Curse

ShaneOfMach · Mar 27, 2011, 06:44 AM // 06:44

I decided to go with a Bow + Beastmaster hybrid.

10 Beastmaster (Superior Rune for +4)
12 Expertise (Minor Rune for +1)
8 Marksmenship (Minor Rune for +1)

I am the Strongest
Asuran Scan
Volley
Enraged Lunge
Predatory/Brutal Strike
Scavenger Strike
Never Rampage Alone
Comfort Animal

I threw in the Asuran Scan due to having Discord Heroes, it can easily be swapped out for another PvE skill like Triple Shot for ultimate Single Target Spike. I threw in a Channelling SoS Ritualist with Splinter Weapon, and he just loves to buff me with it every chance he gets. Also, Enraged Lunge is ridiculous on pets, it pretty much does +100 damage with deep wound, almost guaranteeing anything to die if its below 50% health when hit by it.

Combines the best of Mobbing and Single Target all into one.

Fay Vert · Mar 27, 2011, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneOfMach

I threw in the Asuran Scan due to having Discord Heroes

I don't get it, why?

ShaneOfMach · Mar 27, 2011, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

I don't get it, why?

You need a hex and condition on an enemy for Discord to activate.

Fay Vert · Mar 27, 2011, 11:03 PM // 23:03

I'm just wouldn;t have thought it necessary for the ranger to support discord heroes.

Urcscumug · Mar 28, 2011, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Let me ask you some things, since I've only started playing a Ranger recently.

1) In some of the builds shown here I've seen Lightning Reflexes mixed in with bow attacks. I'm not sure what the point of an IAS is in this case. From what I've seen, you either want to [A] get energy management and Serpent's Quickness and spam bow attacks with a recurve bow (shortest flight time) as fast as recharge allows; or [B] focus on the bow fire itself, which means IAS and shortbow + damage preparation, or flatbow + Read the Winds.

2) Speaking of energy management, it seems to me the Ranger profession is badly in need of some more. It's impossible to play a non-BM through Factions without crossing into other campaigns to pick up skills. Well, I guess you could; limit yourself to maintaining IAS and a preparation, firing the occasional interrupt, and letting the team carry you otherwise... but that's pathetic. There's a reason Zho/Aidan almost never make it among my henchies, I don't want to be like them. :/ And I guess I should be thankful that LR/DS/RtW are core, otherwise you couldn't even do that.

3) Why all the Throw Dirt hate? You start a fight, you got a couple of melee coming for you, what are you supposed to do? Kite? You're no use to your team while you kite. I'd rather let them close in, use Throw Dirt, then for 10 seconds I can simply ignore them while I take out their backline.

4) I've heard the Ranger being described as very versatile. And it's true that some of their unique traits could make for a very interesting class... but in practice the viable builds are extremely limited (condition spammer, bow attack spammer, bow rapid fire, interrupter, beastmaster), and some of them can be done better by other classes. It's sad that my Ranger is more effective with a pair of Zealous daggers than with a bow and doing Ranger stuff. I've been through the entire Ranger skill list, I just don't see it. Is that how it is, should I just put it aside and wait for them to rework the class?

Xiaquin · Mar 28, 2011, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urcscumug

Let me ask you some things, since I've only started playing a Ranger recently.

1) IAS will depend on your build, but don't forget LR will grant a 75% chance to block. There is also a PvE skill, from Eye of the North, that will grant a long extension of stance duration, making it even more attractive.

2) What rank of Expertise do you usually have? If you are running low on energy with basic skills, you need more.

3) TD is more useful in PvP, like a lot of ranger skills. It's long recharge puts a damper on it because PvE engagements are often quick and offer only limited use. It's touch range also means putting yourself in harms way. If there's a group of enemies bunched up, usually they will be taken down quick with other AoE anyway. Besides, weakness condition on a group of physical attackers is a fine substitute blind. There's another skill from Eye of the North that can do that faster than Throw Dirt and is a shout.

4) I don't believe the versatility argument is true. There's certainly nothing wrong with using daggers, scythe or spear (with pet, for example), but I wouldn't hold your breath for a rework. You just have to enjoy the profession to stick with it, or you'll probably become disillusioned enough to re-roll.

Urcscumug · Mar 28, 2011, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

but don't forget LR will grant a 75% chance to block.

There's that, granted. I will take a look at those bars again, see if that's what they were going for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

What rank of Expertise do you usually have? If you are running low on energy with basic skills, you need more.

Unless there's a rank that's gonna give me zero cost, Expertise is not strictly speaking energy management, just cost reduction. Which is nice but runs out eventually. You need skills that actually make energy. Of which there's precious few around.

To answer your question, I don't keep Expertise at a fixed rank, I adjust it depending on the reduction is offers for the current bar. Like, if I have mostly 5e skills on the bar there's no use in running it at 13 instead of 8.

I wasn't decrying the lack of energy management skills as such. The skills are there... it's just that they're in EotN and very few of them. I wish they were more/more creative... and I don't understand what Faction chars were supposed to do before EotN.

I will look into your other suggestions, but as far as going to EotN and picking up skills, that's kind of meh. If I feel the Ranger is underpowered for Factions what chance does it have in EotN? I can always cap stuff on secondary with another char and move it over via tome, but that also feels like a gimmick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

There's certainly nothing wrong with using daggers, scythe or spear (with pet, for example), but I wouldn't hold your breath for a rework.

Like I said, I feel that kind of stuff is best suited to a primary. There's a difference between using secondary weapons because they open up rich new ways of playing (eg. the A), and doing it because your primary is severely limited and you got no choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

You just have to enjoy the profession to stick with it, or you'll probably become disillusioned enough to re-roll.

The thing that irks me is that it's the first primary I try that I feel so cramped in. I'm also running W, Mo, E, A, Rt and D and they have a steady rhythm of constant advancement to them, there always seems to be new stuff to learn and to do. With R, I had to do Nahpui Quarter as /A and I feel like I've peaked already. Love the profession, love the bow/preps/traps stuff, but it feels like the skills are not there.

I don't usually delete chars that I've made the effort to level and equip so I'll probably keep it around (if only for storage), but at this rate it's unlikely to see much play beyond Senji's Corner.

The only other idea I have for salvaging her is to move her over to either Prophecies or Nightfall. Proph goes more smoothly and NF has all the heroes so it might be the change of pace I need to get over the initial dissilusionment.

Xiaquin · Mar 28, 2011, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urcscumug

Unless there's a rank that's gonna give me zero cost, Expertise is not strictly speaking energy management, just cost reduction. Which is nice but runs out eventually. You need skills that actually make energy. Of which there's precious few around.

To answer your question, I don't keep Expertise at a fixed rank, I adjust it depending on the reduction is offers for the current bar. Like, if I have mostly 5e skills on the bar there's no use in running it at 13 instead of 8.

I wasn't decrying the lack of energy management skills as such. The skills are there... it's just that they're in EotN and very few of them. I wish they were more/more creative... and I don't understand what Faction chars were supposed to do before EotN.

Many skills, including 5e, have cool downs that buffer usage so there is time to recover. I'm curious to see one of your complete builds (and mention if you have any energy upgrades on your bow or armor). The only time I've become energy deficient is through copious use of Splinter Weapon (note not a ranger skill), Barrage, Concussion Shot or PvE-only skills. Other means would be through spamming 10e attacks.

If you're dipping into a secondary profession, that's one thing, but you shouldn't normally experience issues. A bow modded with a Zealous bowstring will help, used with IAS and/or multi-arrow attacks.

Quote:

If I feel the Ranger is underpowered for Factions what chance does it have in EotN?

You will gain access to PvE-only skills that improve versatility. One of the most popular is called Ebon Battle Standard of Honor. There was a recent nerf to multiple skills from EotN that have shined a bright light on the ranger's inadequacy, so what you are experiencing is something all primary rangers feel. I encourage you to try all the campaigns and learn all of the skills to experiment further. Myself I've been in a lull, but I currently prefer Beast mastery for general use.

Wenspire · Mar 28, 2011, 08:44 PM // 20:44

13exp is the cutoff point for 5en skills to cost 2en. It would be good to reach i'd you are using mainly 5en skills. A zealous string also helps keep en under control. At 13exp and using a zealous string, your 5en skills cost 1en to use. If you are running barrage, you will usually be gaining en with every shot. Bestween enemy groups, just chamge your bow to a non zealous to regen en faster.

Urcscumug · Mar 29, 2011, 10:30 AM // 10:30

A Zealous string would be a good idea, dunno why I missed that.

Quoting from memory, my current build goes something like this: [Prepared Shot], [Sundering Shot], [Power Shot], [Expert Focus], [Serpent's Quickness], [Throw Dirt], and a couple optionals (interrupt, antidote signet) with a recurve bow. I cast EF and SQ as I go in and then basically spam attacks as fast as I can, alternating with Prepared to regain energy. It can do ~100 DPS when the attacks are charged and go out very quickly one after the other. Expertise at 10+2 (turns out most of them are 10e not 5).

I'm not sure how I could improve the build itself (only the energy). I've re-read the list of bow attacks, I can't see anything much better in terms of dmg/cost/recharge. Sundering/Penetrating do 33-56 dmg depending on foe armor (100-60) and elevation, Power Shot always does the stated damage.

Anybody else lusting after the skills in Keiran's disguise? Now those are nice...

Ic Zero · May 12, 2011, 10:22 AM // 10:22

The needling shot spam build I use:

Marksmanship: 12+1+1
Expertise: 12+1

Savage Shot
Sloth Hunter's Shot or Sundering Attack for more spammability
Penetrating Attack
Needling Shot
Marksman's Wager {E}
"I Am the Strongest!"
Drunken Master
Ebon Battle Standard of Honor