Curse

Iuris · Mar 01, 2010, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Short summation: potential of Ritual lord, Shelter, Union, Armor of unfeeling and Summon spirits skill.

I did some quick maths, and maybe this Ritual lord business could be a replacement for the Imbagon. Provided there's an appropriate supply of energy available...

PLEASE CHECK MY MATHS! I can't test this at work...

OK, so, Ritual lord now offers a boost of 4 to all Rt attributes. This actually has to be taken into effect since it boosts the spirits created significantly, since it boosts both spawning power and the spirit's attribute.

Situation 1 - unenhanced : 12 spawning, 12 communing (attributes easily achieved).

Shelter: 296 health, lose 51 health per ability activation, 26 with Armor of Unfeeling. 6/12 uses by my maths.

Union: 296 health, lose 15 health per ability activation, 8 with Armor of Unfeeling, 19/37 uses

However, with Ritual lord active, spirits go quite a bit up. Attributes are 16 now for both Spawning and Communing, making spirit level 13 and adding more health:

Shelter: 426 health, lose 43 health per ability activation, 22 with Armor of Unfeeling. 10/20 uses.

Union: 426 health, lose 15 health per ability activation, 8 with Armor of Unfeeling, 29/54 uses

Not so much of an effect. But if we go all out and use two superior runes... We get attributes of one 20 (headpiece) and one 19 (second rune). Putting the headpiece into commining, the maths should go:

Shelter: 563 health, lose 35 health per ability activation, 18 with Armor of Unfeeling. 16/32 uses.

Union: 563 health, lose 15 health per ability activation, 8 with Armor of Unfeeling, 37/71 uses (=1065 damage prevented with AoU)

Now, with Summon spirit, we can provide the spirits with say 81 health every 5 seconds. That's 5 shelters and 11 unions per 5 seconds, with a substantial buffer to cast them in, so maybe some healing can actually be done. All we need is the energy to fuel this thirsty machine. So, could it be enough to be worth it?

P.S. Soul twisting's numbers should be approximately at the second situation. Energy is no longer an issue, and spirits recharge instantly, but these are 5 second cast spirits and ritual lord's effects are roughly half higher.

Olle · Mar 01, 2010, 02:01 PM // 14:01

From what i read, this has some potential.. Need to test it on My rit when i come home..
Great prot in PvE ...

Demo · Mar 01, 2010, 02:31 PM // 14:31

I wouldnt spend 150 health on sup runes.. if you just use minor runes you should still get 18 in one and 17 in the other

Iuris · Mar 01, 2010, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Well, the idea is that you're under the effects of Shelter and Union all/most of the time, so low health is supposed to be good

Psirdark · Mar 01, 2010, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Rt Lord works as replacement for Imbagon. Our guild has tested as part of DoA HM Balanced group. I was not part of the group; however, I will probably continue refinement of the Rt build. They achieved 15min Gloom so I was told.

Ginger Hunter · Mar 01, 2010, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Armour of unfeeling doesn't affect shelter as shelter "loses life" and doesn't take damage each time it triggers. Although armour of unfeeling does affect union and displacement.

Another point to mention is that they all affect minions which means they are often wasted.

Abedeus · Mar 01, 2010, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ginger Hunter

Armour of unfeeling doesn't affect shelter as shelter "loses life" and doesn't take damage each time it triggers. Although armour of unfeeling does affect union and displacement.

Another point to mention is that they all affect minions which means they are often wasted.

Bzzt. Armor of Unfeeling works on Shelter. Check your info before you post. Yes, it "loses life", but it actually treats it as damage.

But yeah, minions + Shelter/Union is a huge waste.

Ginger Hunter · Mar 01, 2010, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Bzzt. Armor of Unfeeling works on Shelter. Check your info before you post. Yes, it "loses life", but it actually treats it as damage.

But yeah, minions + Shelter/Union is a huge waste.

Took it straight from wiki tbh. Ill check it out in-game in a second.

EDIT: Just tested it at the on the isle of the nameless. 12 communing, no armour.

Without AoU, shelter trigged 4 times before it died.
With AoU shelter triggered 8 times before it died.

Guess I was wrong :P

Iuris · Mar 01, 2010, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Yeah, I kinda didn't know that until today, either. Buying a new set of armor for the new build now, some testing is in order soon

spirit of defeat · Mar 01, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Ritual lord doesn't boost attributes in this way......
It boost the attribute of the NEXT skill, not a constant effect.
So it doesn't boost the SP of the ritual.
so communing could be 20 (12+1+3+4) but SP is max 15(12+3)

I'm not sure wich i would prefer ST or RL....
ST will let you cast the spirit's every 15 sec(ST recharge) And more energy.

Note to all, Spirit Gift also heals spirit's, so it will help spirit's last longer.

FoxBat · Mar 01, 2010, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

It boost the attribute of the NEXT skill, not a constant effect.
So it doesn't boost the SP of the ritual.

Edit: tested with agony on Master of Damage, whatever spirit's english, he's right. Ritual Lord does not buff Spawning power for the spirit's health.

Chthon · Mar 01, 2010, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

Ritual lord doesn't boost attributes in this way......
It boost the attribute of the NEXT skill, not a constant effect.
So it doesn't boost the SP of the ritual.

Uh, what?

From the plain English of the skill text, I would think that both Communing and Spawning would be boosted by 4 for the next ritual.

Have you tested this?

Axel Zinfandel · Mar 01, 2010, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Trouble is, even with all the attribute boosts and the like, Soul Twisting might still be better. The energy reduction of spirits is very useful, and It instantly recharges your spirits. Recharge wise, you're looking at about a 15 second window using Soul Twisting, and about 20~ with spirits using Ritual Lord.

So, although Ritual Lord looks like it'd be better, it might just come up short in most cases. Sure, your spirits can take a bit more with Ritual Lord, but Soul Twisting is a little big more efficient on the recharge factor. It depends on what you plan on doing I suppose. If you plan on keeping your spirits up for as long as you possibly can, than Ritual Lord.
If you want to focus on having new spirits readily usable when your current ones die, than Soul Twisting is the way to go.

That's not taking into account ST's energy management too. It + Boon of Creation, and your done.

spirit of defeat · Mar 01, 2010, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Uh, what?

From the plain English of the skill text, I would think that both Communing and Spawning would be boosted by 4 for the next ritual.

Have you tested this?

You made me doubt :P
no i haven't tested it.

EDIT:
I have tested it. It only boost the skill attribute.

[email protected] [email protected] I put on a +4 resto hat (so total 16) and casted Weapon of warding. it lasted 11~12 seconds.
then i but the hat off and cast Rt then WOW it lasted just as long.
If SP would be increased to 16 it would last 13 sec. counted multiple times to be sure

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 01, 2010, 09:52 PM // 21:52

I can keep up Union and Shelter more or less permanently with Soul Twisting, and Displacement for half the time. AoU isn't even really required, nor Summon Spirits.

Provided, of course, proper pulling is used.

Monks are usually happy to see my skill bar since it means they're saved the bother of playing well and can just redbar.

That said, I might try Ritual Lord later; I sort of avoided it after trying it with offensive spirits.

Iuris · Mar 01, 2010, 10:57 PM // 22:57

I'll have to test this about not affecting spawning power.

However, I have managed to test the core Ritual lord + Shelter + Unity + Displacement, and survivability increases are significant. Energy management was signet of creation and boon of creation, and it was sufficent to feed even summon spirits mostly on recharge.

EDIT: checked. Spawning power attribute is increased in the characteristic display (actually listed as 19 before casting). If it doesn't actually work, it's a bug. Can't think of a way to test actual amount of life on the spirit yet, maybe something over on the isles might help.

Chthon · Mar 02, 2010, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

I'll have to test this about not affecting spawning power.

However, I have managed to test the core Ritual lord + Shelter + Unity + Displacement, and survivability increases are significant. Energy management was signet of creation and boon of creation, and it was sufficent to feed even summon spirits mostly on recharge.

EDIT: checked. Spawning power attribute is increased in the characteristic display (actually listed as 19 before casting). If it doesn't actually work, it's a bug. Can't think of a way to test actual amount of life on the spirit yet, maybe something over on the isles might help.

Rejuvenation and a vampiric weapon.

Bewn · Mar 02, 2010, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Rejuvenation and a vampiric weapon.

I actually tested this a couple of minutes ago and Spawning Power does not get increased by Ritual Lord
I specced 13 in Spawning Power, 1 in Resto and counted the number of pulses until the spirit died off.
Then I did the same with 13 in Spawning, 5 in Resto but without using Ritual Lord and the number of pulses was exactly the same

Iuris · Mar 02, 2010, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Of course, good ideas pop up only at 1AM...

A good way to test it would be to use union, which always loses 15 health per activation, and see how many activations it survives. I tried yesterday (OK, today...) and I think I got more hits with enhanced union, 20 vs 24, but since I didn't bring additional healing, I got killed early. Didn't have time to test again, plan to do so in the afternoon.

Anyway, one thing soul twisting may have as an advantage is that it should be hero proof, which ritual lord certainly isn't at the moment...

Silicon Based · Mar 02, 2010, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Rit Lord DOES increase all of your attributes
evidence look into your attribute window whilst you cast RL and notice that ALL your rit attributes are increased:

Before RL:

before RL
comm: 13
spawn: 16

After RL has been cast and before the next skill:

After RL
comm: 17
chan: 4
resto: 4
spawn: 20

So the spirits are summoned at 17 comm and 20 SP