Curse

yum · Dec 29, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

I guess no one likes [skill]Spirit's Strength[/skill] since no one is mentioning it. =\

That skills is only good in RA and such. It sux in every other place.

Trylo · Dec 29, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

[skill]Spirit's Strength[/skill]Volley[skill]Warmonger's Weapon[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill]Triple Shot[skill]Nightmare Weapon[/skill]

gogo pve plowing machine

And by "spirit spamming is broken" you mean dead? yes?

horseradish · Dec 29, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Spirit Spamming is alive and well in AB....and PvE...and RA......damn.

Dr Strangelove · Dec 30, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

Spirit Spamming is alive and well in AB....and PvE...and RA......damn.

It's an effective way to farm idiots in RA, but I can't think of any reason to bring it in AB. AB is about moving around and capping as fast as possible, which spirit spammers are amazingly bad at.

In PvE, it's unbelievably slow, even with summon spirits, assassin's promise, or whatever else you might want to bring. I'm sure somebody's going to come scream at me that it works well and is fast, but they're lying and wrong. Disregard them.

Stormlord Alex · Dec 30, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

In PvE, it's unbelievably slow, even with summon spirits, assassin's promise, or whatever else you might want to bring. I'm sure somebody's going to come scream at me that it works well and is fast, but they're lying and wrong. Disregard them.

It works well and it's fast!

I mean, yeeah... I spend an hour setting them up first, but when I pull the mob, boom! Almost as good as Splinter Weapon!

horseradish · Dec 30, 2007, 05:42 AM // 05:42

I often see 4 or 5 spirits floatin' around a shrine. If it's on my side (Luxon), I set up my traps on and around them (cuz I only use my ranger for AB nowadays, and trapping is so much fun and pretty) It hinders enemy advances amazingly. Couple of snare traps and turrets take down melee fast. Eles are another story >__>

spirit of defeat · Dec 30, 2007, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

Spirit Spamming is alive and well in AB....and PvE...and RA......damn.

I used to be better, before the Spirit nerf.....
Especially Protect spirits used to be better.
I wish they fixed the way it somehow so it is better.

frojack · Dec 30, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

I used to be better, before the Spirit nerf.....
Especially Protect spirits used to be better.
I wish they fixed the way it somehow so it is better.

The only way they (anet) could fix spirit spamming would be to make it more focused (active, directed instead of fire and forget), and thus it would need to lose it's 'affect everyone in half-radar range' clause.
Or to be more precise, looking at what they've done to say Shelter, you could consider it like diluting the effectiveness of something to account for it affecting so many allies. Like say imagine Prot Spirit being diluted across an entire team but still retaining it's 'total' power level (it would obviously be pretty shit). To get some power back, you would need to reduce it's focus to a smaller number of allies so the skill can become stronger... Theoretically.

Essentially you could say the strength of such a skill (Shelter) is indirectly proportional to how many allies it affects in terms of balance.

So... The question is; Do you like spirit spamming enough to actually put some work in (using a more dynamic system, whatever that is) and play it more actively? Or do you simply like playing the original over-powered nonsense we had before?

If it is the later, then forget it. That should never be viable. PvE or PvP...

spirit of defeat · Dec 30, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

The only way they (anet) could fix spirit spamming would be to make it more focused (active, directed instead of fire and forget), and thus it would need to lose it's 'affect everyone in half-radar range' clause.
Or to be more precise, looking at what they've done to say Shelter, you could consider it like diluting the effectiveness of something to account for it affecting so many allies. Like say imagine Prot Spirit being diluted across an entire team but still retaining it's 'total' power level (it would obviously be pretty shit). To get some power back, you would need to reduce it's focus to a smaller number of allies so the skill can become stronger... Theoretically.

Essentially you could say the strength of such a skill (Shelter) is indirectly proportional to how many allies it affects in terms of balance.

So... The question is; Do you like spirit spamming enough to actually put some work in (using a more dynamic system, whatever that is) and play it more actively? Or do you simply like playing the original over-powered nonsense we had before?

If it is the later, then forget it. That should never be viable. PvE or PvP...

When I play protect Spirts then I'm already active because I'm non-stop spamming my spirits(Rit Lord) in an order I need them. I'm not as active as a monk, but I need to pay attention what I do.
But when using attack spirits, you simply are passive, just waiting for your spirits to do the work and continuing to respam when dead.
Therefore I'm far more passive.

frojack · Dec 30, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

When I play protect Spirts then I'm already active because I'm non-stop spamming my spirits(Rit Lord) in an order I need them. I'm not as active as a monk, but I need to pay attention what I do.
But when using attack spirits, you simply are passive, just waiting for your spirits to do the work and continuing to respam when dead.
Therefore I'm far more passive.

You misunderstand me...

In a general sense, sure you can call defense spirits active because you actually have to 'do something' to use them. I could also say just pressing keys on my keyboard is also 'active'. That isn't the right context at all.

Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Weapon of Remedy... These are active defense skills. They don't accomplish much if they are not used at the right time within a window of opportunity that is pretty small. Aegis, Defensive Anthem, Shelter etc.... These are passive defense skills.
They are too slow to preempt or react to that window but have a duration that allows them to deal with any potential windows that crop up within that time, while the player does something else or just picks their nose. They are also called 'fire and forget' skills. These skills are generally bad for skill-based games. They can promote lazy play and generally make for a dull experience for all involved.

That's not to say they are completely undesirable. Used in the right, they can offer variety and differing flavour to primarily active game play types(eg. a gun platform in an FPS). The main rule is they can not be 'better' than the active type if things are to be balanced.

Defensive spirits are more or less at the top of the list of skills which broke the rules. They were horrible. They used to allow a ritualist to pre-prot the entire team for very little effort, from half a mile away without a care in the world.

Defense Spirits can not be considered 'active' at all. They were the prime opposite. 5 second creations times were hopeless at catching windows and 60 second durations just reinforced this point more so (regardless of how much hp a spirit had).

They were Ultra-passive, Ultra lazy, and Ultra dull. They can't come back as anything like that...

horseradish · Dec 30, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

*cough cough* off topic *cough wheeze*

frojack · Dec 30, 2007, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Well yes and no...

How effective ritualist spirits are is directly related to how high their hp is (which is what spawning does... wow). So if all of a sudden rit spirits didn't suck on so many levels, there would be more reason to use Rit primary.

Besides, it's not exactly an extensive topic...

horseradish · Dec 31, 2007, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Being able to spec 12+ into the better attribute points is reason enough to make a primary Rit....besides the beautiful armor & weapons, flexibility, and auto-attack pilates.

Solus Spartan · Dec 31, 2007, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Primary rit = [skill]Boon of Creation[/skill]. So worth it

spirit of defeat · Dec 31, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

You misunderstand me...

In a general sense, sure you can call defense spirits active because you actually have to 'do something' to use them. I could also say just pressing keys on my keyboard is also 'active'. That isn't the right context at all.

Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Weapon of Remedy... These are active defense skills. They don't accomplish much if they are not used at the right time within a window of opportunity that is pretty small. Aegis, Defensive Anthem, Shelter etc.... These are passive defense skills.
They are too slow to preempt or react to that window but have a duration that allows them to deal with any potential windows that crop up within that time, while the player does something else or just picks their nose. They are also called 'fire and forget' skills. These skills are generally bad for skill-based games. They can promote lazy play and generally make for a dull experience for all involved.

That's not to say they are completely undesirable. Used in the right, they can offer variety and differing flavour to primarily active game play types(eg. a gun platform in an FPS). The main rule is they can not be 'better' than the active type if things are to be balanced.

Defensive spirits are more or less at the top of the list of skills which broke the rules. They were horrible. They used to allow a ritualist to pre-prot the entire team for very little effort, from half a mile away without a care in the world.

Defense Spirits can not be considered 'active' at all. They were the prime opposite. 5 second creations times were hopeless at catching windows and 60 second durations just reinforced this point more so (regardless of how much hp a spirit had).

They were Ultra-passive, Ultra lazy, and Ultra dull. They can't come back as anything like that...

I agree that a ProtSpirt RT can be a mile away, but I disagree the "Lazy protector part" when Protecting I'm always bussy, spirits die to fast to sit back. I'm always recasting them and keeping an eye on [skill=text]Signet Of Creation[/skill] to keep them as long alive as possible casting it at the right time for max result.

When I play Attack spirits then I only "fire and forget" all I need to worry about is that I don't get killed. There is no tactic just keep [skill=text]Boon Of Creation[/skill]up and summon like hell, even the chance of killing can be evaded cheaply, summon then lure. Starting a battle with a big advantage.

That's why I consider Protect spirits far more active then attack spirits.
I DO agree that spirit spammer never gets really active anyhow, no matter what.

Dr Strangelove · Dec 31, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Also this:

Cosmic Error · Jan 01, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

The biggest advantage of primary ritualists is that they have runes, other than that, their armor is good enough a reason to go primary rit.

Bandaged eyes = Best character design ever.

Chael · Jan 01, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Also this:

*gasp*
The secret is out.

Bargamer · Jan 02, 2008, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Error

Bandaged eyes = Best character design ever.

My eyes are always uncovered, so I can see explosions better. Recently, I got glasses, so now they're all in focus, too!

@Strangeglove: The way they show off their legs when they /dance is nice, too.

On topic: Runes, pretty much. Our Primary is one of those "take it or leave it" dealies. So while it does arguably make us more flexible, it comes at the cost of pure strength. Or so they say.

Biostem · Jan 03, 2008, 05:09 AM // 05:09

So I've been playing my rit for a good many days so far, got her to 20, and I am actually quite impressed. Some of those channeling skills do amazing damage and recharge rather quickly. I've also been having a lot of fun w/ painful bond, bloodsong, and vampirism. I'm also quite partial to agony + spirit boon strike. I am working through the factions campaign so i can get spirit twisting and drop 2 agonies in quick succession...