Curse

Th Fooster · Apr 16, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

its clear to me that a mesmer is hands down the best interuptor.
i dont just say that because of one "cool skill".
let look at the overall picture. rangers have savage shot. choking gas. distracting shot. punishing shot. broad head arrow. and a few others that interupt under the right condtions. all of wiech require 2 things. 1) a bow.2)line of site, or LoS. now LoS is much easier to adapt to and over come.
hide around a corner..blind ... or stances and enchantments that can make you block. ok ok ok.... seeking arrows can deal with that last one.(IF you dont get interupted putting that prep up)Ok. you get my point. Even when played properly an ranger can be dealt with by positioning, blinding, hexing stances, and the list goes on... mantra of resolve,, glyph of concentration, hell even pacifism!
Now if your thinkin "yea but 1v1 my choking gas would own your monk in teh face" i say well... not necesarily. in any case 1v1 ranger vs mesmer.. lets look the mesmer.
sofer target yes. BUT one of the mesmers skills dont actualy interupt, and will go right through mantra of resolve and glyph o concentration.You guessed it PD. read it. Phsyicic distraction DIABLES the skill being used. it does not interupt. it disables it. and you dont need line of sight for it.
rangers have nothing that resembles that. power block is another one.
that whil shut down everythin of the same attribute. and once again ...no LoS needed.. it dont matter if you are blind. and then ther is the all out nooby skill blackout.when a mesmer FAILS at shutting down a good monk.. they cheap out and hit you with blackout.rangers cant shut down your entire skill bar.

now looking at the advantages of both professions... i think my point is clear if your porpose is to shut down, mesmers are far more supirior. ask any caster the question:"given a choice what would you rather have starting at you trying to shut you down a mesmer or a ranger" and a they will answer somthing like this."ranger.it takes a GOOD ranger to shut me down effectivley but even a BAD mesmer can just hit blackout, or shame,(and the list goes on)

now here is the thing... its the PLAYER more than the bar. its the player more than the profesion.
now about heros.. if i need shut down. i take norgu.power flux and stuff set him on agressive and he willl single handedly shutdown half the map if he has 8 interupts on his bar. Pyre however... still jsut stands there trying to shoot through a wall or around a conrer.a human would at least move. so i rest my case. a bad mesmer is more effective than a good ranger FOR SHUT DOWN.

Tyla · Apr 16, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Th Fooster

sofer target yes. BUT one of the mesmers skills dont actualy interupt, and will go right through mantra of resolve and glyph o concentration.You guessed it PD. read it. Phsyicic distraction DIABLES the skill being used. it does not interupt. it disables it. and you dont need line of sight for it.

And let's compare it to D-Shot.
Not elite, costs less energy, longer disable.
Then Magebane? Unblockable and less recharge.(Still not better than D-Shot, though.)

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rangers cant shut down your entire skill bar.

Blackout at 3 Domination Magic is 3 second full bar shutdown. It's also a touch skill and effected by Expertise. Rangers also have things, like Crippling Shot to be able to own the majority of the positioning.

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now looking at the advantages of both professions... i think my point is clear if your porpose is to shut down, mesmers are far more supirior. ask any caster the question:"given a choice what would you rather have starting at you trying to shut you down a mesmer or a ranger" and a they will answer somthing like this."ranger.it takes a GOOD ranger to shut me down effectivley but even a BAD mesmer can just hit blackout, or shame,(and the list goes on)

You're forgetting the high armour, and Expertise in general. Shame can be casted through with a low energy set and switch to a high energy set to recast if you want. Maybe best when you're just a little out of energy though.

Mesmers CAN NOT manipulate positioning half as easy as a Ranger can.

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now here is the thing... its the PLAYER more than the bar. its the player more than the profesion.
now about heros.. if i need shut down. i take norgu.power flux and stuff set him on agressive and he willl single handedly shutdown half the map if he has 8 interupts on his bar. Pyre however... still jsut stands there trying to shoot through a wall or around a conrer.a human would at least move. so i rest my case. a bad mesmer is more effective than a good ranger FOR SHUT DOWN.

Heroes have bad AI anyway. And either way, on positioning, there are nifty little things called "flags".

Off-topic -- Stay in school. Your grammar, all in all is absolutely terrible.

Warskull · Apr 16, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Ranger, no contest.

Rangers can do damage while interrupting (via posion), have more spammable interrupts, more flexible interrupts (hits more than spells which is actually pretty big in PvE), has easy access to daze, has easy access to AoE interrupts (choking gas is pretty awesome vs certain caster mobs), and are a bit more durable character in general.

Rangers are about quantity of interrupt while mesmers are about quality. Mesmers hit with a power leak, power block, or some shutdown interrupt that not only stops a skill but hurts a team at a key moment. Awesome in PvP, not as useful in PvE where you have to stop 4 different dryders from getting off met shower. The amazing control and shutdown of mesmer just isn't as desirable in PvE. The big PvE mesmer interrupts would be Psychic distration and power spike.

Longasc · Apr 16, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Blubb, I wanted to say something similar, I just agree to Warskull. BHA, Distracting Shot, Savage Shot are just more readily available.

As a Mesmer in PvE, I would go Signet of Illusions, Clumsiness, Wandering Eye and Empathy e.g.. Illusion instead of Domination. Interrupts should be left to the Rangers.

DarkSpirit · Apr 16, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

And let's compare it to D-Shot.
Not elite, costs less energy, longer disable.

Mesmers have Power Block. But if having something like DShot is that important to you, then a mesmer can always use Signet of Distraction in this build which costs 0 energy to cast and disables a skill up to 21s (more with higher points in Domination) for the build:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...10&postcount=3

...which incidentally also grants the mesmer 89 armor (more physical armor than a typical ranger), -2 physical damage, and works even on a hero mesmer. A human mesmer can do even better with a more versatile skill bar. If I want to pump even more interrupts into the build, I can also fit in [Leech Signet] (although heroes only use that for interrupting spells) and [Signet of Disruption].

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Blackout at 3 Domination Magic is 3 second full bar shutdown. It's also a touch skill and effected by Expertise. Rangers also have things, like Crippling Shot to be able to own the majority of the positioning.

Blackout is a Dom skill and with runes, mesmers can have a longer and more effective blackout than rangers can.

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You're forgetting the high armour, and Expertise in general.[/quote Shame can be casted through with a low energy set and switch to a high energy set to recast if you want. Maybe best when you're just a little out of energy though.

Mesmers CAN NOT manipulate positioning half as easy as a Ranger can.

Heroes have bad AI anyway. And either way, on positioning, there are nifty little things called "flags".

Off-topic -- Stay in school. Your grammar, all in all is absolutely terrible.

Rangers dont always have higher armor than mesmers and Expertise does not bring down the energy cost of spells. Flags require micro-management when the battle situation is changing and I still dont know why mesmers cannot change positions as easy as a ranger. Flags can be used for both mesmer as well as ranger heroes. My mesmer hero manipulates position just fine by hiding behind a rock when fighting ranger monsters.

And yes, monster and hero/hench AI cannot detect obstacles so they would fire continuously at a rock even if it blocks their target, unless you manually re-position them each time.

Tyla · Apr 16, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

snip.

D-Shot has no requirements for a decent disable. It also triggers things such as Barbs, Mark of Pain ect.
It can also effect any skill.

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Blackout is a Dom skill and with runes, mesmers can have a longer and more effective blackout than rangers can.

That wasn't my point. A small investment in Domination Magic makes Blackout a half decent full-bar shutdown. Alot can happen in those 3 seconds, and having a minimal attribution for a decent all-skill downtime for 4 energy is pure /win.

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Rangers dont always have higher armor than mesmers and Expertise does not bring down the energy cost of spells. Flags require micro-management when the battle situation is changing and I still dont why mesmers cannot change positions as easy as a ranger. Flags can be used for both mesmer as well as ranger heroes.

Yet with Mesmers you need to sacrifice your insignia slots you can use for +Health. A shield set isn't needed in PvE, but handy.

I'm aware of Expertise not effecting spells, aswell. And Blackout is a skill.
And yeah, the reason I mentioned flags is because he mentioned line-of-sight.
Either way, that's hardly a downfall. Good positioning = /win.

And I'll comment on your bar, shall I?
It doesn't do much but: Subpar damage, a generally weak Hex/Condi removal, all mainly fueling an interrupt.

DarkSpirit · Apr 16, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

D-Shot has no requirements for a decent disable. It also triggers things such as Barbs, Mark of Pain ect.
It can also effect any skill.

What's your point? A MM with fiends would trigger Barbs, and Mark of Pain much better than a single DShot.

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That wasn't my point. A small investment in Domination Magic makes Blackout a half decent full-bar shutdown. Alot can happen in those 3 seconds, and having a minimal attribution for a decent all-skill downtime for 4 energy is pure /win.

A mesmer can do better with level 14 blackout (6s) and FC to be able to cast another spell while the target is still recharging isn't it?

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Yet with Mesmers you need to sacrifice your insignia slots you can use for +Health. A shield set isn't needed in PvE, but handy.

If you want +health, you can still wear Survivor insignia on your arms and legs and wear Artificer insignia on your body and legging. Also, vitae runes anyone? The configuration flexibility is there.

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Either way, that's hardly a downfall. Good positioning = /win.

My point is good positioning helps the mesmer even more than the ranger. Simply standing behind a rock against a ranger/paragon monster/npc/hero/hench makes it useless unless you keep flagging and re-positioning it.

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It doesn't do much but: Subpar damage, a generally weak Hex/Condi removal, all mainly fueling an interrupt.

Purge Signet is pretty good for a non-elite, ALL conditions and hexes removal skill, especially on a signet-based build that doesn't require much energy in the first place.

And, by the way, armor ignoring damage and knockdown rule in HM.

Coloneh · Apr 16, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

And that is why we have the wiki to explain the areas that primary quests reside in. If you dont complete the campaign and try HM, you wont understand.

alright. this is getting annoying. explain why you think this area is so hard or shut up about it.

I know how wiki works, ive finished eotn and done plenty of HM. I dont recalling anything difficult in the charr area. refresh my memory maybe?

Lordhelmos · Apr 17, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Th Fooster

its clear to me that a mesmer is hands down the best interuptor.
i dont just say that because of one "cool skill".
let look at the overall picture. rangers have savage shot. choking gas. distracting shot. punishing shot. broad head arrow. and a few others that interupt under the right condtions. all of wiech require 2 things. 1) a bow.2)line of site, or LoS. now LoS is much easier to adapt to and over come.
hide around a corner..blind ... or stances and enchantments that can make you block. ok ok ok.... seeking arrows can deal with that last one.(IF you dont get interupted putting that prep up)Ok. you get my point. Even when played properly an ranger can be dealt with by positioning, blinding, hexing stances, and the list goes on... mantra of resolve,, glyph of concentration, hell even pacifism!
Now if your thinkin "yea but 1v1 my choking gas would own your monk in teh face" i say well... not necesarily. in any case 1v1 ranger vs mesmer.. lets look the mesmer.
sofer target yes. BUT one of the mesmers skills dont actualy interupt, and will go right through mantra of resolve and glyph o concentration.You guessed it PD. read it. Phsyicic distraction DIABLES the skill being used. it does not interupt. it disables it. and you dont need line of sight for it.
rangers have nothing that resembles that. power block is another one.
that whil shut down everythin of the same attribute. and once again ...no LoS needed.. it dont matter if you are blind. and then ther is the all out nooby skill blackout.when a mesmer FAILS at shutting down a good monk.. they cheap out and hit you with blackout.rangers cant shut down your entire skill bar.

now looking at the advantages of both professions... i think my point is clear if your porpose is to shut down, mesmers are far more supirior. ask any caster the question:"given a choice what would you rather have starting at you trying to shut you down a mesmer or a ranger" and a they will answer somthing like this."ranger.it takes a GOOD ranger to shut me down effectivley but even a BAD mesmer can just hit blackout, or shame,(and the list goes on)

now here is the thing... its the PLAYER more than the bar. its the player more than the profesion.
now about heros.. if i need shut down. i take norgu.power flux and stuff set him on agressive and he willl single handedly shutdown half the map if he has 8 interupts on his bar. Pyre however... still jsut stands there trying to shoot through a wall or around a conrer.a human would at least move. so i rest my case. a bad mesmer is more effective than a good ranger FOR SHUT DOWN.

Mending Touch pretty much just wtf pwns most of the anti-melee options thrown against a ranger. It takes a good ranger to shutdown? I think a good majority of the ranger interrupters hitting 123 with magebane will disagree with you there.

~

Oh and Dark Spirit, signet interrupts suck. Why? Because there is an inherent .25 delay in signet activation time added to every signet skill. That means that even though signet of disruption, leech signet, etc. say they are .25 second casts; in reality they are actually .5 second casts! Don't believe me? Try it out and see why signet interrupts feel slow. The only half decent one is signet of distraction because it can actually disable for quite a bit of time with a signet based build carrying 5+ sigs. However, you will never hit anything slower than a 1 sec. cast with it. Hitting 3/4 casts like Zb and dismiss with it isn't even a reliable option.

System_Crush · Apr 19, 2008, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

alright. this is getting annoying. explain why you think this area is so hard or shut up about it.

I know how wiki works, ive finished eotn and done plenty of HM. I dont recalling anything difficult in the charr area. refresh my memory maybe?

Maybe he means Charr Flame Shielders, with [[meteor shower] and [[fire storm], unless you are quick with flags they are pretty devastating on heroes/henchies.

=====================================

As for the topic, I believe rangers are better. Why? because the AI is dumb and can't work with the multifunctional properties of memser skills.
[[Psychic Instability] for example is an excellent interrupt when used by a player, heroes however, will save it to interrupt only spells.
[[Web of Disruption] is a handy interruption tool and can be combined with skills that require hexes. Heroes just spamm it like there is no tomorrow and don't even care if their target is using a skill or not.

The only mesmer interrupt that heroes use perfectly is [[Cry of Frustration] (though they can pull off a pretty convincing show with several other ones) hence I was overjoyed that it had been reduced to 10 energy.

So to take full advantage of a heroes ability to interrupt as soon as a skill starts casting, I have them use ranger interrupts, that are a lot more straight forward, even though it dumbs down their ability to interrupt a little because of the flight time of arrows.

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

What's your point? A MM with fiends would trigger Barbs, and Mark of Pain much better than a single DShot.

What's your point? I can still help a tad on the damage side, and I can also take an MM with Fiends myself.

Quote:

A mesmer can do better with level 14 blackout (6s) and FC to be able to cast another spell while the target is still recharging isn't it?

That extra 3 seconds of disable doesn't concern me.
If you're a Mesmer, you have Guilt and Shame aswell.

You've completely lost my point there. I was meaning, minimal investment (3 Dom) gets a half decent disable and is triggered by Expertise.

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If you want +health, you can still wear Survivor insignia on your arms and legs and wear Artificer insignia on your body and legging. Also, vitae runes anyone? The configuration flexibility is there.

Yet I get +health on all my armourpieces.

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My point is good positioning helps the mesmer even more than the ranger. Simply standing behind a rock against a ranger/paragon monster/npc/hero/hench makes it useless unless you keep flagging and re-positioning it.

Yeah, active play is fun.

Quote:

Purge Signet is pretty good for a non-elite, ALL conditions and hexes removal skill, especially on a signet-based build that doesn't require much energy in the first place.

And, by the way, armor ignoring damage and knockdown rule in HM.

100 armour ignoring damage, cute.
I prefer a Barrager. The spam of it equates to more total damage. And SoJ onlu KD's 1 enemy.

DarkSpirit · Apr 19, 2008, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

What's your point? I can still help a tad on the damage side, and I can also take an MM with Fiends myself.

If it is a tad of damage you are worried about, a mesmer can weapon switch to a spear and shield and trigger Mark of Pain and Barbs for that tad of damage too.

Seriously, just leave it to the fiends. They can do a better job with MoP and Barbs than you can.

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Yet I get +health on all my armourpieces.

So you take the health and sacrifice armor. No advantage there.

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100 armour ignoring damage, cute.
I prefer a Barrager. The spam of it equates to more total damage. And SoJ onlu KD's 1 enemy.

It is a 100 armor ignoring, unblockable, unblindable (if there is such a word

), aoe (covers a much larger area than barrage) damage that can be fired behind an obstacle, every 12 seconds.

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

If it is a tad of damage you are worried about, a mesmer can weapon switch to a spear and shield and trigger Mark of Pain and Barbs for that tad of damage too.

Seriously, just leave it to fiends.

When I interrupt I still get more damage than your spear, and interrupt a skill.
That tad of damage should really only be used on skills anyway, and autoattacking can trigger it also...

Quote:

So you take the health and sacrifice armor. No advantage there.

Except +health = defense against armoour-ignoring damage and degen. If I'm in a big "Oshi-- gotta flee and res" time, I can whip out my defensive set.
+Health > +Armour insignias.

Quote:

It is a 100 armor ignoring, unblockable, unblindable (if there is such a word

), aoe (covers a much larger area than barrage) damage that can be fired behind an obstacle, every 12 seconds.

And the damage I throw out via damage all in all is more through the barrage spam.
It doesn't take a genious to move back into line-of-sight.

And besides, wasn't this a discussion between what makes the better INTERRUPTER and not the better DAMAGE DEALER?

DarkSpirit · Apr 19, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

When I interrupt I still get more damage than your spear, and interrupt a skill.
That tad of damage should really only be used on skills anyway, and autoattacking can trigger it also...

Why do I need to auto attack when the fiends are already doing that. Using Mark of Pain and Barbs on the same target is a terrible strategy anyway unless the rest of the mobs have died out. If your MoP target dies before the rest of the mob, then you just wasted your MoP and have to wait another 20s.

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Except +health = defense against armoour-ignoring damage and degen. If I'm in a big "Oshi-- gotta flee and res" time, I can whip out my defensive set.
+Health > +Armour insignias.

There are hardly any huge armor ignoring spikes in PvE. Health reduces each time you are hit and is effected by DP, while armor saves the same amount of health each time.

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And the damage I throw out via damage all in all is more through the barrage spam.
It doesn't take a genious to move back into line-of-sight.

Yeah, active play is fun. While you are spending your time moving back and forth, I am simply hiding behind a wall and dealing all my damages without getting hit by ranger monsters.

Like I said rangers can be configured to interrupt better, through daze, but they lose out on damage if they do that. Mesmers make a more balanced interrupter where damage and interrupts are concerned.

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Why do I need to auto attack when the fiends are already doing that. Using Mark of Pain and Barbs on the same target is a terrible strategy unless the rest of the mobs have died out. If your MoP target dies before the rest of the mob, then you just wasted your MoP and have to wait another 20s.

Because it speeds up the killing via Barbs and MoP.
Every small bit of damage is welcome in my world if it's free, but I don't know about you.

Quote:

There are not many huge armor ignoring spikes in PvE. Health reduces each time you are hit and is effected by DP, while armor saves the same amount of health each time.

Well, health does reduce each time you are hit. Thanks for stating the obvious.
But when you have MORE health, you need to get hit MORE to die.
I prefer whipping out a shield set when I need armour. And anyway, since when are Ranger's even being hit in PvE? I find it very rare.

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Yeah, active play is fun. While you are spending your time moving back and forth, I am simply hiding behind a wall and dealing all my damages without getting hit by ranger monsters.

I barely get hit as a Ranger anyway.

Quote:

Like I said rangers can be configured to interrupt better but they lose out on damage if they do that. Mesmers make a more balanced interrupter where damage is concerned.

Barrage, D-Shot and Savage Shot. Then you have the rest of your bar.
Barrage, although bad, deals more damage than CoF overall.

Oh yeah, Savage can also apply damage itself. Shooting 2 arrows at once is cool.

And outside of PvE skills Mesmers deal an extreme minority of damage.

(P.S -- Can I have proof of Rangers losing out on damage? I fail to see your reasoning behind that.)

DarkSpirit · Apr 19, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Because it speeds up the killing via Barbs and MoP.
Every small bit of damage is welcome in my world if it's free, but I don't know about you.

It doesn't work that way. You should not be using MoP with Barbs on the same target. If you cast Barb+MoP on the SAME target, and that target dies fast, then you just lost the purpose of MoP.

I always cast my MoP on a hardy target at the center of the mob, just wand him to get the fiends on it. I dont try to kill that target fast, instead I make use of it for MoP to kill the mob around it first.

Killing the MoP target fast with Barbs defeats the purpose of casting MoP on it, in the first place. Only after the opportunity to use MoP is over, then you cast barbs on that target since barbs+fiends would kill almost anything too fast for effective use of MoP.

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Well, health does reduce each time you are hit. Thanks for stating the obvious.
But when you have MORE health, you need to get hit MORE to die.

Thanks for stating the obvious. +Armor saves the SAME amount of damage each time, and is not effected by DP.

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I prefer whipping out a shield set when I need armour. And anyway, since when are Ranger's even being hit in PvE? I find it very rare.

You can't wield a bow and attack if you use a shield. While a mesmer can, if she needs to weapon switch to an armor set.

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(P.S -- Can I have proof of Rangers losing out on damage? I fail to see your reasoning behind that.)

The point is, that rangers have more shutdown and when dealing with high armor monsters in HM, armor ignoring damage helps more.

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Thanks for stating the obvious. +Armor saves the SAME amount of damage each time, and is not effected by DP.

So you get DP in PvE at a huge level?
Just because you're bad doesn't mean Survivor Insignias are bad.

Quote:

You can't wield a bow and attack if you use a shield. While a mesmer can, if she needs to weapon switch to an armor set.

Well, as I said, as a Ranger I'm not really attacked.
If I'm going to pull out my shield set, I either: Aggro'd badly, or am playing extremely bad, or my heroes are beyond retarded for that part.

Quote:

The point is, that rangers have more shutdown and when dealing with high armor monsters in HM, armor ignoring damage helps more.

Well I don't really see this. And again, this was a discussion of who was a better interrupter, not a better damage dealer.
Spamming Barrage deals more overall damage than CoF, again.
Only in a huge team of Mesmers does CoF deal damage on a scale like that (Because of the element of an AoE spike.)

DarkSpirit · Apr 19, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

So you get DP in PvE at a huge level?
Just because you're bad doesn't mean Survivor Insignias are bad.

I only said +armor is not affected by DP but +health bonus is, and you need to stoop to personal insults just to try to win an argument? Can't think of any valid counter?

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Well, as I said, as a Ranger I'm not really attacked.
If I'm going to pull out my shield set, I either: Aggro'd badly, or am playing extremely bad, or my heroes are beyond retarded for that part.

And what has that got to do with anything, you still cant shoot while wielding a shield while a mesmer can still attack with a +armor set? That still holds true.

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Uh...all I said was +armor is not affected by DP but +health bonus is, and you need to stoop to personal insults just to try to win an argument? Can't think of any valid counter?

Well you're bringing up DP.
Any serious DP in PvE makes it obvious you're quite a bad player.

Quote:

And what has that got to do with anything, you still cant shoot while wielding a shield while a mesmer can still attack with a +armor set? That still holds true.

My Ranger can attack in a shield set too.

DarkSpirit · Apr 19, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Well you're bringing up DP.
Any serious DP in PvE makes it obvious you're quite a bad player.

So you and your team have never had any DP before in PvE? Really, how is this going to support your claim that +health bonus is an obviously better choice than +armor in all PvE situations? Besides an empty self bragging of your personal skills.

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My Ranger can attack in a shield set too.

So can a mesmer.