Curse

ajc2123 · Dec 12, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

So there was a Rt MM before, but with the new update to [Aura of the Lich] I think the rt has the most opportunity with it and not the Necro due to a couple of skills. However I am tempted to say the good ol N/rt MM is still better but...I dunno. What do you guys think?

Here is a sample build with 14 spawning and 12 death
[Aura of the Lich][Boon of Creation][Explosive Growth][Animate Bone Minions][Blood of the Master][Death Nova][Infuse Condition][Resurrection Signet]

Pros: Massive damage + health + energy if using lich at the right time (lots of corpses?)
Spawning power health, even though its not that much.
Hero's spamming Death nova are always good.
Others?

Cons: Minions themselves wont do as much damage with lower levels
Not sure if hero's use Lich in opportune times.
Lack of Channeling spells like [Splinter Weapon][Ancestors Rage], but can be used on another character.
Others?

What is your opinion? For heros and humans

Carboplatin · Dec 12, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

only downside is inorder for the [aura of the lich] and [explosive growth] combo to do its job, half the group has to be dead already.

but still a fun combo.

SirSporks · Dec 12, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

the point of going with rt/n for a mm is to make them do there damage when you summon them or when they die. The point of a N/any MM is to have a hearty group of body blockers that deal modest damage.

I personally like Rt/N better for faster damage in a phys heavy group. In a caster heavy group i would rather have the meat shield to hide behind.

really depends on your play style, but i like the Rt primary for a MM :-D

The Arching Healer · Dec 12, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

is fun skill for x/n

zwei2stein · Dec 12, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Imho, Dump [Infuse condition] for [Spirit's Gift] and [Blood of The Master] for [Animate Shambling Horror] and you are good to go.

xanarot · Dec 12, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

problem is AotL gives 1 minion/corpse, Animate Bone Minions gives 2/corpse, which causes the use of AotL over ABM to actually reduce the effect of the Rt skills.

The new AotL is a replacement for the old MM elite, jagged bones, since that +1 death magic raises the bone minion's level from 11 to 12 (provided you were using 14 death trough rune/headpiece) along with a free bone horror every recast.

ajc2123 · Dec 12, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by xanarot

problem is AotL gives 1 minion/corpse, Animate Bone Minions gives 2/corpse, which causes the use of AotL over ABM to actually reduce the effect of the Rt skills.

The new AotL is a replacement for the old MM elite, jagged bones, since that +1 death magic raises the bone minion's level from 11 to 12 (provided you were using 14 death trough rune/headpiece) along with a free bone horror every recast.

Yes, however, in areas like the canthan mission with 2 teams in the city (i forgot its name) where there are abundant corpses, I could see this skill being at the top of its game. Every corpse gets exploited which means a full army of 8 or so minions + massive explosion/health/energy gain. I dunno. In places with lots of corpses I think it would be Ideal, but....I dunno.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 12, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Last night I made a different build:

[Aura of the Lich][Animate Bone Minion][Explosive Growth][Spirit's Gift][Boon of Creation][Weapon of Shadow][Death Nova][Death Pact Signet]

Death: 12
Spawning: 12+1+1
Restoration: 3+1

Reasoning for the skills that are not in the OP's build:
[Spirit's Gift] gives party healing (if nearby enemies)
[Weapon of Shadow] is the perfect bane for attackers on a non-16 Death MM, can be switched with [Warmonger's Weapon] when dealing with a lot of casters.
[Death Pact Signet], obvious, a perma rez.

Shadowmere · Dec 12, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

the new AotL is definetly good for Rt/N but as has been said unless there's a lot of corpses and still living foes it probably won't be quite as useful as the old one.

Alternatively I see AotL being useful for N/any MMs due to the ability to get an army going much faster (and the fact that you can summon one without a corpse)

Ironicly however, I've heard [signet of ghostly might] affects minions now. If it's not a bug/dosen't get fixed we'll have Rits using necro elites and Necros using Rit elites

ajc2123 · Dec 12, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

I never give my hero's a perma rez, only because It's much easier If I carry one. It's just a lot easier for me to run away then flag hero's away.

Also Resurrection signet is and always has been the best rez to get right back into the battle in my opinion. Cept for maybe sunspear rebirth sig, which takes up a pve slot however.

But I will absolutely give it spirits gift now. I don't know how i missed that the first time around. Coupled with my healers dwaynas sorrow, it should make an interesting pair.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 12, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I'd say Unyeilding Aura with the literally 0 cast rez is the best to get back into the fight. Especially on heroes (which maintain it so more healing while it's on them too). But that takes up a elite slot and is for monk, so there are downsides. But Resurrection signet also has downsides.

Grey_Ghost · Dec 12, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmere

Ironicly however, I've heard [signet of ghostly might] affects minions now. If it's not a bug/dosen't get fixed we'll have Rits using necro elites and Necros using Rit elites

If only they would move that to Spawning Power and intentionally allow it to effect "summoned creatures"... that would be quite nice.

zwei2stein · Dec 12, 2008, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey_Ghost

If only they would move that to Spawning Power and intentionally allow it to effect "summoned creatures"... that would be quite nice.

As communing, it could be used by N/Rt MM at ~10 spec as easier to use and less suicidal (= hero-usable) version of OoU.

ajc2123 · Dec 12, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

I'd say Unyeilding Aura with the literally 0 cast rez is the best to get back into the fight. Especially on heroes (which maintain it so more healing while it's on them too). But that takes up a elite slot and is for monk, so there are downsides. But Resurrection signet also has downsides.

Right...I forgot about that. I lied, This AND Rez signet (not on the same bar!) are the best rezzes imo. I use unyeilding on a hero and haven't regreted it ever. Although thats the only rez my monks EVER get.

I played that build in a mission with an EXTREME amount of corpses. It's ok. But honestly, unless you are loaded with a shitload of corpses in a single area, I still think jagged bomber is more effective. I guess my Xandra will need something else to focus on.

Oh an BTW, hero's cast it like any other summon, they wait for a corpse, they don't wait for multiple corpses. So that further limits its ability unless, like stated before, lots of corpses. Like Vizunah square.

Nightow · Dec 12, 2008, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

...So that further limits its ability unless, like stated before, lots of corpses. Like Vizunah square.

Only issue with this I see is where you start to use up too many corpses.

At 12+1 DM, you can only control 8 minions (kind of makes the +1 from AotL pointless IMO) but let's say you have over 7 corpses within range. In the case of Viz Square, you could have well over 10 corpses which can be used not only for minions but also for creating wells. As the corpses start to build up, you'll soon start wasting more and more.

In the end, I'd probably go with something like Azazel The Assassin's build (sans res and maybe the weapon spells) but, I'd be sure to micro AotL and try to use it when it would be most efficient.

Grey_Ghost · Dec 12, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

As communing, it could be used by N/Rt MM at ~10 spec as easier to use and less suicidal (= hero-usable) version of OoU.

Which is why I assume they want it to be spirit only. My wishy way would be a boon to the Rt/N with minions.

Nightow · Dec 12, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey_Ghost

If only they would move that to Spawning Power and intentionally allow it to effect "summoned creatures"... that would be quite nice.

Move WoA to spawning first please!
[Spirit's Strength]

ajc2123 · Dec 12, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Only issue with this I see is where you start to use up too many corpses.

At 12+1 DM, you can only control 8 minions (kind of makes the +1 from AotL pointless IMO) but let's say you have over 7 corpses within range. In the case of Viz Square, you could have well over 10 corpses which can be used not only for minions but also for creating wells. As the corpses start to build up, you'll soon start wasting more and more.

In the end, I'd probably go with something like Azazel The Assassin's build (sans res and maybe the weapon spells) but, I'd be sure to micro AotL and try to use it when it would be most efficient.

The way it is hindered, is that the build focuses on huge aoe Damage from corpses and AotL, which means if theres only one corpse, its not going to be effective. However if there are say 10 corpses, thats 10 AoE damages PLUS the health and energy gained from the other rit skill.

The fact that the hero uses it as soon as they can (provided tehres a corpse, otherwise they wont even summon 1 horror) means that you could be using up minions just as fast as the older one with just the one summon, making it no more effective.

Bargamer · Dec 13, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

With my modified Sabway, including multiple copies of Death Nova, and two "MMs", this should own in Vizunah Square. Remember that when you go over your Minion Cap with an Animate or other spell, the oldest minions are force-killed first, so if they all have Death Nova on...