS it off. |
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Jun 05, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24
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#108 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle
Guild: Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF]
Profession: R/
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Quote:
To part 1 Yes...yes, you are... sure I have a spirit in the build, wth difference does it make. I can drop a spirit in no time prior to a fight (this IS pve after all) it makes 2 of the 5e heals *considerably* more effective but certainly doesn't destroy my ability to heal if it's gone. and... To part 2 your *opinion* on effectiveness of rt healers is obviously not shared by a majority of GW plyers, but you are welcome to it. Just because you seem to think that having a spirit on a bar gimps Rit healers doesn't mean anyone cares that you think that. Yes, its a 5-10 energy, 3 second cost, but it's more than paid in full by its effect. Now go crusade in the monk thread or something assuming you havent gotten kicked out of there already. Moreover logically, if you seriously think a prot monk can't cover 3 seconds while the healer is dropping a spirit, that certainly doesn't imply that you feel Rit healers are bad, it lends itself more to the implication that rit healer's are better at keeping a party alive than a prot monk.... Which is wrong. If a party is so deep in it that dropping a spirit for 3 seconds will cause a wipe, well, the Rit healer's skillbar should be the *least* of your worries... |
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Jun 06, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25
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#109 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jan 2006
Guild: [Here] | CKOD
Profession: E/R
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@ Toilet Oni: i dont understand what you mean by soul twisting chain? union would be turned into a 1 second cast and recharge instantly, and soul twisting will have 15 secs before you get to kill union again. It is also a stance cast so its not like you have to stop healing to use it... and union really shouldnt die before you have soul twisting back... especially with the current meta being hexes + conditions kill a foe, its not like there will be an amazing amount of straight damage (as opposed to thumpers and such).
@Roadkill97: mend body and soul is basically gift of health with a build in amazingness factor. it would heal for 114 @ 11 healing prayers (which for a hybrid, IMO, is a lot of points) and MB&S is 115 @ 15 restoration (I was trying to get close numbers). When i hybrid i usually have ~90 health heal in GoH. When i play rit restore i usually have ~14 in restoration, which will have MB&S over 100 health heal. They will practically be the same with ~10 less health in MB&S, except one is capable of removing a condition. I never leave home without GoH, i never leave home without MB&S. I agree recovery is not exactly the absolute best argument for a condition heal... but it does make a mockery of SF teams. There really is no comparison to Restore Condition. That skill is a staple of all builds everywhere. Monks win the condition removal, hands down. Hexes, on the other hand, are more tricky. giving +24 armor (thats a hell of a lot, btw) and +6 regen is very useful and amazing in general... but if its a hex like spoil victor, faithheartedness, RM youre going to want to get rid of them. This is where Divert Hexes comes into play. You could play Convert Hexes on a rit and make some interesting builds, especially with eurohex and other havoc wreaking hex builds out there. Now resilient weapon is still awesome with its +24 armor and over 200 health heal if you keep the condition/hex... but do you want to do that? I, personally, would just give a rit convert hexes and have a prot hybrid in the background with holy veil or deny hexes. Divert hexes is not exactly cheap with 10 energy and a 1 sec cast, but recharges in 1/4 the time convert does. But when are you going to be using divert hexes just to get rid of 1 hex? not often. When are you going to be using it? when the team is built specifically for hexes. Then youre going to be wishing you could remove more hexes than Divert's limit (even if you could youll be totally drained from 10 energy casts)... which is where convert shines. rit + convert + resilient weapon = win. @mekkakat: mind sharing your build with us? im interested... unless its a guild secret :O @Lennymon: youer arguments are useful in showing the pve side, yes, but i think this thread has delved into pvp and is not going to be going back to pve anytime soon, because you could seriously heal with anything in pve, face it. I think everyone has realized that in pve there is no difference as to what is healing you, just as long as they dont let you die. red bars go up = good. 
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Jun 06, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57
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#110 | |||
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Grotto Attendant
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in the midline
Profession: E/Mo
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Quote:
But it is inevitable that Hexes and conditions will stick (preps like apply poison, and cover hexes like Parasitic bond get through Restore condition and Divert Hexes respectively) and that means Dwayna's Kiss and Words of Comfort blow the Ritualist heals out of the water. BUT what people fail to realize is most monks Preprot and spike heal with Holy Haste in 1/2 second. Ritualists only have Wielder's Boon that casts fast. Quote:
Also Reversal of Fortune/Prot spirit/spammable prots in general suck without Divine Favor (less so on a Dervish because there is energy return). Essentially you prot without any of the healing you get from Divine Favor. Prot is nice, but what sucks about prot is you gotta spec into Gift of Health (even if you run ZB/BL because of the bastard, signet of humility). About Spirit Light. I found Spirit Transfer is much more efficient since you usually use a high powered heal for spike heal, and 1/4 second cast is favorable. Quote:
I disagree about Recovery, Recovery is really bad even against SF teams. Why? Smart SFers will just nuke the spirit with one hit from a non burning spell. As for Convert Hexes, why not use Ghostly haste/Weapon of Quickening, if you're probably going to be laying some points into Spawning/Communing. |
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Jun 06, 2007, 01:28 AM // 01:28
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#111 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jan 2006
Guild: [Here] | CKOD
Profession: E/R
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@LifeInfusion: i meant GoH on a monk and MB&S on a rit, just another comparison because people dont like MB&S but think that hybrids rock even though they are practically the same spell...
im not certain about running ghostly haste. its an ench, and it requires a spirit (lose-lose). first im trying to get as far away from 'spirits are crucial' in a pvp build. Were trying to make the ritualist more versatile, not less mobile. Weapon of quickening is nice because you can keep it on 2 people, but also its elite and requires a good investment in communing to make it worth it, and atm im trying to get people to understand the usefulness of soul twisting. also bloodsong has changed to 5 energy and 30(?) sec recharge and is in the channeling line. (and yes, recovery is not exactly useful... at all) @everyone... what kind of energy management that is non elite that makes a rit shine? im still trying to make a pvp build and all im seeing so far is essence strike and renewing memories... not exactly amazing |
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Jun 06, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23
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#112 | |
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Whiner
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Quote:
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Jun 06, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46
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#113 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle
Guild: Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF]
Profession: R/
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I agree that vengeful is better there than RoF, and bloodsong is a 5e, 3s, 30s recharge, just not updated in the icon, but you'd know that if you played rit, yeah? The point is that life is more mobile, but dies faster and costs more energy. Bloodsong, which you are specced for costs less, heals itself somewhat, allowing it to fuel spirit transfer to answer your question.
Prot spirit could easily and simply be replaced with shelter. My point wasnt that that build was that great, as I tried to say, but that theres no reason why rits cant delve into monk attribute lines or any other profession as needed. We all get 2 professions for a reason, to give us the opportunity should we so choose to overcome any weaknesses from our primary profession. The fact that this heated debate has delved into pvp doesnt change the fact that this is still primarily a pve forum yes? So the question is which is better at what keeping folks alive monks or rits? Well, who cares realistically if you only look at healing vs restoration. Yeah Restoration is more flexible than healing and has biggy heals for less energy, but neither exists in a vacuum. Every single profession has strengths and weaknesses, the question isn't which is best, but how do you cope with stuff with what you got. Asking which is best is like one of my favorite stupid Q&A and Farming forum topic: 'Wuts best way to make money fast? need help!!!!111!' if you see my point. Why is everyone trying to get away from spirits, really? Ritualists are at their best when they have them and/or are utilizing held items. Just make a good skillbar and run with it. Why wouldn't you want to make the strongest Rit you can be that restoration, channeling, spirit spamming or all of the above? |
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Jun 06, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13
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#114 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Mar 2006
Guild: [ToA]
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Also, who could forget about the resiliant Martyr? One person with all the conditions on them, and them being able to heal themselfs. Also, now ias i look at it, i see something really nice, as somewhat covered above. Vengefull weapon acts like Rof, but its lifesetealing and it always heals for the same amount.
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Jun 06, 2007, 12:48 PM // 12:48
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#115 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London, UK
Guild: Rite Of Passage [RP]
Profession: E/Mo
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RoF negates damage (upto it's heal amount) and heals even without DF. Vengeful only steals life but doesn't negate any damage. this life steal happens 'after' the initial damage. If the initial damage kills you you will lose the opportunity to steal life.
In short, RoF can save you from death. Vengeful can not. RoF is better than Vengeful Weapon. Divine favour or not. I'm a fan of both but these are the facts... |
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Jun 06, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55
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#116 | ||||
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jun 2006
Guild: Legion of Zeal [Zeal]
Profession: W/
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Quote:
Quote:
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Weapon of Warding is just better than Resilient Weapon for protecting someone who's getting trashed, and it's unconditional. And, if the +24 armor is what you want (for against eles, maybe), there are a lot better skills to provide extra armor or damage prevention, such as "Watch Yourself!" and Shield of Absorption. I know very well those aren't rit skills, but this is supposed to be a team game after all. Quote:
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Jun 06, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46
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#117 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tonigth we dine in.....CUSTODY
Guild: Moe wine plz
Profession: R/
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YES RT's got great heling spells an stuff, but healing isnt the only aspect we need to consider in the "can the rt replace a monk" debate. the abillity to make your hp stay high is just as or mabye more important than the superbig heals.
lets say that a shock-axe warrior is attacking you. Your weapon of warding aint recharged, and you got no choise but to heal the dmg. A shock axe warrior got no problem dealing ~200dmg in 5 seconds. You heal the dmg with spirit light, the war knocks you down and hit evisc+executioners, thats another ~200 dmg+deep wound, when you get up you use VW...well VW dont help much when that axe hit you and do another 60dmg. You may not die but you and your team got a taste of the ultimate pressure. as for the monk, he will simply throw SoA, PS or SB on himself and the warrior is forced to move on to another target, unless its a stupid warrior... And ofc, im talking about pvp. im sure RT works great in pve, all hands down
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Jun 06, 2007, 02:09 PM // 14:09
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#118 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2005
Guild: Flying Gophers
Profession: Rt/P
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Of course, is I saw a showck warrior running towards me.
Weapon of Warding. (Now I have 75AL, 4 regen, and a 50% chance to block attacks). That seems to put a dent in that chain of yours, doesn't it? I enjoy using both resilient weapon and weapon of warding, since they both have their purposes. I use resilient as a pre-prot in hex/condition heavy areas. It works better than Weapon of Warding in MANY cases, plus it has a longer duration and is maintainable on multiple people. Furthermore, because of its long duration, it has great synergy with wielder's boon. I play a resto rit rather frequently, it's all about knowing what to use when. There's no real spamming of skills and hoping for the best, otherwise you'd end up dry. It always annoys me when It will be just me and a monk, and the monk will say "omfg there's no other healer". Then I'll ping my skill bar. And the monk will say again "omfgz, there's no other healer" and leaves. I've been the sole healer for the Gate of Madness before since our monk quit. We still did fine. |
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Jun 06, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33
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#119 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tonigth we dine in.....CUSTODY
Guild: Moe wine plz
Profession: R/
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Quote:
Edit: spelled sense wrong
Last edited by Toilet Oni; Jun 06, 2007 at 02:38 PM // 14:38.. |
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Jun 06, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59
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#120 | |
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The 5th Celestial Boss
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Inverness, Scotland
Guild: The Cult of Scaro [WHO]
Profession: E/
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