Curse

blue.rellik · Mar 29, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Why would you bring Shelter and Preservation?

Dr Strangelove · Mar 29, 2008, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

But it also renders Shelter and Preservation near useless.

Which is different how?

Hott Bill · Mar 29, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Enchantments = can be stripped
Weapon Spells = cannot be stripped

Superior?

Master Ketsu · Mar 29, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Only thing rits have on monks is weapon of warding, but beyond thats it's not a good idea to rely on rits as a main. Their abilities are mostly straight heals that lack the utility that monk prot's can do.

C2K · Mar 29, 2008, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Rits don't have good hex control, which monks do. Sure you can splash it via secondary, but monks don't need to do that. While you have to go Rt/Mo or Rt/Me to deal with hexes, monks can go Mo/E for GoLE or Mo/W for stance prot.

Rits are great supporters though, as their style of healing is can be a passive offense as well.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 29, 2008, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2K

Rits don't have good hex control, which monks do.

This is actually why I've stopped taking rits in TA. It feels sort of silly going up against an anti-melee necro and a mesmer with nothing but holy veil to keep the entire team clean. Sure, you can toss expel on a rit, but then you're sacrificing an elite. I've never seen a rit that could use holy veil well, it seems to be tough to watch the enemy hexers with all the other stuff they have on their plates. Warmonger's is nice and all, but I'll take a balthazar's pendulum monk or a paragon over it any day of the week.

moko · Mar 29, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hott Bill

Enchantments = can be stripped
Weapon Spells = cannot be stripped

Superior?

Enchants = can be stacked
Weapon Spells = cannot be stacked

superior?

Quote:

Their abilities are mostly straight heals that lack the utility that monk prot's can do.

this is it and nothing more, i don't know why you keep going over this topic. the rawr healing power a rit can supply isn't even that much better anymore now that WoH was buffed a while ago.

MasterSasori · Apr 02, 2008, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Which is different how?

Preservation and Shelter is gonna get massively owned when protecting the minions.

spirit of defeat · Apr 04, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

if [skill=text]preservation[/skill] would heal the lowest ally it would be a good skill, now it sucks IMO.
It can even "heal" a full health ally

MasterSasori · Apr 09, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

if [skill=text]preservation[/skill] would heal the lowest ally it would be a good skill, now it sucks IMO.
It can even "heal" a full health ally

Even if it were the lowest ally, its use will still be questionable. Often the person with the lowest health isn't the one that needs to be healed. Even more so, I'd prefer if preservation stuck more to party members.

spirit of defeat · Apr 12, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Even if it were the lowest ally, its use will still be questionable. Often the person with the lowest health isn't the one that needs to be healed. Even more so, I'd prefer if preservation stuck more to party members.

well it would be annoying if it was only healing minions because of the lowest health.
but healing random party members also sucks,
combine them, party members only+lowest health.
Please A-net, if necessary lower the healing.....

Age · Apr 12, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

It all depends on how you got your bar set up and who is playing the role.I am on the side of Monk as for Healers Boon.I still use LoD on a few of my templates it only gets used when needed.

I will say this though that Rits are better at healing Sins and Monks are better at healing Warriors up.

JoeKnowMo · Apr 13, 2008, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I will say this though that Rits are better at healing Sins and Monks are better at healing Warriors up.

Care to explain?

MasterSasori · Apr 15, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

well it would be annoying if it was only healing minions because of the lowest health.
but healing random party members also sucks,
combine them, party members only+lowest health.
Please A-net, if necessary lower the healing.....

Preservation is at best a mediocre skill. I wouldn't waste my elite slot on this spirit.

spirit of defeat · Apr 17, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

that's why I suggest these changes.

Age · Apr 17, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

Care to explain?

It is hard to put into word but I just feel that Rits are better at healing Sins.

zling · Apr 17, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

actually carrying an Expel Rit in TA is a pretty good idea. its not like Rits really need their elites to function properly, sort of like Dom Mesmers... the elite is nice and all but you could live without [skill]weapon of remedy[/skill] [skill]offering of spirit[/skill] [skill]caretaker's charge[/skill] etc
you could still be a great Rit hybrid with Ancestor's, Warmonger's, WoW, MbaS, SL, etc and Expel...
Rit provides superior support healing+dmg to a smite monk and Expel>Smite Hex...

toastgodsupreme · Apr 18, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Menace

The whole prot vs. heal argument is completely moot. The only thing that we have to compare these two classes on are their healing abilities. To do otherwise would be like comparing healing prayers to fire magic; of course they're different, because they're completely different classes trying to accomplish two very different things.

But the problem is that Rits get outclassed by a Boon/Prot. Heal monks outclass them with divine favor picking up the slack. And now with HB builds, that's pretty much destroyed any comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Menace

Comparing these two categories, ritualists definitely show a strong advantage in pure healing, which has been agreed on by most people in this thread. Also, it would be pretty much impossible for channeling to NOT beat smiting, as nerfed all to hell as it is.

But heal monks never go PURE healing. Divine favor is there backing them up. Spawning isn't really helping a resto rit at all.

I dunno about your comparison to smiting. Often times I run a triple smite monk team when using heroes, and they destroy anything I lock them onto in a matter of seconds.

Everyone drools over ancestor's and splinter and whatnot, but these require mobs to stay close. In day to day pvp, this isn't happening for me. What I see happen is mobs start close, scatter, melee come in and hit my monks, my monks scatter, rest of team scatters (despite flags), etc.

Not to mention that smiting is not resisted by the majority of pve elements (and in many cases, will do double damage), while channeling is lightning damage, and gets reduced by armor.

I feel smiting is superior in just about every way. Sure, a channeling rit can drop a decent spike, I've played the channeling bomber in pvp, it's fun. But for regular pve, smiting wins. It's single target based with a small aoe on SoJ which is great.

My hero builds are:
[signet of judgment][bane signet][spear of light][banish][ancestor's rage][splinter weapon][smite condition][smite hex]

[signet of judgment][bane signet][castigation signet][spear of light][reversal of damage][judge's insight][mantra of inscriptions][smite hex]

[signet of judgment][bane signet][castigation signet][leech signet][spear of light][mantra of inscriptions][smite condition][smite hex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Menace

The other great thing about rits is the ability to dual spec without any problems. A healing monk without points in divine favor suffers a great disadvantage, and likewise for a prot monk. A rit could easily dual spec 9 prot and 12 resto and use it more effectively with any of the energy management skills, even with relatively little investment into spawning.

And here's my problem with rits. Here's what I think people are trying to say...
There's no point in playing a Rit Primary. Ooooh, so you get the +1 from the headpiece and some runes. Still doesn't make it worth it. Spawning is a joke.

If your spirit gets attacked, it's really not going to help that it has 50% more hp. It's a level 9 spirit. It's toast if someone is intent on taking it out.

Often times in pve, spirits are prime targets being that their low levels seem to increase the mob's desire to want to kill it.

I'd rather have a necro/rit healer so he has obscene amounts of energy to heal with. Or an ele/rit, again, for the obscene energy. Ranger/rits perform just as well as rit/rangers in the splinter/barrage dept. the damage bump from 12 to 16 channeling isn't impressive enough to make me go "ok, ok, time to make a pve rit and level it up for some end game killing".

The rit's primary attribute needs to be fixed. Right now, it's a dump stat. And that makes me sad.

I've had two level 20 rits (still have them actually, they're storage chars). And really, I'd never take a Rit primary in a team. This isn't me being noobish, I'm just saying that unless it was a guildie or our team was so well built that the last person we added didn't matter, there are PLENTY of other options for me to add to the party aside from a Rit primary.

Some of the rit skills are fun. That's why I even tried to make another Rit and do it again. But they work better as a secondary than a primary.

horseradish · Apr 18, 2008, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

But the problem is that Rits get outclassed by a Boon/Prot.

That's crap. BoonProt has been nerfed to hell. Not to mention Rits are ftw.

Quote:

Heal monks outclass them with divine favor picking up the slack. And now with HB builds, that's pretty much destroyed any comparison.

That's why Rits are SUPPORT healers. in PvP, they support offense and defense at the same time. In PvE, they make a fine monk replacement if there is any shortage.

Pure heal monks are epic fail. Rits at least have Vengeful Weapon, Weapon of Shadow, and Weapon of Warding in the same attribute, not to mention PwK, which is, hands down, the best party heal in the game.

HB is an Elite skill, which is kind of a big deal for Monks. Rits don't need an elite skill to be pretty damn effective. Offering of Spirit is often used (since Spawning Power is not necessary at all. Oh! The advantage of having a crappy Primary!) and is excellent energy management.

Quote:

But heal monks never go PURE healing. Divine favor is there backing them up. Spawning isn't really helping a resto rit at all.

Because of Spawning being weak, Rits are allowed to spec into only two attribute lines and still be godly. I agree with you that Spawning doesn't help, but Resto doesn't need the help.

Quote:

I dunno about your comparison to smiting. Often times I run a triple smite monk team when using heroes, and they destroy anything I lock them onto in a matter of seconds.

Running three offensive heroes of any kind will kill things in seconds...because it's PvE. I don't see your point.

Quote:

Everyone drools over ancestor's and splinter and whatnot, but these require mobs to stay close. In day to day pvp, this isn't happening for me. What I see happen is mobs start close, scatter, melee come in and hit my monks, my monks scatter, rest of team scatters (despite flags), etc.

O RLY? When I cast Splinter and AR on the warrior, i see mobs get wtfpwned. Maybe you're doing it wrong?

Ancestors' is still powerful against one target. Yes Splinter needs adjacent foes, but that's why you don't mindlessly spam it.

Quote:

Not to mention that smiting is not resisted by the majority of pve elements (and in many cases, will do double damage), while channeling is lightning damage, and gets reduced by armor.

I agree, holy damage is not reduced by armor, but the damage is miniscule at best. Only against the Undead will it be powerful, and I don't see many undead around. What "many cases" are you talking about? The DD skills are terrible, and while Channeling also has crappy DDs, it can do a substantial amount of damage with Splinter and Ancestors'. What AoE does Smiting have? Kirins' Wrath and Balth's Aura? The PBAoE of KW, the amount of energy of BA, and the long recharges of both make them subpar skills. SoJ is fine, but it's an elite skill with a 20 second recharge.

Quote:

I feel smiting is superior in just about every way. Sure, a channeling rit can drop a decent spike, I've played the channeling er in pvp, it's fun. But for regular pve, smiting wins. It's single target based with a small aoe on SoJ which is great.

In regular PvE, Monks can bring pets and still pwn. -__-!

Quote:

And here's my problem with rits. Here's what I think people are trying to say...
There's no point in playing a Rit Primary. Ooooh, so you get the +1 from the headpiece and some runes. Still doesn't make it worth it. Spawning is a joke.

If your spirit gets attacked, it's really not going to help that it has 50% more hp. It's a level 9 spirit. It's toast if someone is intent on taking it out.

Often times in pve, spirits are prime targets being that their low levels seem to increase the mob's desire to want to kill it.

I'd rather have a necro/rit healer so he has amounts of energy to heal with. Or an ele/rit, again, for the energy. Ranger/rits perform just as well as rit/rangers in the splinter/barrage dept. the damage bump from 12 to 16 channeling isn't impressive enough to make me go "ok, ok, time to make a pve rit and level it up for some end game ".

The rit's primary attribute needs to be fixed. Right now, it's a dump stat. And that makes me sad.

I've had two level 20 rits (still have them actually, they're storage chars). And really, I'd never take a Rit primary in a team. This isn't me being noobish, I'm just saying that unless it was a guildie or our team was so well built that the last person we added didn't matter, there are PLENTY of other options for me to add to the party aside from a Rit primary.

Some of the rit skills are fun. That's why I even tried to make another Rit and do it again. But they work better as a secondary than a primary.

Look at your QQ thread. There are ample enough answers to prove you incorrect.

So in the competition of "best healer" Rits win.

But wait! Whose the best at keeping the party alive? The Monk (duh), simply because of faster, better prots.

MasterSasori · Apr 18, 2008, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

But the problem is that Rits get outclassed by a Boon/Prot. Heal monks outclass them with divine favor picking up the slack. And now with HB builds, that's pretty much destroyed any comparison.

Why would you run a Boon/Prot build when you can go WoH hybrid? In addition how is a HB monk more effective than a restor rit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

But heal monks never go PURE healing. Divine favor is there backing them up. Spawning isn't really helping a resto rit at all.

A monk that doesn't go pure healing is called a hybrid (duh). Spawning lengthens weapon spells and raises hp of spirits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Everyone drools over ancestor's and splinter and whatnot, but these require mobs to stay close. In day to day pvp, this isn't happening for me. What I see happen is mobs start close, scatter, melee come in and hit my monks, my monks scatter, rest of team scatters (despite flags), etc.

Ummm, use splinter when mob is close and not when they're far apart? Use splinter at the right time, especially when a member is getting ganked by more than 1 melee opponent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Not to mention that smiting is not resisted by the majority of pve elements (and in many cases, will do double damage), while channeling is lightning damage, and gets reduced by armor.

If I wanted to do damage, I wouldn't be using a smiting monk nor a channeling rit.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

I feel smiting is superior in just about every way. Sure, a channeling rit can drop a decent spike, I've played the channeling bomber in pvp, it's fun. But for regular pve, smiting wins. It's single target based with a small aoe on SoJ which is great.

Channel bomb rits are incredibly predictable and are a terrible choice when PvPing with rits. Once again if you're going smiting for monks in PvE, you're competing against characters that will do what you do except far far far better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

And here's my problem with rits. Here's what I think people are trying to say...
There's no point in playing a Rit Primary. Ooooh, so you get the +1 from the headpiece and some runes. Still doesn't make it worth it.

Name a character or give a build that can give the support a rit does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Often times in pve, spirits are prime targets being that their low levels seem to increase the mob's desire to want to kill it.

Many spirits have a large range of effect and you should cast it out of the way's harm which is an incredibly easy thing to do thanks to its range. At times, the death of the spirit is actually favorable eg. Life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

I'd rather have a necro/rit healer so he has obscene amounts of energy to heal with. Or an ele/rit, again, for the obscene energy. Ranger/rits perform just as well as rit/rangers in the splinter/barrage dept. the damage bump from 12 to 16 channeling isn't impressive enough to make me go "ok, ok, time to make a pve rit and level it up for some end game killing".

You invite a MONK for healing/prot but run a N/Rt for heros cuz heros have the intelligence and emanagement of a goldfish. E/Rt shouldn't be spamming weapon spells and the bar is too cramped in the first place. If R/Rt performs just as well as Rt/R, then there is not reason why not to run either in equal amounts in PvE is there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

I've had two level 20 rits (still have them actually, they're storage chars). And really, I'd never take a Rit primary in a team. This isn't me being noobish, I'm just saying that unless it was a guildie or our team was so well built that the last person we added didn't matter, there are PLENTY of other options for me to add to the party aside from a Rit primary.

If you're adamant about how rits are terrible, that's all you'll ever see.